Rifleman Dreadnought

[Anpu42]

My reson for using them is I have a Real Rifleman [Raidar X] that I use as one.

[Crynn]

Crynn,

 

Almost none of your statements actually provide examples as to why you think the Autolas is a better choice. Most of them simply say "the pred is better" and move on to the next topic. I'd like to be able to respond to your arguments, but without you providing examples I really don't have anything to work with.

 

I will however reply to the examples you did provide:

 

First section, it's true a Dread has trouble gaining cover from your average height space marines (Assault Marines can do it thanks to dynamic posing and big jump packs) but you can't get a cover save from 1 GW Tree model with the Pred while you can with the Dread. This also frees up the other vehicles you would need to provide cover to go and give it to someone else who needs it. You also don't give your target cover in this case.

 

In your guard section, you mention Russes as a reason for the Predators superiority. Granted if you're shooting at the front of the vehicle you are completely correct, the small chance of penetrating hits with a lascannon is much better than the minimal chance of glancing with the autocannons. But this ignores the point that neither of these vehicles should be taking shots at Russes when there are more valid targets (Artillery and Transports), especially not in an Angel list when you can have a 5man RAS with Melta and Infernus drop behind it with minimal scatter and pop it much more reliably, and generally earlier in the game. Not to mention they're cheap and a troop choice...

 

Against Nid Warriors, the difference between Rifleman and Autolas is 1 dead bug vs 1 dead bug and 1 bug with 2/3 wounds left. Not huge.

 

Your example of 3+ cover only applies to shooting facings other than the one you are in, and if that's the case, then it's your AV11 that's open. Not only that, but keeping the Pred in cover forces you to negate 1 or more of your lascannons or give your opponent cover from them as well.

 

Now, what I want to come from all of this is not that the Rifleman is a better choice every time, I've never said that. What I want clear is that if you're making an all-comers list in which you need the most flexibility from your heavy slots as possible, I feel (quite strongly) that the Rifleman is a better choice. Yes the Autolas does have places it excels, in many cases Orks and Bugs have trouble dealing with the AV13 so yes, I can see the Autolas doing better against many of these lists, thanks to superior range and mobility. I just don't see that same thing happening against IG when they can potentially have 3 units with a total of 11 Meltaguns (usually Twin-Linked) in your face top of turn 1, or against Eldar where, no matter how much more mobile we are than Vanilla Marines, you're going to be getting out run and out maneuvered until you can cripple them.

 

As a side note, AC/HB Baal = 145 minimum, Rifleman = 120 minimum.

 

 

The ones I didnt provide mathamic examples too are simply put obvious, If you want to do the math you will see I am correct. There seems to be pretty clear cut examples when I look at it. listed the army then the units it would be superior against, the math you can do as it will just take up huge space but I know that I am 100% correct mathamatically with each example.

 

Guard my main point was vendettas, not russ' if you look which the pred is far superior for also competitrive guard you cannot drop in with jump troops because mystics will mean your unit will die before it gets off a single shot, orks was nobs and battle wagons again simply better, nids you said it was slightly better but ill take slightly.

 

Now for covers saves, you do not expose your side armor on the pred, like i said you use the side armor of a rhino or such because its best armor is only 11 anyway, as for giving them a cover saves, completely not true, you face what you are shooting and fire with full effect and block line of site to other parts of the army, it requires some finesse but a good player can do it, it is easier with vindicators but involves generally targeting flanks or facing 1 unit that you attack and making sure the other units in your front armor arc aren't dangerous to the

pred.

 

Now guard with melta, both vehicles will die against that however the pred can destoy the transports and the vendettas easier, plain and simple so it will survive more by that alone, against eldar there is no need to get out run we are just as fast as them we are both fast vehicles, and id rather have the option to move 12 than not, on that note the pred can get side shot much easier the the dread move 18 get into position then fire next turn if side armor is really that much better (I generally dont do this but its an option)

 

Tank shock is another big one, dread cant do it pred can to get people off objectives last turn, this will win you games.

