Shadowsword FTW!

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Recently a friend let me borrow his shadowsword for use in a 2500pt spearhead game. As was expected it annihilated everything I wanted it to.

 

But the question is, do str D destroyer weapons ignore structure points? If the 5" blast hits another superheavy and I get a destroyed or explodes result, is the enemy super heavy destroyed outright? Or does it only -1 structure point?

 

What im asking is if a targeted super heavy has its full 3 structure points and hasnt been damaged yet, can the volcano cannon slag it in 1 shot? thx in advance

 

I'm only planning on buying my own if this is true

[H.C.118]

Yes, but like this:

You hit with the weapon. Roll a 5+ on the damage chart. Rinse and repeat until no structure points are remaining.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Recently a friend let me borrow his shadowsword for use in a 2500pt spearhead game. As was expected it annihilated everything I wanted it to.

 

But the question is, do str D destroyer weapons ignore structure points? If the 5" blast hits another superheavy and I get a destroyed or explodes result, is the enemy super heavy destroyed outright? Or does it only -1 structure point?

 

What im asking is if a targeted super heavy has its full 3 structure points and hasnt been damaged yet, can the volcano cannon slag it in 1 shot? thx in advance

 

I'm only planning on buying my own if this is true

 

Can it? yes. Will it always, no. Heack a regular old las cannon CAN slag a 3 sturcture point super heavy in one shot if your realy lucky.

 

The rules for Str D and superheavies is in the apoc book. Super heavies use a completely diferent damage chart from regular vehicles ( for example there is no destroyed or expoded results) and Str D weapons get a +1 on that chart. What it amounts to though is on a 5 you lose a structure point, and on a 6 you lose a sturcture point and roll again (thats without the +1 from Str D though).

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Well thx for the replies but I am aware of the seperate super heavy damage chart, so I do know that its possible to keep rolling 5's and 6's to destroy one.

 

my question was do strength D destroyer weapons basically "count as" insta death in regards to structure points, like do they ignore structure points and treat it as if it had none to begin with? ultimately destroying it in one roll of a 5-6 on damage chart?

[dswanick]

It sounds as though you are trying to overthink the problem. All Str D weapons are "Destroyer weapons". Vehicles can't be "Insta-killed". Any glancing or penetrating hit on a vehicle rolls once on the approriate vehicle damage table. For superheavy vehicles the best result you can get is 6 - Chain Reaction [The vehicle loses 1 Structure Point and the enemy rolls again on this table]. So any weapon can destroy a vehicle with 3 Structure Points by rolling 3 consecutive 6's on the vehicle damage table. But no, it's not automatic.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

thank you! Do you guys still think the shadowsword is worth it over the standard baneblade?

 

and yes I do know the rules/armament for the other super heavy variants, I'm mainly interested in baneblade and shadowsword.

[Grey Mage]

Yes, I would take the Shadowsword over a Baneblade- mostly because it can have BS 4, and Id have issues fielding a SH in my marine army that didnt.

[Hellios]

You need things like Vortex weapons if you want to 'insta-kill' SHVs and even then you could roll badly or if it is something big.... But yer as others have said they use their own damage table and SD gives you an auto pen and +1 on the damage... a Volcano cannon insta gibbing an emperor class titan would be a bit OTT in game terms...

 

However if you can get SD AP1 weapons they are dangerous... as a 4+ will give you a roll again meaning you can actually chain pretty easily... baneblades and the like are not an issue and I'm sure that even things like Warlords could be in trouble :(

[dswanick]

However if you can get SD AP1 weapons they are dangerous... as a 4+ will give you a roll again meaning you can actually chain pretty easily... baneblades and the like are not an issue and I'm sure that even things like Warlords could be in trouble :(

 

1> I am unaware of any StrD AP1 weapons.

2> the SUperheavy damage table doesn't give a bonus to AP1 weapons.

[Hellios]

However if you can get SD AP1 weapons they are dangerous... as a 4+ will give you a roll again meaning you can actually chain pretty easily... baneblades and the like are not an issue and I'm sure that even things like Warlords could be in trouble :rolleyes:

 

1> I am unaware of any StrD AP1 weapons.

2> the SUperheavy damage table doesn't give a bonus to AP1 weapons.

 

1>Tau Heavy Rail gun/rifle/cannon... whatever it is called... ya know the things mantas have... and I don't think that is the only one...

2> The super-heavy damage table certainly gives a bonus to AP1 weapons... unless you are using an out of date version of the table written for the last edition of the game when AP1 didn't give any damage bonus... I say this looking at a super-heavy damage table that says next to it +1 for SD +1 for AP1... and glancing hits suck :D

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

However if you can get SD AP1 weapons they are dangerous... as a 4+ will give you a roll again meaning you can actually chain pretty easily... baneblades and the like are not an issue and I'm sure that even things like Warlords could be in trouble ;)

 

1> I am unaware of any StrD AP1 weapons.

2> the SUperheavy damage table doesn't give a bonus to AP1 weapons.

 

1>Tau Heavy Rail gun/rifle/cannon... whatever it is called... ya know the things mantas have... and I don't think that is the only one...

