Ladislao Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Does this mean that Horus has spies in the Imperial palace?Did Horus intend to completely purge the world all along? Who is Horus taking advice from? It is said nowhere.. but i had the DISTINCT sensation dorn is the one sending word to horus about the assasionation team..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2510380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
old git Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 Horus, being 2i/c of the whole Imperium, would surely know of the Officio Assassinorum and what they're capable of. It follows that he would suspect they will be deployed against him and take steps to counter their efforts. Nemesis, being a book about assassins, is where we see these machinations at work. Simple as that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2510413 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Protagonist Posted September 12, 2010 Share Posted September 12, 2010 I don't think that it was Dorn who warned Horus. Think further up the line...Emperor. :o He would be the one KNOWING what would happen if Horus wasn't at the head of the heresey. So he warned him, fatherly love and all that. Then Horus calls off the use of assassins, one last nod of respect to his progenitor. My question is more along the lines of, "What kind of elite assassins don't confirm their target before using up their one chance?" I mean, what kind of arguement is "Well, he was wearing Horus' hat so it MUST have been him!" Those are just some weak sauce assassins. :rolleyes: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2510418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Now that is an interesting theory! It makes sense also, probably more so than Dorn himself! Embarrassed I didn't consider it myself, as the signs do point to it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2510973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 See, I had figured that the "spy"was Valdor - If you read A Thousand Sons, when Ahriman drags the Rune Priests soul into the warp during the battle for Prospero he see "the honeyed lies of Horus and the sinister urgings of Constantin Valdor designed to sway Leman Russ to a course of total destruction" And as we all know, the Emperor wanted/needed Magnus back on Terra to sit on the Golden Throne so he wasn't trapped in the palace... I couldn't imagine Dorn being anything but 100% loyal, especially after the Istvaan massacre However, I guess Prospero Burns will doubtless prove me wrong!! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2510998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 Surely Valdor isn't a crook! I so hope not, but that would be a plausible betrayal, in a way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2511034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro_Protagonist Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 See, I had figured that the "spy"was Valdor - If you read A Thousand Sons, when Ahriman drags the Rune Priests soul into the warp during the battle for Prospero he see "the honeyed lies of Horus and the sinister urgings of Constantin Valdor designed to sway Leman Russ to a course of total destruction" It's possible that Validor is one of Horus' spys, but I don't see why he would have needed to warn Horus about the assassination attempt...it was his suggestion! It's possible that Validor is in Horus' pocket though. The sinister urgings you mention were also mentioned in one of the earlier books (can't remember which)...Horus tells one of his Lts that he had people uring Russ to destroy the Thousand Sons, rather than bring them back to the Emperor as he had been ordered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2511051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 13, 2010 Share Posted September 13, 2010 It could be that Valdor hates Astartes, and believes that their slightest corruption warrants utter destruction. He didn't seem big on Dorn, and Dorn certainly didn't seem to like him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2511206 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tharand Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 I still think it was probably Dorn. I don't think the Emperor tipped Horus off because in the end he says something along the lines of, "In the coming war we must use all our weapons". Which implies the use of assassins as being required. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2511861 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted September 15, 2010 Share Posted September 15, 2010 All things considered and speculation aside, I think it is most probable that Malcador is the traitor on Terra. If we look just at Nemesis, we see that Erebus had prior knowledge of the Venemum strike against Horus. How we are not told, but he certainly didn’t divine it from his witch craft, or else he would of also spotted the book’s main plot (which was significantly grander and more of a threat). Maybe we need a Malcador: a Traitor thread? What do people think on this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2513030 Share on other sites More sharing options...
douchie Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 I'd like to know more on the status of the 'lodges' within those legions that remained loyal. We're they secret or did they never take root? I don't think it was Dorn. Yes sure he hated the idea of sneaking around & killing Horus in such a way, but I don't believe he would ever consider opening dialogue with rogue elements. Especially after istavaan. The Emperor? I'm not sure. So far he has acted strangely in certain situations. The whole Magnus thing was a complete hash. Maybe he still thought he could appeal to the Horus he had known pre-heresy? Although if the Emperor is as all knowing as he is made out to be then wouldn't he know it was too late for such things? Malcador - I'm not sure about. He has definitely has something of senator Palpatine about him? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2513548 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrun0riginal Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 I really enjoyed this HH novel, nice and different, not focussing on the SM's, for once. I like the Eversor most of the characters, I didn't really enjoy the little family bits with the Venenum and Vindicare. It was really well done, all in all, I thought. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2531304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clewz Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 I think it was actually the chaos gods tipping Horus off as Erebus does mention that Horus appeared to be listening to some other unknown voices rather than his own. I believe that Erebus wanted Horus as his puppet but things werent going to plan Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2531799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. Bloodhowl Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Though I've just jumped into this, I highly doubt Malcador could be a Traitor given his sacrifice at the end (unless he believes horus will give him rule when the emperor dies...). I've been struck by the idea that is could be Clade Venenum that tip Horus off, as there seems to be no mention of them in the 41st millenium. Perhaps they turned traitor and were destroyed, they're assassin definitely had some conflicting emotions between destroying Horus and not, even if it was because of the Lectitio Divinatatus (spelling?) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2532123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 I've been struck by the idea that is could be Clade Venenum that tip Horus off, as there seems to be no mention of them in the 41st millenium. Perhaps they turned traitor and were destroyed, they're assassin definitely had some conflicting emotions between destroying Horus and not, even if it was because of the Lectitio Divinatatus (spelling?) Sure there was. Read the old 40K Codex books on Assassains. One or both (I'm thinking them both but can't remember off the top of my head) had descriptions of the Temple, mentioning how one of their agents was caught in a warp storm and a hundred years too late to kill his target, instead finding an electoral system of based on anti-Imperial retoric, so killed them all by poisoning their seats when Parliment began. That was an inspired solution... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2532574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 That was an inspired solution... A traitor to the Democracy! Get him! :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2533647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge The Weak Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 I think horus has other intentions, although im curious on how he will make the E see his point of view... But i can bet my lifes earnings that it will be little horus and not horus himself that let the command ships sheilds down during the siege of terra, guilt not tactical genuis... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2535700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaurdian31 Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 I'm thinking it will be one of the Alpha Legion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2536108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 I'm thinking it will be one of the Alpha Legion. Not sure why everyone keeps insisting on the Alpha Legion having anything to do at all with the Battle of Terra; they weren't there. -_- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2536539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Zaku Posted October 14, 2010 Share Posted October 14, 2010 Khestra...that's exactly what they WANT you to believe...j/k, it's too fun to make AL jokes. But onto the topic at hand, I'm sure it was Dorn. Dorn's reasoning as to why Horus shouldn't be assassinated implicates him in a very strong way. That and the fact that he didn't rip out the Assassinorum leader's lungs being another. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210486-discussion-on-nemesis/page/2/#findComment-2536618 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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