 

Dread can kill infantry better pred can kill heavy infantry and armor 11+ vehicles better, the versatility is right there infront of you not to mention that very few people will side with you on a dread being harder to destroy. If you want to shoot infantry take a normal pred with heavy bolters and ac it is 20 points cheaper and performs better than the dread, it is almost a redundant vehicle in the blood angels book, Space marines havegreat use for it we dont hence they are not found in competitive play, NOT FOUND IN COMPETITIVE PLAY. it doesnt get much more conclusive than that.

 

On a side note a appreciate your arguements and manner in which you have conducted them, clearly your a smart guy and I appreciate the effort you put into your posts, if you still feel strongly for the dread please keep providing more evidence for it as I am more than a little interested in why you hold it so highly. (no sarcasm or anythign meant in this at all, just in case you thought it)

 

Regards Crynn

[SamaNagol]

I'd rather use an AC/LC Predator, personally

[Zid]

I have 3 Riflemen dreads. Not only do they look cool (my friends say they look like mechwarrior mechs), but they perform admirably every single game.

 

The key I find is to spread them equa-distant apart against fast moving or high front AV armies (IG, etc.). With 48" range + 6" movement, the chances of getting side shots on things is pretty damn high. Eldar I can normally glance/pen 3 vehicles a turn, normally popping at least 1 and neutering firepower from 2 others. Dark eldar I will guarenteed pop 3 vehicles a turn, unless I roll abysmally. Marines I typically get 2 non-smoked rhinos a turn.

 

Like others said, the Rifleman fills its roll (Light/Medium armor, Infantry) very, very well for its points. For 360 points I get 12 twin-linked str 7 shots a turn from across the field. Its easy to give them cover as well, hide em in a forest and watch stuff blow up. On top of that, they always tie something up in combat for a few turns if they get that close. Eldar have very few things that can pop a dread in CC, same with dark eldar, marines rely on power fists and grenades (and if they have no PF guarenteed you'll run em off), and orks/nids have a rough time dropping dreads if they don't get the charge.

 

I wouldn't trade my Riflemen dreads for anything. I think preds, while mobile, are good at what they do: popping a rhino here, a chimera there. But they still cannot reliably deal with Wave Serpents, Russes, or Land Raiders anymore than a Dev squad with 3 missiles and a lascannon. Thats what my melta-speeders are for.

 

Its all in how you do it; you can mathhammer all day long, but in the end, if your dice (or luck) go sour, or are hot, its what will decide the game moreso than "well this SHOULD have happened".

[Crynn]

I have 3 Riflemen dreads. Not only do they look cool (my friends say they look like mechwarrior mechs), but they perform admirably every single game.

 

The key I find is to spread them equa-distant apart against fast moving or high front AV armies (IG, etc.). With 48" range + 6" movement, the chances of getting side shots on things is pretty damn high. Eldar I can normally glance/pen 3 vehicles a turn, normally popping at least 1 and neutering firepower from 2 others. Dark eldar I will guarenteed pop 3 vehicles a turn, unless I roll abysmally. Marines I typically get 2 non-smoked rhinos a turn.

 

Like others said, the Rifleman fills its roll (Light/Medium armor, Infantry) very, very well for its points. For 360 points I get 12 twin-linked str 7 shots a turn from across the field. Its easy to give them cover as well, hide em in a forest and watch stuff blow up. On top of that, they always tie something up in combat for a few turns if they get that close. Eldar have very few things that can pop a dread in CC, same with dark eldar, marines rely on power fists and grenades (and if they have no PF guarenteed you'll run em off), and orks/nids have a rough time dropping dreads if they don't get the charge.

 

I wouldn't trade my Riflemen dreads for anything. I think preds, while mobile, are good at what they do: popping a rhino here, a chimera there. But they still cannot reliably deal with Wave Serpents, Russes, or Land Raiders anymore than a Dev squad with 3 missiles and a lascannon. Thats what my melta-speeders are for.

 

Its all in how you do it; you can mathhammer all day long, but in the end, if your dice (or luck) go sour, or are hot, its what will decide the game moreso than "well this SHOULD have happened".

 

You have provided little to no evidece for anything here.

