BrotherMoses Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 I thought I would start this thread as place for us to discuss iconography as it relates to the Blood Angels chapter and her successors. I think this is important for all space marines especially our chapter which has a reputation for artistry. Here we have a place to talk about existing pieces, such as the 3rd Company banner of Captain Tycho (Orr on a bend gules bloody torn wing displayed) or any other blazon in our codex, or any home made pieces that some of our board members might conjure up. Through open discussion I hope we can achieve greater understanding of marine heraldry, insight into the meanings behind current canon and non-canon pieces, and motivate greater enjoyment out of the creative process of creating blazons for our Space Marines. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
douchie Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Great idea Brother Moses, I'd personally like to add the odd heraldry to certain Sgts & termnators. Inspiriation for this comes from the old Rogue Trader pics I remember seeing as a child & more recently from the Space Hulk re-release. I'm keen to see what people have come up with for the 4th company banner. I'll post some of mine shortly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2506219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 I'm not a fan of the set squad heraldries for each squad so I plan on giving each squad a unique heraldry such as: http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/khromash/basquads.jpg I've also been considering doing some really screwed up Blood Drinkers, by taking the statement about their markings being close to the Ultramarines and then going with the original Mk7 smurf scheme which would give us this: http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/khromash/BloodDrinkersRTUMjpg.jpg http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r155/khromash/BeeDeeVth.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2506264 Share on other sites More sharing options...
R0N1N Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 I like the idea... I'm looking for aexample of a chapter banner for the 4th company. I'm painting my army up as th, but cannot find what the chapter banner should look like, any help would be appreciated Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2506395 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpWalker Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 Great work Vodunius! I'm currently still painting my army, so I haven't started the heraldry, yet. When I do i'll be sure to post 'em. I'm planning on doing a lot of imagery on the banners and tanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2506412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted September 7, 2010 Share Posted September 7, 2010 personally im taking some of the wee bits and expanding on them. like hazard stripes on random models. or taking the squad markings and using them more. for instance the squad one that is yellow with the red blood drop. my sarge for the squad has no knee pad so i painted a yellow stripe up the leg front and painted a row of small blood drops up it. of course being able to do such things is part of the benifit of being a succesor chapter of my own :D but i can see the marines doing such things to their armour. also the space hulk heraldry is great for ideas on such things too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2506544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherMoses Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 I'm looking for aexample of a chapter banner for the 4th company. I'm painting my army up as th, but cannot find what the chapter banner should look like, any help would be appreciated I'm not sure what th is, but I believe I have some incite about a 4th company banner. If you notice, the company numbers seem to share the same blazon. For instance, the 2nd company banner is gules a pale orr. The 3rd company banner is Orr a bend vert. If I remember correctly these are like the bases for the banner and they are the same as our Codex counterparts, the Ultramarines. So if you can find out what the 4th Company blazon is for the Ultramarines, then you have some idea what ours might look like. On a separate note, does anyone have any light to shed on the symbol on the top of our company banners. It looks like a star or billet but its centered above the main symbol. On the 2nd company banner it is a Maltese cross inside of a star/halo/billet. On the 3rd company banner I believe it is a blood drop. I would like to understand the meaning of this piece better than I do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2506830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 The codex 4th company blazon is halved horizontally: top half chapter colours, bottom half company colour. the BA 1st & 2nd use red in place of the company colour and yellow in place of the chapter colour, so if it followed suit it would be yellow over red. Its worth noting however that the Dark Angels company heraldries are also derived from the codex ones. The DA's 4th company has checkered black & white over bone - and the 2nd & 3rd edition codices showed a Blood Angel Captains banner that was the same (the checkered pattern didn't go to the top on the captains banner, but it didn't on the DA Captains banner either). I've always assumed the star thing was a blinged up iron halo (the symbol of leadership) with the top prong artistically chopped off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2507025 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherMoses Posted September 8, 2010 Author Share Posted September 8, 2010 Excellent work Vodunius. I see the checkered pattern on pg 13 of our 3rd edition codex on the back of that Blood Angels Lord. Its argent per fess sable checky a skull grail 3 drops of blood descending. Hmm now lets think about this. Do the Blood Angels use