2> The super-heavy damage table certainly gives a bonus to AP1 weapons... unless you are using an out of date version of the table written for the last edition of the game when AP1 didn't give any damage bonus... I say this looking at a super-heavy damage table that says next to it +1 for SD +1 for AP1... and glancing hits suck :D

 

2> a strD ap1, ordnance weapon would be insane :D

[dswanick]

However if you can get SD AP1 weapons they are dangerous... as a 4+ will give you a roll again meaning you can actually chain pretty easily... baneblades and the like are not an issue and I'm sure that even things like Warlords could be in trouble :D

 

1> I am unaware of any StrD AP1 weapons.

2> the SUperheavy damage table doesn't give a bonus to AP1 weapons.

 

1>Tau Heavy Rail gun/rifle/cannon... whatever it is called... ya know the things mantas have... and I don't think that is the only one...

2> The super-heavy damage table certainly gives a bonus to AP1 weapons... unless you are using an out of date version of the table written for the last edition of the game when AP1 didn't give any damage bonus... I say this looking at a super-heavy damage table that says next to it +1 for SD +1 for AP1... and glancing hits suck :D

 

I assume that you are referring to Forge World rules for these? Since my GW Apocalypse book doesn't show +1 for AP1 on it's SH damage table, nor can I find the Tau Manta.

[Frosty the Pyro]

You need things like Vortex weapons if you want to 'insta-kill' SHVs and even then you could roll badly or if it is something big.... But yer as others have said they use their own damage table and SD gives you an auto pen and +1 on the damage... a Volcano cannon insta gibbing an emperor class titan would be a bit OTT in game terms...

 

However if you can get SD AP1 weapons they are dangerous... as a 4+ will give you a roll again meaning you can actually chain pretty easily... baneblades and the like are not an issue and I'm sure that even things like Warlords could be in trouble :D

AP1 provides +1 against the vehicles damage chart, not the superheavy vehicles damage chart. The superheavy damage table can be found on pg 93 of the apocolypse rule book.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Well thats good to know, I wasnt aware at all that ap1 had no effect on super heavys.

[Hellios]

AP1 provides +1 against the vehicles damage chart, not the superheavy vehicles damage chart. The superheavy damage table can be found on pg 93 of the apocolypse rule book.

 

No AP1 provides +1 dmg on the SHV table is you are using an updated version of the table written in a book published after the game editions changed... I know it is not shown on the original APOC books.

[dswanick]

AP1 provides +1 against the vehicles damage chart, not the superheavy vehicles damage chart. The superheavy damage table can be found on pg 93 of the apocolypse rule book.

 

No AP1 provides +1 dmg on the SHV table is you are using an updated version of the table written in a book published after the game editions changed... I know it is not shown on the original APOC books.

 

Well, this being the official rules discussion section of the forums - where are you finding this damage chart of yours? What page of what GW publication?

[Hellios]

Well, this being the official rules discussion section of the forums - where are you finding this damage chart of yours? What page of what GW publication?

 

One such example would be IA:AII pg103.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Well, this being the official rules discussion section of the forums - where are you finding this damage chart of yours? What page of what GW publication?

 

One such example would be IA:AII pg103.

By having IA infront of it, it invalidates it as official rules.

[Hellios]

Well, this being the official rules discussion section of the forums - where are you finding this damage chart of yours? What page of what GW publication?

 

One such example would be IA:AII pg103.

By having IA infront of it, it invalidates it as official rules.

 

Please quote the rule that says anything with IA in front of it is unofficial... Hell everywhere I've played APOC games has considered Forge world datahsheets and so on official...

 

If that isn't enough the book says that the rules section specifically (that is the bit that talks about what makes a GC a GC, how SHVs work and so on) has been updated to work with 5th ed and should be considered an official <_<

 

And since this book is published by GW... and this is apocalypse... I see no issues with it...

 

IGNORE GREY MAGE!!! This is stated as an official update to the rules opposed to some other FW books which are unofficial.

[Grey Mage]

Well, this being the official rules discussion section of the forums - where are you finding this damage chart of yours? What page of what GW publication?

 

One such example would be IA:AII pg103.

By having IA infront of it, it invalidates it as official rules.

 

Please quote the rule that says anything with IA in front of it is unofficial... Hell everywhere I've played APOC games has considered Forge world datahsheets and so on official...

 

If that isn't enough the book says that the rules section specifically (that is the bit that talks about what makes a GC a GC, how SHVs work and so on) has been updated to work with 5th ed and should be considered an official :)

 

And since this book is published by GW... and this is apocalypse... I see no issues with it...

Its not GW, its not official.

 

I use IA in apocalypse regularly- and by opponents consent. If you want to start a thread about the legality of IA rules, again, your welcome to do. Please do not start one here.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

So does melta still get its +1 vs super heavys? ^_^

[Grey Mage]

So does melta still get its +1 vs super heavys? :lol:

No, unless you agree to use IA rules in your game- wich spearhead does not. It uses the rules in GWs Apocalypse, and Apoc:Reloaded.