least nonsense Primarch

[Tutteman]

Alpharious isn't a very no-nonsense guy.

 

It's explicitly stated in the fluff that Alpharious generally took these the long way around, and where other Primarchs would do things the easy way, Alpharious took pains over doing the long thing.

 

As for the most no-nonsense guy; Fulgrim.

 

The prime example for this is the Learan Campaign. Imperial Logistics scientists estimated a long war that would last decades. It took a month.

 

But he took horrific (by Astartes standards) casulaties. It's stated even before the final attack that his captains are shocked by the level of their brothers killed etc. And his pride leads him into this (and loses his pretty banner if I recall correctly.)

 

Horus does claim Sanguinius should have been warmaster. He does so while on his "deathbed" I believe, in False Gods.

 

I would put it possibly on Gulliman, bit of a guess really but then we are dealing with a fictional universe :D . I know much of his skill was logistics but it is also mentioned while greater recruitment was one reason for his legion's size it also generally took less losses...Implying he was good at his job. Or (shoot me for heresy) Horus?

[Hellios]

I would put it possibly on Gulliman, bit of a guess really but then we are dealing with a fictional universe :lol: . I know much of his skill was logistics but it is also mentioned while greater recruitment was one reason for his legion's size it also generally took less losses...Implying he was good at his job. Or (shoot me for heresy) Horus?

 

But having more men could help you complete a campaign with less soldiers... In a certain game I play I try to wage war in two ways... first I try and keep the peace to build up my economy and it is that which has allowed me to do well... I have more people, more money and produce more and so when I go to war I win... because I have more resources and then I take more land and use that to make more money... I then have relativly few strong forces placed in key areas of travel... I control the road so to speak... so I at least know someone is coming and slow them down... even if I don't stop them... However when at War with a powerful enemy I will keep creating forces and use them to grind down the enemies forces... I might lose 1,000 men but I can replace them more quickly than the enemy can replace theirs... I also ruin their economy so again they find it harder to recover... this is a slow and painful war but it works but it is not ideal...

 

However when I face only one enemy or ones that are weaker I will have time to mass up a large force and strike critical blows and win in far less time and with less loses although I probably used less resources...

 

What is my point? Not everyones situation is the same at least not all the time... it seems when people find a really tough nut to crack they often get the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists in to do the job for them... so if they take more casualties is that because their primarchs are not as good or is it because they have a harder job... a hard battle can be more costly than an easy war... if you get my point...

 

However we really know very little about all the primarchs and their activites...

[Skirax]

I would put it possibly on Gulliman, bit of a guess really but then we are dealing with a fictional universe :jaw: . I know much of his skill was logistics but it is also mentioned while greater recruitment was one reason for his legion's size it also generally took less losses...Implying he was good at his job. Or (shoot me for heresy) Horus?

 

But having more men could help you complete a campaign with less soldiers... In a certain game I play I try to wage war in two ways... first I try and keep the peace to build up my economy and it is that which has allowed me to do well... I have more people, more money and produce more and so when I go to war I win... because I have more resources and then I take more land and use that to make more money... I then have relativly few strong forces placed in key areas of travel... I control the road so to speak... so I at least know someone is coming and slow them down... even if I don't stop them... However when at War with a powerful enemy I will keep creating forces and use them to grind down the enemies forces... I might lose 1,000 men but I can replace them more quickly than the enemy can replace theirs... I also ruin their economy so again they find it harder to recover... this is a slow and painful war but it works but it is not ideal...

However when I face only one enemy or ones that are weaker I will have time to mass up a large force and strike critical blows and win in far less time and with less loses although I probably used less resources...

 

What is my point? Not everyones situation is the same at least not all the time... it seems when people find a really tough nut to crack they often get the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists in to do the job for them... so if they take more casualties is that because their primarchs are not as good or is it because they have a harder job... a hard battle can be more costly than an easy war... if you get my point...

 

However we really know very little about all the primarchs and their activites...

Is this a Total War game, by chance?