 

Sure you may think your dev squad is better for popping raiders and russes, chimeras and wave serpents, however that isnt what is in question, you dont have to shoot the pred at these targets. I will admit that if the role you are looking for is 'light armor, MEDIUM INFANTRY' then the dread is superior dmg wise, however this is a very specific role you have here. I think for versatility it doesnt compare, while it is a good choice it just gets slightly out performed by the pred vs most targets. For instance play against a wolf wing or deathwing list, and it will be useless, against heavy mech armies or marines it will fair far worse than the pred however if you want to kill medium infatry it is a better choice, I would just argue we have better choices for that again.

 

So while I see where you are coming from I believe its short coming out weigh its benefits compared to the pred, it isnt a bad choice, I have never said that, but like most competitive players i know which unit will make my army list.

 

Regards

Crynn

[Zid]

I have 3 Riflemen dreads. Not only do they look cool (my friends say they look like mechwarrior mechs), but they perform admirably every single game.

 

The key I find is to spread them equa-distant apart against fast moving or high front AV armies (IG, etc.). With 48" range + 6" movement, the chances of getting side shots on things is pretty damn high. Eldar I can normally glance/pen 3 vehicles a turn, normally popping at least 1 and neutering firepower from 2 others. Dark eldar I will guarenteed pop 3 vehicles a turn, unless I roll abysmally. Marines I typically get 2 non-smoked rhinos a turn.

 

Like others said, the Rifleman fills its roll (Light/Medium armor, Infantry) very, very well for its points. For 360 points I get 12 twin-linked str 7 shots a turn from across the field. Its easy to give them cover as well, hide em in a forest and watch stuff blow up. On top of that, they always tie something up in combat for a few turns if they get that close. Eldar have very few things that can pop a dread in CC, same with dark eldar, marines rely on power fists and grenades (and if they have no PF guarenteed you'll run em off), and orks/nids have a rough time dropping dreads if they don't get the charge.

 

I wouldn't trade my Riflemen dreads for anything. I think preds, while mobile, are good at what they do: popping a rhino here, a chimera there. But they still cannot reliably deal with Wave Serpents, Russes, or Land Raiders anymore than a Dev squad with 3 missiles and a lascannon. Thats what my melta-speeders are for.

 

Its all in how you do it; you can mathhammer all day long, but in the end, if your dice (or luck) go sour, or are hot, its what will decide the game moreso than "well this SHOULD have happened".

 

You have provided little to no evidece for anything here.

 

Sure you may think your dev squad is better for popping raiders and russes, chimeras and wave serpents, however that isnt what is in question, you dont have to shoot the pred at these targets. I will admit that if the role you are looking for is 'light armor, MEDIUM INFANTRY' then the dread is superior dmg wise, however this is a very specific role you have here. I think for versatility it doesnt compare, while it is a good choice it just gets slightly out performed by the pred vs most targets. For instance play against a wolf wing or deathwing list, and it will be useless, against heavy mech armies or marines it will fair far worse than the pred however if you want to kill medium infatry it is a better choice, I would just argue we have better choices for that again.

 

So while I see where you are coming from I believe its short coming out weigh its benefits compared to the pred, it isnt a bad choice, I have never said that, but like most competitive players i know which unit will make my army list.

 

Regards

Crynn

 

It also depends on what you run. Yes, for razorspam lists or mech-heavy armor spam, sure. But for the list I run (dual raider redeemers, 3 speeders, dual meltas in several squads) the autocannons fit the bill for popping the tanks that my meltas wouldn't "normally" target. In an AV 13 heavy list you have tons of autocannons, lascannon razorbacks, and predators... you have enough shooting to get the job done. In my area Loganwing and anything more than 2 raiders is pretty unheard of.

 

Now if I was going completely competative, sure, I might do predators. But up to this point I've used the dreads in 10 games, and this is their killcount thus far:

 

- 1 Deff Dread

- 12 Killa Kans

- 10 or so wyches

- 5 Dark Eldar Raiders

- 2 Dark Eldar Ravagers

- 1 Baal Predator

- 10 or so rhinos

- a few marines and things here and there, a few nid warriors

- 2 full longfang packs

 

In these games I've only lost 4 dreads, mostly due to outflanking kommandos and things.

