Are Skyclaws Underappreciated?

[Khavos]

I'm a big fan of jump packers, but Skyclaws just don't seem like they're worth it, especially not with access to Thunderwolf Cavalry. I wanted to see just how not worth it they are, though, so I plugged some numbers into Heresy Online's combat calculator, and thought I'd share the results. As far as I can tell, the Mathhammer's correct.

 

I made the assumption that Skyclaws are no good without a Wolf Priest, so what I ran through was the following:

 

10 Skyclaws - Power Weapon, MotW, Meltagun

1 Wolf Priest - Jump Pack

 

This comes out to 345 points. I compared them against a TWC unit with identical cost:

 

5 Thunderwolf Cavalry - 1 TH&SS, 1 SS, 1 Melta Bombs, 1 Bolter. Fairly standard wound allocation setup, I believe.

 

I wanted to run numbers against a standard MEQ and against a traditional "rock" unit. I calculated with the Space Wolves getting the charge. MotW was simply assumed to grant an average of 3 attacks.

 

Against 10 Tactical Marines:

Skyclaws inflict 7 unsaved wounds.

TWC inflict 4.528 unsaved wounds.

 

Against 5 TH/SS Terminators:

Skyclaws inflict 3.44 unsaved wounds.

TWC inflict 1.917 unsaved wounds.

 

These are vacuum numbers; they take no account of shooting prior to assault, and they do not take into account the assaulted unit striking back. They do show that Skyclaws are better killers than I thought they were.

 

The trouble is, they're a one-shot unit. Assuming they get the charge, they will probably put a lot of hurt on whatever they're going after, and if a Jump Lord is with them, they'll paste it. But they'll take a lot of damage back, and when they destroy whatever they're attacking, they're just going to get shot up.

 

So what is it that makes TWC so universally praised and Skyclaws so universally despised? Is it just that TWC are more durable, despite being significantly less killy?

[CainTheHunter]

Well, they have their uses and I am currently experimenting with such unit, though I decided to give them Mark and power fist + flamer (no need for BS 3) and PF and flamer are on the same model. Unlike TWC they can't be placed against really hard units, but they are rather good in a harrasing role and better against infantry than MC and vehicles. I'd assume that people expect a lot of performance from TWC and not that much from Skyclaws. If You are among them and don't expect too much from Skyclaws, they will not diasapoint You and will do their job properly. Just don't ask them to do thing, which TWC do better.

You said You did not take into account the enemy striking back at them - remember here that TWC are SW nob-bikers in the sense of wound allocation shennanigans and just refuse to die, while Skyclaws take wounds and die as normal marines.

[Jonas Stromclaw]

I play against both orks and tau A LOT and skyclaws are invaluable against both. Whether hunting down crisis suits or denying that blob squad of ork boys their furious charge, the little psychopaths perform outstandingly.

[TheReverend]

Skyclaws are always under-appreciated, especially by your opponent, which is exactly why you should take them ;)

[Wysten]

As a note, largely Thunder Wolve packs are used in smaller packs of three nowadays so that they can have the flexability of two different packs with the ability to take a Thunder Hammer on both. They cost 360, though not quite sure how much of a difference it makes.

 

One importent difference is durability though, if Skyclaws take a wound, they lose killing power. While the same pack of Thunder wolf can take 5 wounds before it starts losing out on killing power and are individally more duriable, meaning that on an actual field of battle the results are likely to be different.

[Captain Idaho]

Skyclaws are always under-appreciated, especially by your opponent, which is exactly why you should take them ;)

 

You know I was looking through the stats and rules of the Bloodclaws and their ilk, and I really don't think they are that bad. They hit on 4+ against most opponents the same as Grey Hunters after all.

[Grey Mage]

You know what is under appreciated though? Searchy.

 

This comes up about once a week of late... alot of good thoughts on the matter have been thrown out. You should check out those other threads.

[Anpu42]

Also remember Skyclaws and TWC have two compleatly defferent Jobs.

 

Skyclaws are Deep Strike Infantry Hunter

Thunderwolves are a Shock Troops Unit who can take down infantry and Tanks.

[The_Betrayed_Spacewolf]

You know what is under appreciated though? Searchy.

 

This comes up about once a week of late... alot of good thoughts on the matter have been thrown out. You should check out those other threads.

 

 

damned for thread necromancy or damned for making a new thread. then again its one of the few new topics that actually interest me the great and all mighty meh.

 

since october ive hated blood claws and still do (btw) even after trying sky claws i find that one must load up on jump pack troops if your going to make them work as one squad will just get shot to pieces.