[Legatus]

The Ultramarines did not start out with having a larger Legion than the others. They grew over the course of the Great Crusade, and as Tutteman said, part of that was the way they had organised their recruitment, but another was that the Legion generally suffered the fewest casualties.

 

From the 2nd Edition Codex Ultramarines, page 12:

 

"Thanks to their usual thoroughness of organisation, the Ultramarines were able to receive constant recruits throughout the Great Crusade. Because of its strong recruitment base and Roboute Guilliman's tactical expertise the Ultramarines soon became the largest Space Marine Legion, having more recruits than any other Legion and suffering fewer casualties."

 

It should also be noted that the Ultramarines were able to conquer worlds faster than any other Legion before they became the largest, as that fact is often dismissively attributed to their size. The Codex Ultramarines attributes that to how they were setting up stable governments and defenses, in addition to trade and supply routes with all of the worlds they conquered. I assume what that means is that the Ultramarines never had to return to an already conquered world because it was attacked by alien raiders, and they never had to wait to resupply or reinforce, so were allways free to proceed to the next world where the other Legions might have been delayed for such reasons. The Codex Ultramarines describes how they were ablo to make such good progress before explaining that they eventually grew into the largest Legion (see quote above).

[shatter]

Sanguinius.

 

No axe to grind.

 

No squabbling.

 

No delusions of grandeur. (He simply was grand and yet as humble as a Primarch could be)

 

The passions of a humanist.

 

Held the gate despite foreknowledge of it leading to his doom.

 

No nonsense whatsoever.

 

He surely was his father's son.

[calgar101]

If you mean no nonsense as in gets the job done ect ect then all the Primarchs are pretty much equal however one to me stands out. Guilliman. Read the first 40 or so pages of The First Heretic and you'll see that he does not take no messing, does not allow personal emotions or feelings to cloud his view or judgement; he gets the job done as best he can.

[Brother Captain Kezef]

I notice Russ is being ignored.

 

He takes what are essentialy vikings, trains them in modern weaponry, organises them to take best advantage of thier natural abilities and leads a campaighn that destroys an entire astartes legion inone day.

 

This guy is a no nonesence, see the enemy, destroy the enemy kind of bloke.

 

The wolves are NOT barbarians they work together, they use tactics and strategy advancing through cover under the fire suport of long fangs, they use blood claws to break enemy lines and cioncentrations while the grey hunters use a combiation of strategy and bloody handed violence to eliminate the enemy.

 

He's no diplomat like Horus or Sanguinius, may lack the strategic genius of Guillaman or the Lion. But Russ is a the no nonesense, Chuck Norris, of the Primarchs.

[Hyperion]

Well done Blood Angel Scout for mentioning Jaghatai Khan.

 

As you might guess from my avatar, I'm slightly biased, but with good reason...

 

The Khan successfully adapted his homeworld tactics for the 'nightmare battlefields of the Heresy' and had a sensible approach to Librarians (Storm Seers).

 

Horus misjudged/underestimated him when he thought the Khan would side with the traitors - Horus's greatest mistake, since the White Scars successfully helped defend Terra. If Horus had been right and the White Scars had turned, then there is no way the Imperial Fists and Blood Angels could have held.

 

Furthermore, Dorn and Sanguinius were intent only on defending the walls of the Palace, and it was only the Khan who had the tactical vision to lead an assault on the Lions Gate Spaceport to stem the tide of traitor reinforcements (which would otherwise have overwhelmed the loyalists).

 

Least nonsense: Jaghatai Khan.

[Ubermensch Commander]

Well done Blood Angel Scout for mentioning Jaghatai Khan.

 

As you might guess from my avatar, I'm slightly biased, but with good reason...

 

The Khan successfully adapted his homeworld tactics for the 'nightmare battlefields of the Heresy' and had a sensible approach to Librarians (Storm Seers).

 

Horus misjudged/underestimated him when he thought the Khan would side with the traitors - Horus's greatest mistake, since the White Scars successfully helped defend Terra. If Horus had been right and the White Scars had turned, then there is no way the Imperial Fists and Blood Angels could have held.

