Empty Land Speeder Storms

[captain sox]

Good day everyone!

 

Just curious if you can field empty Land Speeder Storms as part of your army, or do they have to have troops in them?

 

I know they can only take scouts, but do they have to start the game occupied?

 

I'm working on my all Scout army, and I wasn't sure about this.

 

Thanks in advance!

[greatcrusade08]

No its not a requirment to have scouts in them. Although given they are open topped if you dont intend to use them as transports your losing out.

[Br.Pat]

It's quite stupid that they're not dedicated transports imo

[greatcrusade08]

It's quite stupid that they're not dedicated transports imo

 

yeah i agree, althouhg when it comes to scout armies it wouldnt help a huge amount, as scouts work better in tens.. using scouts in normal SM armies would be alot more tempting though

[captain sox]

So can they pick up 5 scouts along the way, assuming all 5 are from the same squad?

[Warp Angel]

So can they pick up 5 scouts along the way, assuming all 5 are from the same squad?

 

Yes. They have the same rules for transporting a unit as every other transport in the game. :D

[Br.Pat]

How competitive do you guys find the LSS (with 5 scouts ofcourse) ? I read a tactica the other day saying that they're a waste of points in a competitive build but I have a different opinion.

[Jackelope King]

How competitive do you guys find the LSS (with 5 scouts ofcourse) ? I read a tactica the other day saying that they're a waste of points in a competitive build but I have a different opinion.

Not competitive at all. They are, unfortunately, weak sauce. They're worse than your normal expenditure in the Fast Attack slot (either a normal Land Speeder Squadron or even an Attack Bike Squadron). The Scouts they drop off are pretty poor in close combat (they have poor staying-power and tend to die quickly when the enemy attacks back). And 5 Scouts just won't do anything. BS3 means it's a poor Fast Melta platform. Open-topped means it's much easier than a standard speeder to remove when used aggressively.

 

Some folks will advocate using them as a "Torpedo" early-game, sending the Storms across the board to try to zap open key enemy vehicles with Melta, then meltabombs or power fists on the sergeant (some folks will similarly recommend using Scout Bikes in this way). I won't. It's too easy to defend against with good deployment (Skirmishers / bubble wrap deployed around these vehicles stops the "Torpedo" dead in its tracks), and the unit's value drops exponentially if you don't get first turn.

 

It's an interesting study in what makes for a bad unit: on its own, a LSS actually provides some nice options that can enhance your force considerably, but since they cannot adequately fill the role that our other Fast Attack choices do (mainly Fast, Reliable Melta), they go from "alright" to "waste of points". If it were a dedicated transport for scouts, I think they'd be pretty effective at knocking enemy infantry off of objectives on turn 5 (12" move, then heavy flamer + combi-flamer then charge the enemy at leadership -2). But as is, it's another case of "I love the concept, but it still sucks".

[Br.Pat]

I think the main point of the LSS is just to rush for an objective at turn 5 or 6... infact my LSS is exactly tooled out how you said in your last paragraph. I don't really see how not being a dedicated transport effects this.

[Jackelope King]

I think the main point of the LSS is just to rush for an objective at turn 5 or 6... infact my LSS is exactly tooled out how you said in your last paragraph. I don't really see how not being a dedicated transport effects this.

Because it eats up a FA slot. See here:

They're worse than your normal expenditure in the Fast Attack slot (either a normal Land Speeder Squadron or even an Attack Bike Squadron). The Scouts they drop off are pretty poor in close combat (they have poor staying-power and tend to die quickly when the enemy attacks back). And 5 Scouts just won't do anything. BS3 means it's a poor Fast Melta platform. Open-topped means it's much easier than a standard speeder to remove when used aggressively.

[TyrionTheImp]

They have their fun uses, just not competitively usually. AV 10 Open Topped and BS3? euh...bleh. Loaded up with scouts makes it marginally better, but I'd just as soon outflank them if they were CC-scouts or if I were using snipers do that. Scouts in general are sort of meh (though personally I like a 5 man CC squad with a powerfist outflanking to deal with long range threats and the occasional vehicle) unless you can really use them right. Giving mediocre things with a mediocre transport just doesn't wow people though.

 

The case isn't necessarily they're bad though, just that there are better choices for the points and slots and this is true for a lot of things in the codex. Devastators for instance aren't really bad, but you can get a predator for cheaper that brings AV13 to the table for less than a well equipped D-squad.

[greatcrusade08]

How competitive do you guys find the LSS (with 5 scouts ofcourse) ? I read a tactica the other day saying that they're a waste of points in a competitive build but I have a different opinion.

 

a single unit cannot be competative, that 'judgement' has to be made for the army as a whole.. remember the whole is/should be greater than the sum of its parts. most of the lists i build work well with them, especially if they stack with alot of other units that can hit first turn.. sure they are weaker than other speeders and often more expensive.. BUT they do score (the scouts) and require the attention of a unit to finsih them off.

If your facing IG or the right eldar unit they arent as easy to kill as some would lead you to believe.. i played a tourney game where my LSS scouts took out a unit of veterans each.. they are still SMs after all.

 

 

The argument that the 'torpedo' is easy to avoid has merit, but the fact he has to change his deployment/game plan is good.. ive played a game where soeone knew the potential of my melta storm.. he hid his raider behind rhinos.. but after i destroyed rhinos his raider and assault unit it carryied was trapped.

 

if you want to run one, try it out, it may just surprise you

[Br.Pat]

I usually include one in every army list and they what they're supposed to do well. That said I haven't played one versus and MEQ army, I've only played them against Tau, Dark Eldar and Tyranids so perhaps this kind of gives a certain amount of bias (given that I normally equip my storm with a heavy flamer and a combi-flamer seargent).

 

That said if you have other nasties in your army, the enemy are likely to ignore the storm and it can cover a respectable amount of ground in a short time allowing you to hit the enemy's weak spots.

 

What do you think about using it in an almost defensive role? Hiding behind cover and bursting out to attack units assaulting your objectives? I've had some success with this.

[Cerrik]

LSS tend to work better in pairs I've noticed. I've played a few games vs Nids with my scout army and everytime I run the storm alone, it all gets thrashed. When I run them together, they work wonders. Last game I used 2 toting Heavy Flamers to deal with a squad of about 12 Genestealers w/ Broodlord. The Hvy Flamers knocked out most of em, the sgt.'s combiflamer dealt a nasty blow as well. By the time I charged, all I had to deal with was 2 Stealers and the Broodlord with 4 Shotgun scouts, 4 CCW scouts, a Fist sgt and a PW sgt. Wish I could say it went even better from there... but the Broodlord just kept hanging on.

[rat of vengence]

I tend to think those who say the LSS is a bad choice just don't know how to use them. I run one with a heavy flamer, 5 scouts kitted for close combat including a powerfist.

I pretty much ALWAYS outflank. That way, it's paltry AV10 isn't an issue, and my opponent now knows it could turn up and impact a 18" strip on either flank.

I have used it to take the home objective guarded by 10-15 orks, not much left to assault after the heavy flamer does its thing, and the -2 ld is gold when the assault makes the survivors (if any) run. It is great for delivering a powerfist to a tank that needs to die, such as vindicators, predators, hammerheads etc. I have also used it to deliver scouts and a template to a multiple combat, to support my assault squad.

Yes, it takes up a valuable FA slot, but depending on the units in your army, this may or may not be an issue. In small point games, the LSS can be a game winner.

 

RoV