Rifleman Dreadnought

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

The big problem with the pred is that you have to stay still to fire all your guns and if you do, assaults auto-hit you and you can't strike back plus are hit on your rear armor.

[Brother_Dan'l]

This is the Blood Angels FAST Predator we're talking about here you realize? It can move 6" and pound away with all 3 weapons. Regardless of the weakness of it's flank armor and taking any CC hits up the tail pipe, it's a damned fine piece of armor. :jaw:

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Sorry, I missed the forum name. :jaw: The dread can do pretty much everything except kill Land Raiders and heavy infantry.

 

Oh, and it is good and the model's cool, but the dread is more versatile.

[Crynn]

Sorry, I missed the forum name. :D The dread can do pretty much everything except kill Land Raiders and heavy infantry.

 

Oh, and it is good and the model's cool, but the dread is more versatile.

 

Compared to a blood angels pred it isnt more versatile, it kills infantry slightly better, but heavy infatry for worse and more people play MEQ aremies as well and kills heavy vehicles far better, everything else they are about even in and generally pred still slightly above so it is not more versatile.

 

Regards

 

Crynn

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

Ah, but infantry are one of the most essential units in 40k because in most armies infantry are the only troops choices and only troops choices can capture objectives; therefore, the ability to actually do something to infantry at range and in assault is an incredibly necessary skill.

[liberate_tutame]

Ah, but infantry are one of the most essential units in 40k because in most armies infantry are the only troops choices and only troops choices can capture objectives; therefore, the ability to actually do something to infantry at range and in assault is an incredibly necessary skill.

 

That's pretty strange logic. If only for the fact that Riflemen dreadnoughts are pretty awful in assault. Better than a Predator, but Predators don't assault anyways and tank shocking is a useful ability, in a very different way.

 

The only point I would like to make is that assault is certainly not necessary and the ability to strike at range at ANY target makes the Predator of far greater utility than the Rifleman. It is for that simple reason I would never field a Rifleman Dreadnought.

[Wildfire]

The advantge of CC ability is definately one that a dread has. S6 (S7 under the right conditions) is no joke, even without the ability to ignore saves. That and the fact that a dread will lock opposing units in CC, and has an armor of 12 instead of 10 for return stikes, is a very big deal. Saying that the abilty to shoot light infantry and be used in CC doesn't matter much is patently false.

 

However, it doesn't mesh with a typical BA list, because it will usually be left behind as the rest of the army advances. In some lists, namely long-range shooty lists, the rifleman may still contribute significantly. But most BA lists are closer-ranged than that.

 

By mathhammer (shooting at vehicles), vs. AV10 a rifleman is better. AV11, and they're equal. AV12+, a ac/las pred is better.

Against single wound, T5 or less infantry, outside of cover, statistically a rifleman is better shooting at 4+ saves, and worse against 3+. If in 4+ cover, statistically a rifleman is still better vs. 3+ saves. This all gets way harder to quantify if we're talking about base T4 multi-wound models without Eternal Warrior, there's too many variables there for me to really calculate.

 

You can have an over 100% probability of something happening. That's when you count the Rifleman's shots as one event, rather than 4 separate ones.

 

No, you still don't have a 100% probability then. Averages and percentages are two seperate things, and you're mixing them up. If you'd like me to explain further, send me a PM. I don't want to derail this thread any further.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

My rifleman assaulted a mob of 12 orks, was assaulted by another 12 and 5 nobs, and managed to make one boyz mob flee, kill the nobs, and cut down the second mob(long game).

[PhantomPhoenix]

Crynn, you keep saying the autolas is 'far better' when the math that you yourself posted clearly proves this is not the case. The autolas is virtually identical against everything but AV 13+ and 2+ AS both of which are scarce, and neither of which should be the target for the Rifleman or the Autolas.

[SamaNagol]

The AutoLas Pred is more effective against AV12 and above. The Rifleman Dread offers zero threat to AV14.

 

Personally, I do not find the rifleman to be synergistic with the fast moving style of my BA list. However if you have had success with it then more power to you. It is certainly not a BAD choice.

 

And for people giving fantastical examples of what a Dreadnought did once in one battle, that is certainly not anything to base judgement on. Cold, hard numbers are what you should look at.

[Kunanaki]

Really it's a matter of what you enjoy playing.

 

At the end of the day, 4 TL Auto Cannon Shots are nothing to sneeze at. Primarily, I'm a little amused at all of this gasping and excitement running Armour 13 everywhere, and people clambering about the Pred. We are not Eldar, and the list of 6+ AV 13 is deadly, but much less mobile, and if somebody strikes at a vunerable flank, then it's much harder to react, because unlike Skimmers, our tanks block LOS.

 

I've never once played a game where the board was open enough to justify the side sponsons on a predator, most of the time giving whatever I'm firing at a cover save. True Line of Sight means drawing each shot from the barrel of the weapon itself, and they are just too underslung, as has been stated. Now, it doesn't make them at all worthless, or even not worth the points. However, in my opinion, I prefer the coverage of a Dakka Dread, which has much less of a pain to set up in the long run.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It's mainly an issue of speed. Plus riflemen are purely shooty. Sure they are cheap for what you get but that is also part of the problem. I see them as much better as a choice for a gunline vanilla SM list.

 

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