 

Furthermore, Dorn and Sanguinius were intent only on defending the walls of the Palace, and it was only the Khan who had the tactical vision to lead an assault on the Lions Gate Spaceport to stem the tide of traitor reinforcements (which would otherwise have overwhelmed the loyalists).

 

Least nonsense: Jaghatai Khan.

 

 

thats...a bit of an exaggeration.

 

While I may not care much for Dorn, he was a master of Siege warfare. The idea of a sally is not brillant or innovative. It is part and parcel of being besieged.

While Jaghatai Khan may have lead the attack with his typical astute mastery of lightning warfare, to say he is the only one who thought it up is hardly accurate.

And as for the entire defense of Terra hinging on Khan being there...well I somehow doubt it. Integral to the defense? Certainly. Horus Greatest Mistake? Hardly.

 

One thing I think should be clarified for this thread is what exactly is meant by "least nonsense Primarch."

Does that mean the one with the most self-control? The who tried the direct approach? The one who achieved the most gains (tactically or strategically) for the least effort? Or the one(s) that used everything and more at their disposal?

[The Emperor's Champion]

If by "least nonsense" you mean the Primarch that would fight when a fight was needed, avoid a fight when victory could be more easily achieved another way, not lose his head in battle to anger or pure stubbornness, plan everything out when a plan was needed, or act on instinct when action was needed; then the answer is quite simply Guilliman. He's the only Primarch that really mastered the whole range of ways to fight wars (that we can be sure of).

 

Dorn, Mortarion, The Lion, Perturabo, and others would get bogged down by issues of pride or simply their relentless attitudes.

A great many of the Primarchs simply disregarded any alternatives to battle (like saying "Surrender!").

Several of the Primarchs were too melee focused.

Magnus was too focused on magic and ranged weapons.

Many of the Primarchs had tempers that they didn't have a proper handle on.

Several Primarchs would go completely over the top with planning things that weren't necessary or useful to the systematic conquest of the galaxy.

Some Primarchs would go to war without any sort of plan beyond "do that thing we always do".

 

It's possible that Vulkan, Corax, Sanguinus, and maybe some others were level-headed and flexible too, but we really don't know much about how a lot of them operated, so the answer is Guilliman.

[Legatus]

Hors was perhaps even more of an allrounder than Guilliman. His diplomatic effords are pointed out in the Lunar Wolves Index Astartes. But Horus was also a bit of a glory hound, though.

[Brother Rathul]

My vote for the "No Nonsense" Primarch, assuming the timeline is when all 18 are still loyal and on crusade, would be Rogal Dorn.

 

I agree, I think it was dorn followed by gulliman, horus and fulgrim

I second that motion, he was sent back to defend Terra and did he whine about it, no! A lotof the Primarchs wine and complain, such as Pertaraubo, Fulgrim, and Horus.

[Servus Christi]

My choice is Dorn. He was pretty much no-nonsense in everything he did.

 

IMO Dorn is good for building/defensive quality but lacks an element of control when attacking i.e. zealous to an extent, not level headed.

 

Unlike the Iron Warriors, Dorn and the Fists didn't stretch themselves thin by building bunkers on every planet in the galaxy. Dorn spent as much time, if not more time, taking walls down as building them up. You cannot say that Dorn was not level-headed when attacking when all the fluff says otherwise. Dorn and the Fists were known for their meticulous planning whether on the defensive or offensive.

 

Sadly, too many people seem to think the Iron Cage was something of the norm for the Fists. The reason it's really so remarkable, in my opinion, is because of the complete lack of regards to planning which was so out of character for Dorn. Something which helps highlight the emotional effects the Siege and its aftermath had had on him.

 

[. . .]