a company colour? I used to think it was the colour of the Blood Drop on the shoulder pad. (Pg 12 3rd ed codex) Now I'm not so sure. A time back I noticed that the banner of Captain Tycho doesn't feature the company colour in the least. At least not if that colour is the blood drop. This would be white or argent for the 3rd Company which isn't found in his blazon at all. The 3rd's blazon is orr a bend vert(green). So do we have official company colours and if so what are they if not the blood drop colour? As for the black and white checks belonging to the 4th Company, I do believe I recall seeing pictures of Leonatos with a black and white checked kneepad in Blood Quest. This may have just been a deviantart rendition of Leonatos though. Can someone who has Blood Quest confirm or deny this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2507297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Lord_Of_Angels Posted September 8, 2010 Share Posted September 8, 2010 Excellent work Vodunius. I see the checkered pattern on pg 13 of our 3rd edition codex on the back of that Blood Angels Lord. Its argent per fess sable checky a skull grail 3 drops of blood descending. Hmm now lets think about this. Do the Blood Angels use a company colour? I used to think it was the colour of the Blood Drop on the shoulder pad. (Pg 12 3rd ed codex) Now I'm not so sure. A time back I noticed that the banner of Captain Tycho doesn't feature the company colour in the least. At least not if that colour is the blood drop. This would be white or argent for the 3rd Company which isn't found in his blazon at all. The 3rd's blazon is orr a bend vert(green). So do we have official company colours and if so what are they if not the blood drop colour? As for the black and white checks belonging to the 4th Company, I do believe I recall seeing pictures of Leonatos with a black and white checked kneepad in Blood Quest. This may have just been a deviantart rendition of Leonatos though. Can someone who has Blood Quest confirm or deny this? Nope, just checked, he has a skull on his right kneepad and thats it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2507340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkfish Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 I've just done some googling on 'Space marine banners'. The first result that comes up is from exlibrismortis.org, an excellent site run by BAbrotheredward ex of the GW Forums. This has a black and white rendition of the first five BA company banners from the very old RT era Space marine paint set. Rather than post a direct picture (I don't want to break any rules), google it and have a look. Obviously, the older banners aren't as ornate as the current GW ones, but I'd imagine that they'd provide a good starting point. As an aside, I do remember reading somewhere that the coloured band on the banner is changed in order to show the Company to which it is attached. I've tried searching for it but haven't found it yet - I'll dig out my old Insignium Astartes and see if it is in there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2507941 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 lookig at the banners in the normal marine dex and then looking at the company names you can see that usually theres a link. like 3rd is scourge of the exenos and there is a genestealers head, 8th are hounour blades and theres a pair of crossed swords. i can see there being some form of similarity with angel banners. 5th are deamon banes so probably sanguinius lobbing some deamons head off,8th are bloodblades so likely crossed swords dripping with blood. either way the 2 banners we do hve show that they have company number not badge. also 4th co uses a winged chalice according to moriars banner... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2508036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 lookig at the banners in the normal marine dex and then looking at the company names you can see that usually theres a link. like 3rd is scourge of the exenos and there is a genestealers head, 8th are hounour blades and theres a pair of crossed swords. i can see there being some form of similarity with angel banners. 5th are deamon banes so probably sanguinius lobbing some deamons head off,8th are bloodblades so likely crossed swords dripping with blood. either way the 2 banners we do hve show that they have company number not badge. also 4th co uses a winged chalice according to moriars banner... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2508037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted September 9, 2010 Share Posted September 9, 2010 my head librarian is going to have a banner thats black with a blue book and a blood drop on it. (keeping it simple cuz i've never tried free hand before) i assume the symbolism there is self evident... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2508088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted September 14, 2010 Share Posted September 14, 2010 Just incase noone noticed due to the generall crappyness of the front cover but there is quite a few banners on it... 3 i particular stand out, one has a chalie with wings,another a strange black wing with 3 blood drops under it, and another that has a chalice with 3 blod drops above it. theres also one on the dread witha skull and crossbones with a blood drop on the orehead with fire along the bottom of the banner. Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2511428 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Salvatore Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Hello Brothers, I have a iconography problem wich I hope some of you will give me an idea how to overcome. So... I found in the very deepest pits of thrice damned bitbox of mine an old, unused plastic banner from the SM command squad sprue and it instantly found it's way on the top of my Furioso who, of course had only homemade-paper print banner. But, here comes trouble---WHAT by the Emperor to put in there? So, I am looking for an ideas about what to freehand on the banner. The dread is an ancient Furioso with blood talons named Morgaris the Wrathful, former member of the 2nd company in wich he now serves in his second life. Thanks for hints! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2513841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Second co banner for most part, fire underneth? company name? own name? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2514160 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherMoses Posted September 17, 2010 Author Share Posted September 17, 2010 I like the symbolism of chalice's for dreadnoughts. As the the cup holds the sacred blood within, so does the metal shell of the dreadnought encase the remains of our fallen heroes. They're good for Sanguinary Priests and/or dreadnoughts in my mind. I trust he's not Death Company? If not. Something that looks wrathful. Orr a sword erect proper aflame tenne(orange). A burning sword to represent his fiery wrath maybe? Maybe you could do it on a chief or a bend. I wouldn't use a pale. You don't want it to be too similar to the company banner. I don't think marine's would let that happen. Company Banners and getting to carry them or use anything like their heraldry is an honor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2514329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt. Salvatore Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I like the symbolism of chalice's for dreadnoughts. As the the cup holds the sacred blood within, so does the metal shell of the dreadnought encase the remains of our fallen heroes. They're good for Sanguinary Priests and/or dreadnoughts in my mind. I trust he's not Death Company? If not. Something that looks wrathful. Orr a sword erect proper aflame tenne(orange). A burning sword to represent his fiery wrath maybe? Maybe you could do it on a chief or a bend. I wouldn't use a pale. You don't want it to be too similar to the company banner. I don't think marine's would let that happen. Company Banners and getting to carry them or use anything like their heraldry is an honor. Rather nice idea with that sword there brother, alsothe chalice is perfect reasoning but luckily, I have a large chalice on the banner top (the chalice icon from Baal sprue), what about a winged claw, like on the second company banner but carrying the flaming Blade encarmine instead of the chalice? That would be nice. Though, isn't it too Dark angely? And, what to use as a background? Also on a side note, I do not think that an ancient dreadnought is not honorable enough to be able to carry a company insignia, hell, Dreadies are ancient legends that sacrificed all for Him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2514361 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 one of the companys i think are caled the blood swords so id say advoid it for the reasoning that its probably in their insignia... And its quite darkangelsly Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2514482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperors Immortals Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 cant remember where, but i recall BA dreads having aiconography related to there entombmnet on there banners - ie many fanged warp beast for example. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2514487 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpWalker Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 I think this is a great topic and I want to see it busy. I haven't got to the Heraldry yet but I'm working up some squads. So I thought I'd post images of their markings, for now. My Army is Angels Encarmine. Top left is a standard brother's markings. Top right is a sergeant. Bottom left is a veteran marine. Bottom right is a sergeant veteran. J Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2517107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Paen Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I'm building the 8th Co. Bloodblades , under Capt Zedrenael " Lord of Skyfall". Im building assault sqds with and without jumppacks. We will have three DSing Land Raiders, three Stormravens, and some droppods for two Furiosos. My Banner is red and yellow like 2nd and 3rd Co, but I painted a red saltire aka D.Co on yellow background to look like the fast attack symbol. There is a single vertical sword and two green blood drops with a number 8 in the corner. On my shoulders I painted the two green drops but the left drop is higher than the right drop. Squad markings are BA codex standard. Hope to get pics out soon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2517514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 some pics of what ive done for company captains http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s317/generalhazard_album/models/PA060220.jpg As you can see on the 3rd co captain ive gone with a mealic helm to represent the comapany name (which is probably used by most 3rd co ba sucesors due to company colour. migt change his flame colour to metal though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2530008 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judaz Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 I got inspired by this thread and I will now give all my sergeants a personal banner. I should give my Dreads banners too, but I don't have enough bannes yet. My HQ's are a Librarian and a Reclusiarch most of the times. Should they get banners aswell? They aren't in a leading position in the same way as the sargs or the captain, but they sure are experienced enough to have a banner. And if they get it, how should the banners look? Libbys should problably be something with a book, but the reclusiarch? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/210496-heraldryiconography-workshop/#findComment-2530578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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