 

Its entirely based on experience in my case, I love my dreads. Maybe if i were going on national circuits playing for bigger prizes than a $50 gift certificate, or if I had the cash to afford more than I own... but the military doesn't really allow that sort of flexibility, I'm lucky I get to play at all with my wife lol.

 

At no point did I say dreads were "competative", I just stated why I like mine over predators. It also leaves me a few extra points to spend elseware... hell, I run 1 random furioso in a pod, thats not exactly competative is it?

[Crynn]

I have 3 Riflemen dreads. Not only do they look cool (my friends say they look like mechwarrior mechs), but they perform admirably every single game.

 

The key I find is to spread them equa-distant apart against fast moving or high front AV armies (IG, etc.). With 48" range + 6" movement, the chances of getting side shots on things is pretty damn high. Eldar I can normally glance/pen 3 vehicles a turn, normally popping at least 1 and neutering firepower from 2 others. Dark eldar I will guarenteed pop 3 vehicles a turn, unless I roll abysmally. Marines I typically get 2 non-smoked rhinos a turn.

 

Like others said, the Rifleman fills its roll (Light/Medium armor, Infantry) very, very well for its points. For 360 points I get 12 twin-linked str 7 shots a turn from across the field. Its easy to give them cover as well, hide em in a forest and watch stuff blow up. On top of that, they always tie something up in combat for a few turns if they get that close. Eldar have very few things that can pop a dread in CC, same with dark eldar, marines rely on power fists and grenades (and if they have no PF guarenteed you'll run em off), and orks/nids have a rough time dropping dreads if they don't get the charge.

 

I wouldn't trade my Riflemen dreads for anything. I think preds, while mobile, are good at what they do: popping a rhino here, a chimera there. But they still cannot reliably deal with Wave Serpents, Russes, or Land Raiders anymore than a Dev squad with 3 missiles and a lascannon. Thats what my melta-speeders are for.

 

Its all in how you do it; you can mathhammer all day long, but in the end, if your dice (or luck) go sour, or are hot, its what will decide the game moreso than "well this SHOULD have happened".

 

You have provided little to no evidece for anything here.

 

Sure you may think your dev squad is better for popping raiders and russes, chimeras and wave serpents, however that isnt what is in question, you dont have to shoot the pred at these targets. I will admit that if the role you are looking for is 'light armor, MEDIUM INFANTRY' then the dread is superior dmg wise, however this is a very specific role you have here. I think for versatility it doesnt compare, while it is a good choice it just gets slightly out performed by the pred vs most targets. For instance play against a wolf wing or deathwing list, and it will be useless, against heavy mech armies or marines it will fair far worse than the pred however if you want to kill medium infatry it is a better choice, I would just argue we have better choices for that again.

 

So while I see where you are coming from I believe its short coming out weigh its benefits compared to the pred, it isnt a bad choice, I have never said that, but like most competitive players i know which unit will make my army list.

 

Regards

Crynn

 

It also depends on what you run. Yes, for razorspam lists or mech-heavy armor spam, sure. But for the list I run (dual raider redeemers, 3 speeders, dual meltas in several squads) the autocannons fit the bill for popping the tanks that my meltas wouldn't "normally" target. In an AV 13 heavy list you have tons of autocannons, lascannon razorbacks, and predators... you have enough shooting to get the job done. In my area Loganwing and anything more than 2 raiders is pretty unheard of.

 

Now if I was going completely competative, sure, I might do predators. But up to this point I've used the dreads in 10 games, and this is their killcount thus far:

 

- 1 Deff Dread

- 12 Killa Kans

- 10 or so wyches

- 5 Dark Eldar Raiders

- 2 Dark Eldar Ravagers

- 1 Baal Predator

- 10 or so rhinos

- a few marines and things here and there, a few nid warriors

- 2 full longfang packs

 

In these games I've only lost 4 dreads, mostly due to outflanking kommandos and things.

 

Its entirely based on experience in my case, I love my dreads. Maybe if i were going on national circuits playing for bigger prizes than a $50 gift certificate, or if I had the cash to afford more than I own... but the military doesn't really allow that sort of flexibility, I'm lucky I get to play at all with my wife lol.

 

At no point did I say dreads were "competative", I just stated why I like mine over predators. It also leaves me a few extra points to spend elseware... hell, I run 1 random furioso in a pod, thats not exactly competative is it?