 

Well, it helped that unlike the Angel and Dorn, the Khan wasn't barricaded behind the walls trying to keep them up. I wont deny the monumental importance the Khan played in the defence of Terra though. White Scars, Imperial Fists and Blood Angels are really the only Chapters I am considering playing right now, because of their long and glorious history, and that it was they who defended Holy Terra and the Emperor whilst the Smurfs were busy doing the numbers on the Imperial Budget, the Wolves were doing a pub-crawl on their way home and Bullet for my Valentine (Dark Angels) were stuck as the designated-driver for the Wolves.

[Brother Ambroz]

I notice Russ is being ignored.

 

He takes what are essentialy vikings, trains them in modern weaponry, organises them to take best advantage of thier natural abilities and leads a campaighn that destroys an entire astartes legion inone day.

 

This guy is a no nonesence, see the enemy, destroy the enemy kind of bloke.

 

The wolves are NOT barbarians they work together, they use tactics and strategy advancing through cover under the fire suport of long fangs, they use blood claws to break enemy lines and cioncentrations while the grey hunters use a combiation of strategy and bloody handed violence to eliminate the enemy.

 

He's no diplomat like Horus or Sanguinius, may lack the strategic genius of Guillaman or the Lion. But Russ is a the no nonesense, Chuck Norris, of the Primarchs.

 

For good reason. The reason Russ was able to inflict so much damage on the Thousand Sons is because Magnus shielded the planet so his marines wouldn't know what was about to happen. Also he sent his entire fleet away. He pretty much laid his legion out on a silver platter for Russ.

 

I would have to say as far as least nonsense primarch goes it would be Kurze, Guilliman or Perturabo.

[hazardousZERO]

IN the defense of my lord Angron. Yes his favorite tactic is CHARGE!!!! However in the HH book Galaxy In Flames two marines (Travits and Loken?) talk about how Angron only knows one tactic but they say he probably knows others but just likes his tactic more. Also in the Collected Visions he tells Khârn "Fast we moved, fast, not hanging between walls, entrapment is death, fast, trust and discipline...Never rest, always forwards, hunger for the enemy, that"s what they taught us..."

 

So he did know other things he just liked the CHARGE!!! tactic the most.

[vonny]

In defense of Angron, he didn't just charge headlong at the enemy. He charged headlong into the enemy the World Eaters way, which didn't only use their superior close combat prowess to full effect (read battle for the abyss and see how the ultramarine gets bogged down, to be rescued by world eaters twice in a row by them just storming over the opposition).

The biggest effect of charging the World Eater's way was the psychological effect. They're really really scary when they come and charge and then hack a really big hole in your defensive line.

(and also, in battle for the abyss again, the world eater captain actually survives in the bowels of the ship for quite a long time by being wise and picking the right fights. The squad (when it was still such) didn't charge headlong at the guys at the end of the hallway, but opened a panel in the ceiling and went 'round.

Leads to think Angron knows there's different ways, but charging headlong with the World Eater legion was often very effective and had the added morale shock bonus.

 

I do think Sanguinus is a fairly good choice (but I'm biased) for all the reasons previously mentioned. All the primarchs seemed to love him, and he seemed to love them all back. He was noble but humble, didn't pick fights, and did what had to be done for the greater good, even if it meant sacrificing his own life for it. I think that's pretty noble.

 

When it comes to no-nonsense though, to me that sounds like "getting the job done". And in their own way, ALL the primarchs were experts at that.

[Brother-chaplain Astador]

Guilliman.

 

He is even described in the latest HH books as 'lacking emotion'

 

Even his discussion with Lorgar the 'no-nonsense attitude is Evident'

 

the confrontation becomes heated, and Guilliman keeps his head, I cannot imagine Russ, and definately not Angron, reacting in that way.

[Purge The Weak]

For least nonsense!

 

Angron or Kurze...

 

Angron because he massacred a full world in 1 night, and wouldn't take :rolleyes: from anyone.

 

Kurze, because he got thr toughest mentally draining jobs and accomplished them. When dorn give him crap he attacked him, he ransacked worlds when the big E rebuked him and blew up his home world when he found out it wasn't as he left it.

What more could be no nonsense. I bet he never had virus bombs in his inventry :verymad: Haha!