Tempest's Wrath Procedural Question

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

That whole bit about ending their movement within 24 inches confuses me.

 

Does your opponent move his dudes, then when they are done, ended, you see if they are within 24, then what? THEN you make them take a terrain test? Even though they already finished moving? Because that's how the rule seems to be written.

 

OR

 

Do you make your opponent place his finger down where he wants his unit to go, and then say "hold on, that's probably within the Tempest's Wrath Zone, let me measure to see. If it is, you need to take a terrain test first."

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

its more of a dont move here power i think although i dont like the power much. its like the little baby sitting nicely in a giant ring of broken glass and theres dingos/adults with a sweet tooth/wayward storks/and crazy moms all wanting to get close but once again giant ring of broken glass. so its like why bother ill just land over here outside of your 24 inch ring of bs.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

D'oh. I saw that someone responded to the thread and thought I'd be getting an answer. Guess not.

[muadib02]

The power affects skimmers ans jump infantry as such they can move where they will, just if they get inside that 24" bubble they take a dangerous terrain test...since they ignore difficult terrain.

[Silvtalon]

That whole bit about ending their movement within 24 inches confuses me.

 

Does your opponent move his dudes, then when they are done, ended, you see if they are within 24, then what? THEN you make them take a terrain test? Even though they already finished moving? Because that's how the rule seems to be written.

 

OR

 

Do you make your opponent place his finger down where he wants his unit to go, and then say "hold on, that's probably within the Tempest's Wrath Zone, let me measure to see. If it is, you need to take a terrain test first."

 

 

Okay... Page 37 of the codex

Used at the beginning of the rune priests turn. Until the beginning of the runes priest next turn, all enemy skimmers, jetbikes, jump infantry and units deploying by deep strike that finish their move with in 24" of the rune priest treat all terrain, even clear terrain, as both difficult and dangerous.

 

What this means is you inform them you must check there distance from your rune priest to that unit that has moved with in the field effect of your rune priests power. If the model or unit even if its 1 model that is affected by the power considers its movement as if landing in difficult or dangerous terrain. It doesn't effect there movement since they already finished there move but it does affect if a mishap takes place such as one or more models crashing upon landing or moving or if a vehicle becomes immobilized. In some rare cases causes a drop pod to mishap and take a mishap test!

 

The reason why you didn't get an answer right away or properly is due to the wording itself explains itself if you take the time to read it carefully. Although even in my honest opinion the wording itself is some what confusing at first glance. (chuckles)

 

Although This power doesn't mention jet pack infantry such as tau battle suits may not be effectived by this power, so I think there may be an faq on that not sure I have yet to check in the last few months.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

So Silv, just to be perfectly clear:

 

- A power like Murderous Hurricane kicks in before the unit moves, so the unit rolls terrain tests (difficult AND dangerous, if applicable) as normal.

 

- With Tempest Wrath, certain units must take a dangerous terrain test AFTER they finish their move, if they are within range. The units are skimmers, jetnikes, Deep Strikers and jump infantry (which includes jet packs, see pg 52 of the small 40k rule book). That's what you are saying?

 

I guess I have a follow up question. What is the point of Tempest Wrath saying the terrain is difficult? If it merely said dangerous, would the power have any less of an effect? I mean if the power always kicks in after the unit is done moving, and skimmers and the like never have to roll dice to see how far they can move through difficult terrain, since they ignore it as for as movement distance goes, it seems "difficult" is a completely useless word inserted into the Tempest Wrath's rule.

 

Edited to add - Unless jump infantry decide to assault I guess, since they do that on foot. If they moved in the movement phase and triggered TW, then for the rest of their turn they'd have to treat the terrain as difficult and dangerous, meaning they would have to take a dangerous terrain test as they attempt to assault. Assuming the word "move" applies to moving during assault of course. Interestingly, the jump infantry would not have to take the difficult test before assaulting, if they did not move during their movement phase, since TW wouldn't have triggered yet.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

...since they ignore difficult terrain.

 

Yes thank you. I stupidly somehow forgot this rule at first.

[Silvtalon]

So Silv, just to be perfectly clear:

 

- A power like Murderous Hurricane kicks in before the unit moves, so the unit rolls terrain tests (difficult AND dangerous, if applicable) as normal. - With Tempest Wrath, certain units must take a dangerous terrain test AFTER they finish their move, if they are within range. The units are skimmers, jetnikes, Deep Strikers and jump infantry (which includes jet packs, see pg 52 of the small 40k rule book). That's what you are saying?

Murderous Hurricane is used in the rune priests shooting phase not at the beginning of the rune priests turn until the next beginning of the rune priests turn. A slight difference in when you can use the power but its effect is similar but slightly different in all respects in how it works.

 

Page 37.

This power is a psychic shooting attack with a range of 18". The target unit takes 3d6 strength 3 hits with ap -. Place a maker next to the affected unit - Next turn that unit treats all terrain, even clear terrain as both difficult and dangerous.

 

Murderus Hurricane kicks in during the units turn to move thus the unit must make a difficult terrain test before it moves. Once the distance is is rolled and units are moved they must make a dangerous terrain test as well. Unlike Tempest Wrath which kicks in after the unit has moved which is stated in its wording you don't roll for for difficult terrain since you already moved but you do HAVE to take the dangerous terrain test regardless. Its the wording you have to pay attention to.