 

 

95% fair call, you are indeed correct, they are still 'quite' competitive too, I by no means say they are useless. One thing though, in your list you mentioned that you had dual raiders and speeders and the dreads fitted better for popping vehicles that your meltas dont, this is my point, they don't. The pred will do it better, the dread will do it well but the pred will do it better. Only against infantry that isnt in heavy armor does they dread out perform the pred and against av 10 vehicles, 11 is a draw 12 and up goes to pred. In terms of what one can afford, likes to use, thinks is cool, playing when not 100% concerned about the maximum competitive component the dread is great and you are correct that its stats in mose cases arent far off the preds anyway.

 

Regards

Crynn

[B1ad3st0rm]

Rifleman dreads are great for just turn after turn take four saves, sure things don't drop quickly but they are annoying.

[Crynn]

On average a riflemen dread will only force 3 saves.

 

Lol sorry I couldnt help myself.

 

Regards

Crynn

[Zid]

I have 3 Riflemen dreads. Not only do they look cool (my friends say they look like mechwarrior mechs), but they perform admirably every single game.

 

The key I find is to spread them equa-distant apart against fast moving or high front AV armies (IG, etc.). With 48" range + 6" movement, the chances of getting side shots on things is pretty damn high. Eldar I can normally glance/pen 3 vehicles a turn, normally popping at least 1 and neutering firepower from 2 others. Dark eldar I will guarenteed pop 3 vehicles a turn, unless I roll abysmally. Marines I typically get 2 non-smoked rhinos a turn.

 

Like others said, the Rifleman fills its roll (Light/Medium armor, Infantry) very, very well for its points. For 360 points I get 12 twin-linked str 7 shots a turn from across the field. Its easy to give them cover as well, hide em in a forest and watch stuff blow up. On top of that, they always tie something up in combat for a few turns if they get that close. Eldar have very few things that can pop a dread in CC, same with dark eldar, marines rely on power fists and grenades (and if they have no PF guarenteed you'll run em off), and orks/nids have a rough time dropping dreads if they don't get the charge.

 

I wouldn't trade my Riflemen dreads for anything. I think preds, while mobile, are good at what they do: popping a rhino here, a chimera there. But they still cannot reliably deal with Wave Serpents, Russes, or Land Raiders anymore than a Dev squad with 3 missiles and a lascannon. Thats what my melta-speeders are for.

 

Its all in how you do it; you can mathhammer all day long, but in the end, if your dice (or luck) go sour, or are hot, its what will decide the game moreso than "well this SHOULD have happened".

 

You have provided little to no evidece for anything here.

 

Sure you may think your dev squad is better for popping raiders and russes, chimeras and wave serpents, however that isnt what is in question, you dont have to shoot the pred at these targets. I will admit that if the role you are looking for is 'light armor, MEDIUM INFANTRY' then the dread is superior dmg wise, however this is a very specific role you have here. I think for versatility it doesnt compare, while it is a good choice it just gets slightly out performed by the pred vs most targets. For instance play against a wolf wing or deathwing list, and it will be useless, against heavy mech armies or marines it will fair far worse than the pred however if you want to kill medium infatry it is a better choice, I would just argue we have better choices for that again.

 

So while I see where you are coming from I believe its short coming out weigh its benefits compared to the pred, it isnt a bad choice, I have never said that, but like most competitive players i know which unit will make my army list.

 

Regards

Crynn

 

It also depends on what you run. Yes, for razorspam lists or mech-heavy armor spam, sure. But for the list I run (dual raider redeemers, 3 speeders, dual meltas in several squads) the autocannons fit the bill for popping the tanks that my meltas wouldn't "normally" target. In an AV 13 heavy list you have tons of autocannons, lascannon razorbacks, and predators... you have enough shooting to get the job done. In my area Loganwing and anything more than 2 raiders is pretty unheard of.

 

Now if I was going completely competative, sure, I might do predators. But up to this point I've used the dreads in 10 games, and this is their killcount thus far:

 

- 1 Deff Dread

- 12 Killa Kans

- 10 or so wyches

- 5 Dark Eldar Raiders

- 2 Dark Eldar Ravagers

- 1 Baal Predator

- 10 or so rhinos

- a few marines and things here and there, a few nid warriors

- 2 full longfang packs

 

In these games I've only lost 4 dreads, mostly due to outflanking kommandos and things.

