Using Scouts against Imperial Guard

[VonMerrick]

I played my first match against the Imperial Guard over the weekend and although I won the game handily, I was dissapointed in the squad of sniper scouts I used. I had then equipped with 3 sniper rifles, a Missile Launcher, Camo Cloaks, and a "Counts as" Telion. They were depolyed in cover but due to the terrain on the field ( and probably my own rusty playing skills) seemed too detached from my main force. While they didn't take a single casualty even though they were fired at late in the game, the sniper rifles did nothing, and the missile launcher failed to penetrate his banewolf. The only good point was the stalker pattern bolter which did take out the Platoon Commander. Is this squad worth the 150 points I'm sinking into it at 1000pts or should this be used for other items such as rhinos/drop pods as I don't have any transports at the momment in my 1K force?

[tahrikmili]

3 Sniper Rifles aren't worth it.. You're better off with just 5 Sniper Rifles and trying to pin his units or just skipping them and taking only the Missile Launcher and 4 Bolters..

 

In opinion anyway..

[VonMerrick]

I'm leaning toward more bolters as the Telion Upgrade is worth it against some opponents but against his guard there wasn't really wasn't a squad guy that I had to take down that justifies his 50 points.

 

Would a Land Speeder storm with 4 BP and CCW scouts with a Power Weapon and melta bombs on the Sarge make more use of the points? This option is 5 points cheaper and would be useful to take out his heavy weapon teams which hang back in the corner.

[mowglie]

I'm leaning toward more bolters as the Telion Upgrade is worth it against some opponents but against his guard there wasn't really wasn't a squad guy that I had to take down that justifies his 50 points.

 

Would a Land Speeder storm with 4 BP and CCW scouts with a Power Weapon and melta bombs on the Sarge make more use of the points? This option is 5 points cheaper and would be useful to take out his heavy weapon teams which hang back in the corner.

 

There are lots of uses for 5 CCW scouts in a LSS. Add melta-bombs, combi-melta, pf to taste (I prefer the PF for 150 points including a vanilla Storm). They can engage a wide variety of high-priority targets very early in the game, and they can steal objectives on the last turn from miles away.

 

It's not usually considered "competitive" though as an experienced player will be wise to the trick and screen his important stuff. That's especially true for an IG player who has no shortage of expendable bodies.

 

Sniper scouts are really bad though. Vs many armies they won't have anything to shoot at. Even if they do have a worthwhile target, just about every other shooty unit in the SM book outshoots them because of their BS3. Telion has his uses, but I wouldn't take him in an all-comers list.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

vs guard you use scouts to outflank in a land speeder storm, since its open topped you can jump out and charge his artillery or leman russ'. bring the powerfists and meltabombs, krak grenades work just fine too. but leave the sniper rifles at home.

 

scout bikers can be used the same way, zipping around firing str6 grenade launchers at heavy tanks rear armor right before they charge it, usually destroying it.

[Leonaides]

VS IG and using tellion? Target those junior officers till they drop dead and make your life easier by cutting down on his orders. But sniper rifles are wasted against T3 models, as a bolter wounds easier (only a 3+) and the extra range is unlikely to matter much (If you've got nothing to shoot at within 24" then you've probably already won the game).

[spjaco]

This is why I love my Wolf Scouts. :P

[ShinyRhino]

Sniper Scouts are best fielded in a group of 10. Missile launcher or heavy bolter is up to you to decide on, as there's been plenty of debate on the issue here at B&C, and it boils down to personal preference. Snipers need as many shots as possible in a turn, because half the shots you fire will miss (statistically, anyways), and half again will wound. Current IG armies don't worry too much about Morale and Pinning tests, as Straken and/or Commisars are the orderof the day. You might get lucky and pin a unit, but don't rely on it.

Infiltrated Scout Snipers can actually be moderately more useful by taking side-on shots at Chimeras, instead of the infantry. Sniper rifles hit at S3 against vehicles, and should you Rend on the AP roll, you will auto-Glance with the bonus d3 roll, and can penetrate 2/3 of the time. It's a looooong shot, but in my opinion, better than taking out two Guardsmen per turn with a 10-man unit.

[mowglie]

Sniper Scouts are best fielded...

 

Under what circumstances would one want a squad of sniper scouts, as opposed to 150-ish points of just about anything else in the codex?

 

What targets would you say they are effective enough against to justify their selection?

[ShinyRhino]

Sniper Scouts are best fielded...

 

Under what circumstances would one want a squad of sniper scouts, as opposed to 150-ish points of just about anything else in the codex?

 

What targets would you say they are effective enough against to justify their selection?

 

The "ideal" target for sniper rifles are models with high Toughness, like Tyranid MCs and such. The auto-wound on 4s, with Rends on 6s forces saves on those units, some of which they will fail. Rending is great against Nid monsters, since the majority don't have invulnerable saves. Don't waste sniper shots on Zoanthropes. You can take those down with a single blast of bolter fire :D

 

I think the general consensus has been that snipers are a sub-optimal unit selection, unless taken in a very Scout-heavy force. Every army has some way to mitigate the effects of Pinning these days, be it Fearlessness, high Leadership, or rerolls to failed tests.

 

Snipers are fun, and their imagery is sexy, but they're a very hard unit to use properly.

[captain sox]

The thing about Sniper Rifles is the range... I'll take the extra 12" over the Bolt Guns. However, 3 Snipers is weak... you need to field them in numbers. Also, with Telion, us his BS with the Missile Launcher Scout and fire Krak's at his weaker tanks etc...

[Fetterkey]

I would definitely take a sniper rifle over a bolter for most Scout squads. Their main purpose is to hold objectives, after all, and the sniper rifle is much better when attacking from the backfield-- both thanks to its extra range and the potential to pin or rend the target.

[Br0ther Rafen]

I think that Snipers are quite good in games, but it depends on the army your versing. SM's, Eldar and other low-number high-qauility troop armys they are wuite useful. Against Hordes however, they suck. CCW scouts are very useful.

[Ryjak]

A unit of Sniper Scouts has two potential targets, and one role. Shoot high-Toughness models, or force a Pin check. Use them to hold an objective that your opponent will have a tough time assaulting, usually because something else in your army can actively guard it from an assault.

 

Any casualties past the one causing the Pin check are simply bonus. If you add Telion, you can now pick off special models in regular squads, or make the Heavy Weapon accurate. That added utility is very situational; sometimes it's priceless, sometimes pointless.

[Icechiang]

I have both snipers and the 5 man squad in a storm and love them both. Like others said, drop the snipers in cover on an objective and just pot shot at good targets. Also, you'd be surprised at infiltrating them along a flank and then pour on the shots. You might annoy/threaten the player enough for him to divert units to deal with the scouts, thus sparing other units. I love the storm. Popular internet theory says it is bad, but its down to personal taste I say. Personally I think the model is great and its fun using the scout move, and then assaulting early. Also, with the cereberus launchers, especially on IG, you have a good chance of making the enemy unit lose, fail leadership, and make them break. Slap a heavy flamer on the storm, run up, disembark, flame, shoot and assault, and you got a severely depleted enemy unit. Plus having the option to late game rush to nab objectives is quite useful.

[rat of vengence]

A LSS with heavy flamer, 5 scouts BP/CCW and Powerfist have NEVER failed to be worth their points to me. A fast, choppy, heavy flamer toting outflanking scoring unit? Yes please! Pick an isolated unit, flame it, assault it, profit. Often, if you have picked well, the surviving scouts re-embark to try it again, or hunker down on an objective. :D

The only consideration for me is the heavy competition for Fast Attack slots with Assault Marines, Landspeeders and bikes.

 

RoV