[fandon]

I've never used skyclaws, they seem cool but I'd rather run TWC, scouts or Terminators. If you ask me they have their place in Space Wolves but fit into C:BA as troops or with Shryk (sp?) in C:SM a little better.

[xxvaderxx]

To be honest, i dont quite like them. A fully decked out unit of skyclaws, costs the same as a fully decked out unit of Grey hunters including transport and in my opinion the GH are troops and way more versatile. And that is with out counting the guard or HQ that you need to actually fire of the flamers before the assault.

[Anpu42]

I find Skyclaws very useful. The few things I have learned.

 

They are not Vehicle Hunters, they are Infantry Hunters. The only time you should go after a vehicle is if you have an unmoving or immobilized unit. Give them a Wolf Priest with a Jump Pack, Flamer, MotW and a Power Fist.

 

Size: Just take them in 10 man Squads, you will need the Number of Attacks.

 

Combat

-The Flamer: BS-3 why roll to hit

-MotW: Just brutal especially with the Wolf Priest, with all of the Re-Rolls you almost double your chances of Rending.

-Power Fist: It only takes one encounter with a Dreadnaught to relise you need this more than a Power Weapon.

 

Deployment and Movement

-Deep Strike: This is actually a good way top get them killed some times. If you have a lot of terrain land behind it. With out the ability to Assault the turn you arrive and your BS of 3 you are not going to hit with much. [However in a Planetstrike mission, just go for it.]. You could use them to come in late to move opponents off of Objectives.

-Normal Deployment: Cover, Cover, and then run for more Cover, that’s how to move until you get into their backfield and then go after the soft Squishy stuff. If you can jump a Combat Squad or something else in though go for it.

[Grey Mage]

You know what is under appreciated though? Searchy.

 

This comes up about once a week of late... alot of good thoughts on the matter have been thrown out. You should check out those other threads.

 

 

damned for thread necromancy or damned for making a new thread. then again its one of the few new topics that actually interest me the great and all mighty meh.

 

since october ive hated blood claws and still do (btw) even after trying sky claws i find that one must load up on jump pack troops if your going to make them work as one squad will just get shot to pieces.

I dont consider it threadomancy until the topics about 5-7 months old... and even then, special circumstances may apply.

 

But thats just one mans opinion on the subject.

[Valerian]

You know what is under appreciated though? Searchy.

 

This comes up about once a week of late... alot of good thoughts on the matter have been thrown out. You should check out those other threads.

 

 

damned for thread necromancy or damned for making a new thread. then again its one of the few new topics that actually interest me the great and all mighty meh.

 

since october ive hated blood claws and still do (btw) even after trying sky claws i find that one must load up on jump pack troops if your going to make them work as one squad will just get shot to pieces.

I dont consider it threadomancy until the topics about 5-7 months old... and even then, special circumstances may apply.

 

But thats just one mans opinion on the subject.

 

Also, if you do the search and find the old topics and read through them, you might get the information that you were looking for without the need to actually post anything. Thus you avoid making a new thread, and you avoid threadomancy - there is no requirement to comment if all of the discussion has already been thoroughly conducted.

[Logan230]

You know what is under appreciated though? Searchy.

 

This comes up about once a week of late... alot of good thoughts on the matter have been thrown out. You should check out those other threads.

 

You are the last person to I expected to make a comment like that. Searchy is not exactly the most user-friendly search tool ever invented.

I believe this is one of those moments of "If you cant say something nice, dont say anything at all."

[Wysten]

But it's fair enough. It's not like there are a vast number of threads a day anyways. All you have to do is glance one or two pages back and chances are all the information there is valid. Provided it's not a month back or some simlarily rediculous time, it's fine really. It's not like the rules of the game changes that often.

 

Saves a lot of forum space about taking about the same thing and provides a valuable resource of debates between valued tacticains, much like the code.... (Is mauled by Thunder Wolves). XD

[Grey Mage]

You know what is under appreciated though? Searchy.

 

This comes up about once a week of late... alot of good thoughts on the matter have been thrown out. You should check out those other threads.

 

You are the last person to I expected to make a comment like that. Searchy is not exactly the most user-friendly search tool ever invented.

I believe this is one of those moments of "If you cant say something nice, dont say anything at all."

*sighs* Im not know for making attempts at humor? Because really, thats all this was. Unless your somehow taking objection to the second part, in wich case I have no idea at all what your problem is, those threads do have alot of good stuff in it, and the OP really should check them out.

 

Particularly when half this thread has been spent debating my recommendation to do so instead of peoples recommendations on skyclaws.