 

Its entirely based on experience in my case, I love my dreads. Maybe if i were going on national circuits playing for bigger prizes than a $50 gift certificate, or if I had the cash to afford more than I own... but the military doesn't really allow that sort of flexibility, I'm lucky I get to play at all with my wife lol.

 

At no point did I say dreads were "competative", I just stated why I like mine over predators. It also leaves me a few extra points to spend elseware... hell, I run 1 random furioso in a pod, thats not exactly competative is it?

 

 

95% fair call, you are indeed correct, they are still 'quite' competitive too, I by no means say they are useless. One thing though, in your list you mentioned that you had dual raiders and speeders and the dreads fitted better for popping vehicles that your meltas dont, this is my point, they don't. The pred will do it better, the dread will do it well but the pred will do it better. Only against infantry that isnt in heavy armor does they dread out perform the pred and against av 10 vehicles, 11 is a draw 12 and up goes to pred. In terms of what one can afford, likes to use, thinks is cool, playing when not 100% concerned about the maximum competitive component the dread is great and you are correct that its stats in mose cases arent far off the preds anyway.

 

Regards

Crynn

 

And I can completely agree with you! The pred was built for popping tanks. I guess my issue with preds is this:

 

1) Points. The AC variant (imo) isn't very reliable... should be twin linked honestly. The lascannon tacks on another 35 points, so 105 (same as a dread) for a twin linked lascannon. Then you either tack on HB sponsons or lascannon sponsons... in the end its 20 or so more points than the dread. I like cheap stuff! 120 points for 4 twin linked str 7 shots is pretty rad IMO. When i played IG and chaos I was a huge fan of autocannon spam :)

 

2) Hiding. Sure, I can hide it in a forest and stuff like the dread, but the chance to immobilize myself (which happens a lot ;) ) doesn't bode well with me. Hell, even pivoting you can get stuck on a log or some crap.

 

3) Cool factor. I like an army to "stand out" on the table, and 3 dreads with forgeworld autocannon definitely draws some looks!

 

4) Dreadnaughts. I like dreads. As chaos, I never really got to run them because the crazy rules made them a huge liability. IG didn't get them, Demons got big critters but dreads just look so... awesome. Especially if you ever played dawn of war (the original), the dreads running around tearing guys in half was awe-inspiring, and I swore if I ever did tabletop I wanted a few.

 

I completely agree that for popping medium-heavy armor a pred definitely outshines! But I guess in my area where predators are few and far between, and chimera spam is only done by a few, its not as much of an issue. Tho I would definitely love to run some baal predators, but building a dwarf army is taking precedence over expanding my angels :(

[SamaNagol]

AC Turret and Las sponsons is more cost effective at popping light armour targets than a rifleman Dread.

[Corby]

I'm currently using two 'Riflemen' dreadnoughts in my Competitive army list. The ability to accurately put out 3-4 S7 shots a turn while still moving is amazing for deal with Lazorback / Skimmers and anything with Av 12 or under. They are far more reliable than the Auto/las Predator , Slightly cheaper ( making for more Melta else where) and can get cover saves alot easier. And while they have 1 less front armour value they have +1 side armour value over the Predator.

[Crynn]

I'm currently using two 'Riflemen' dreadnoughts in my Competitive army list. The ability to accurately put out 3-4 S7 shots a turn while still moving is amazing for deal with Lazorback / Skimmers and anything with Av 12 or under. They are far more reliable than the Auto/las Predator , Slightly cheaper ( making for more Melta else where) and can get cover saves alot easier. And while they have 1 less front armour value they have +1 side armour value over the Predator.

 

You say they are far more rilaible, but this is infact not true. I don't know weather you've actually been following the thread but they are not 'far more reliable' so please give your statements some merrit or evidence please. Preds may not find conventional cover as easy as dreads but they can get cover saves from tactical marine sized models, dreads cannot.

[Godhead]

They are far more reliable in the fact that the ac/las pred's do not get rerolls. If you play a non blood angels list, then the dread absolutely becomes more mobile.