 

Although be careful using other powers as examples that act in a simulair fasition but do not it can confuse people pretty quickly.

 

I guess I have a follow up question. What is the point of Tempest Wrath saying the terrain is difficult? If it merely said dangerous, would the power have any less of an effect? I mean if the power always kicks in after the unit is done moving, and skimmers and the like never have to roll dice to see how far they can move through difficult terrain, since they ignore it as for as movement distance goes.

 

I think the reasoning behind why they added both difficult and dangerous terrain was to ensure no one could find an excuse not to be effected by the powers. In short find a loop hole to say the power is invalid against there units. Trust me I seen a lot of rules twisting in competitive play to make your eyes roll... =)

 

Edited to add - Unless jump infantry decide to assault I guess, since they do that on foot. If they moved in the movement phase and triggered TW, then for the rest of their turn they'd have to treat the terrain as difficult and dangerous, meaning they would have to take a dangerous terrain test as they attempt to assault. Assuming the word "move" applies to moving during assault of course. Interestingly, the jump infantry would not have to take the difficult test before assaulting, if they did not move during their movement phase, since TW wouldn't have triggered yet

 

They wouldn't be affected by the same power twice in the same turn. Since the power states during there movement phase (only) The effect takes place... Remember the phases? Movement, Shooting, Assault? Last time I remembered assault wasn't the movement phase. ^-^

 

Remember powers can only affect the phase they are said to effect. Same goes for when you can use the power they can only be used during the phase they are allowed to be used in.

 

Any thing else I can help you with in clarifying? Feel free to shoot me a message directly... Be happy to help answer questions.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Apu/Silv did you just do a magic trick? Apu turned into you. Hopefully that wasn't a secret.

 

Anyway:

 

Since the power states during there movement phase (only)

 

1) The power is triggered at the end of their move, and lasts until the Rune Priest's next turn. So if a jump infantry moves and then assaults, and TW was triggered in the movement phase, then TW would still be active in the assault phase, meaning all terrain would be treated as difficult and dangerous as the rule says. Meaning the jump infantry would have to roll both terrain tests (since they stay on the ground to assault).

 

2) The power does not state movement phase only, so even if the jump infantry did not move during the movement phase, one could argue that the movement during the assault phase would trigger TW. (But this time since it was triggered before the assault, the jump infantry would only take a dangerous terrain test).

 

The second point is arguable, the first is not. Unless there is some errata I am unaware of that changes how the rule is written in the codex.

[Silvtalon]

Apu/Silv did you just do a magic trick? Apu turned into you. Hopefully that wasn't a secret.

 

Anyway:

 

Since the power states during there movement phase (only)

 

1) The power is triggered at the end of their move, and lasts until the Rune Priest's next turn. So if a jump infantry moves and then assaults, and TW was triggered in the movement phase, then TW would still be active in the assault phase, meaning all terrain would be treated as difficult and dangerous as the rule says. Meaning the jump infantry would have to roll both terrain tests (since they stay on the ground to assault).

 

2) The power does not state movement phase only, so even if the jump infantry did not move during the movement phase, one could argue that the movement during the assault phase would trigger TW. (But this time since it was triggered before the assault, the jump infantry would only take a dangerous terrain test).

 

The second point is arguable, the first is not. Unless there is some errata I am unaware of that changes how the rule is written in the codex.

 

 

Apu? Sorry I have no idea whom that is.

 

Anyhow I just updated my info on the FAQ for space wolves. It's been a long while since I been there. A bit to long I apologize for slightly inaccurate data I had on file. Below is the link you can use to follow up.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...eWolves_Jan2010

 

Your right it does affect the entirety of the turn for murderous hurricane. So in assault the effects still work as stated in the FAQ talking about murderous hurricane.

 

As for tempest wrath... It does mention in the FAQ that disembarked units may be affected later in the turn. So that would say that the effect will also affect said units during the assault phase to if they chose to assault as well forcing them in the assault to make a difficult terrain test (unless they for some reason have the ability to ignore difficult terrain) and then a dangerous terrain test.

[Fred Johnson the 3rd jr]

Apu? Sorry I have no idea whom that is.

 

Heh. Ok, I guess it was supposed to be a secret that you have two accounts. Kinda silly, but I don't care one way or the other. (For the ones that missed the switcheroo, some Apu42 fellow responded to my post, but then it disappeared. Silv's post then appeared sporting the exact same words).

 

 

In any case, I am glad that I've got this TW thing mostly figured out with everyone's help.

[Silvtalon]

Apu? Sorry I have no idea whom that is.

 

Heh. Ok, I guess it was supposed to be a secret that you have two accounts. Kinda silly, but I don't care one way or the other. (For the ones that missed the switcheroo, some Apu42 fellow responded to my post, but then it disappeared. Silv's post then appeared sporting the exact same words).

 

 

In any case, I am glad that I've got this TW thing mostly figured out with everyone's help.

 

Your more then welcome to have an admin of the site check my IP which they have the ability to do so. Since every post is tagged with Id markers. I give them my permission to do so if they wish. The only warhammer 40k forums I am on is this one and Tau Tactica under the same ID handle. ^-^

 

 

 

Hey there is no I in team.. :devil: We all worked hard to figure it out although the FAQ's defined the outcome and end.