[Brother_Dan'l]

And that's the kicker right there. If you don't play Blood Angels the Rifleman is dramatically more useful. The moment you move a vanilla Auto/Las Predator it becomes a joke. We don't have that problem.

 

For Blood Angels armies the utility of the Rifleman is based on totally on the slightly cheaper cost multiplied by the "rule of cool". For me there's the added factor of of my strong dislike of SPAM. I find it boring. And that's visually, game play and modeling wise that I find it boring. So odds are good that if I've got unlimited points I'll have Predators and a Rifleman. Though to be totally honest I've not had either in my lists for nearly two months.

[Crynn]

They are far more reliable in the fact that the ac/las pred's do not get rerolls. If you play a non blood angels list, then the dread absolutely becomes more mobile.

 

Your in a blood angel forum, go tell orks they need riflemen dreads too. lol

 

Crynn

[Wildfire]

I agree with those that said a rifleman is good for vanilla, but poor when compared to the BA pred.

 

Also, with AV12, you're looking at just over 100% chance to glance- ie do "something".

 

Sorry, but you can never have "over 100% chance" for anything. I'm not sure what you're using for your math, but simply adding the percentages of individual shots together does not give you a correct answer. You probably meant to say that you'll average one glance per round of shooting?

[Crynn]

I agree with those that said a rifleman is good for vanilla, but poor when compared to the BA pred.

 

Also, with AV12, you're looking at just over 100% chance to glance- ie do "something".

 

Sorry, but you can never have "over 100% chance" for anything. I'm not sure what you're using for your math, but simply adding the percentages of individual shots together does not give you a correct answer. You probably meant to say that you'll average one glance per round of shooting?

 

Morts pretty good with these things normally I'd imagine it's just a simple slip up. Like you said he means you on average will cause just over 1 glancing or pen hit on AV 12.

[SamaNagol]

You can have an over 100% probability of something happening. That's when you count the Rifleman's shots as one event, rather than 4 separate ones.

 

However, even with re-rolls, the 2 TL Autocannon will not give you as high probability of penetrating an AV 11 transport when compared to the AC/TLC pred

[surelock]

You can have an over 100% probability of something happening. That's when you count the Rifleman's shots as one event, rather than 4 separate ones.

 

However, even with re-rolls, the 2 TL Autocannon will not give you as high probability of penetrating an AV 11 transport when compared to the AC/TLC pred

 

I have used both (not together but that may be a possibility to try at some point) and I believe in mathhammer as a valid point (except when it comes to my anamolous ability to roll 1's and 2's), however having said that, my rifleman dread draws a lot less fire than my predator does as he seems to be less of a perceived threat. The lascannons tend to be more threatening to the players (loads of space marines and quite a few IG players) in my area and tend to draw a boatload of fire, the dreads not so much (however both will typically draw some fire every round the dread actually tends to draw considerably less and I have never had my opponent commit an entire shooting phase to my 2 dreads as they have a number of times on my 2 preds).

 

Also with the dreads ability for CC (even though he usually stays in the back lines, I will still typically in a game end up in assault with him) I really like using the dread over the predator.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Riflemen are too slow for BA.

 

0b :tu:

[Crynn]

Riflemen are too slow for BA.

 

0b :huh:

 

I've been saying this for a while now, so consider this a +1 to your post.

[Godhead]

I agree with the statement that riflemen are too slow for BA, but they are great if you aren't BA. So I was casting my opinion in the lot with the ac/las pred is better in a BA list. I guess the point was lost because I was too busy trying to convince orks to run riflemen dreads instead of Kans.

[Crynn]

I agree with the statement that riflemen are too slow for BA, but they are great if you aren't BA. So I was casting my opinion in the lot with the ac/las pred is better in a BA list. I guess the point was lost because I was too busy trying to convince orks to run riflemen dreads instead of Kans.

 

Hahah thank you for taking that with a grain of salt, I wish others had your attitude, now I look like the idiot for that remark. Thumbs up for you.

 

Did you convince anyone? lol

 

Regards

 

Crynn

[Godhead]

No I think my argument was lost in the roar of those damn bikes.