But what do you fear?

[lunchb0x]

Basically the same as other MEQ armies, AP1+2 and power weapon spam. Remember the FNP from priests and for DC gives you a save against AP3 weapons.

 

How do you figure this? The rule specificly states : This ability can not be used against woulds from weapons that inflict instant death ( by having high enough strength or a special rule to that effect; even if the model is an eternal warrior) Neither can it be used against wounds from AP1 or AP2 weapons, power weapons and any other wound that which no armour save can ever be taken (like wounds from power fists, dreadnought close combat weapons, rending weapons that roll a 6 , perils of the warp , failed dangerous terrain test, etc. )

If FNP didn't work for AP 3 weapons, then FNP on demons would never take it. An AP3 weapon is not a weapon that can never give an armor save.

 

 

Really? So if your armour is a 3+, and then you are hit with an AP3 weapon...which does never gives you an armour save...you get FNP? :lol:

 

I dont think so.

So nurgle demons, who ahve no armor, can never use their FNP?

 

Check the Official rules forum. Its pretty well accepted that AP3 does not remove FNP.

 

Dont nurgle demons have an invuln? ( i know nothing of demons. )

yes, but they have no armor save, which means they can never take an armor save, which would mean (if you are right on FNP) they can't use FNP.

 

It's clearly stated in the rulebooks, in ()'s right after the sentence that says CAN ever be taken. Now, it doesn't say can never be taken by a model with a 3+ save, it says ever taken. You can NEVER take an armour save from ap 1 or 2, never from a power weapon or power fist, or from a monstrous creature, a close combat weapon from a dread, rending, perils of the warp, failed dangerous terrain...but you CAN, take one from AP 3, even if you're power armoured, because it's possible, though not for the unit, to take an armour save. Thus is why FNP works against things that deny saves with AP3.

 

A little weird perhaps, but clearly stated in the rulebook. It doesn't specify can never be taken by that unit, it says specifically "no armour save can <ever> be taken" emphasis mine on the ever.

 

Wait so you do get an armour save from AP3 weapons? You said its possible to save an AP3 weapon if in power armour...which is an 3+...logic?

 

And big ups to Hiro for answering the demon question.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

People learning that I can't turn left

 

*Did I just think that or did I say it out aloud?*

why is that? are your turnsignals broken? :)

 

Have you ever wondered if there was more to life, other than being really, really, ridiculously good looking, even for a Son of Sanguinius?

[Hiro_Protagonist]

yes, but they have no armor save, which means they can never take an armor save, which would mean (if you are right on FNP) they can't use FNP.

 

But it's not the weapon that is allowing no armour save, they just never had one in the first place. So they CAN use FNP.

I know that. I'm trying to explain why AP 3 does not deny marines FNP.

 

Ok, it just sounded like you were saying daemons had no FNP because they have no armour. I agree, AP3 does NOT negate FNP for marines (or anyone else).

[calgaryBA]

Seeing somebody deploy Abaddon always gives me a quick rush of blood as I mentally scramble how to deal with that SOB.

[Chairman_woo]

Stupid wolf preists with the power that makes everything in 24" (i think) difficult and dangerous terrain to deepstrikers. Something like that I forget the exact rule, its a massive pain in the arse anyway (I hate living lightning more but thats cause I have Nids too)

[JamesI]

yes, but they have no armor save, which means they can never take an armor save, which would mean (if you are right on FNP) they can't use FNP.

 

But it's not the weapon that is allowing no armour save, they just never had one in the first place. So they CAN use FNP.

I know that. I'm trying to explain why AP 3 does not deny marines FNP.

 

Ok, it just sounded like you were saying daemons had no FNP because they have no armour. I agree, AP3 does NOT negate FNP for marines (or anyone else).

I was trying to point out if FNP worked the way Lunchbox suggests, demons could never use FNP.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

Okay, getting away from the AP3 vs. FNP thing. (Just take it to the Rules forum or something.)

 

Fast shot Tempest Launcher, unpleasant piece of equipment!

[Malus the Destroyer]

I hate Genestealers near my melta assault dudes, and tanks near my flamer assault dudes. Always seems to end up that way. Believe it or not, I despise Monoliths, C'tan Gods, Commisars, and BIG messes of Orks. The Blood Angel Death incentive plan has blanket coverage on just about everything else in multiple ways.

Oh, and I fear my friend Roland's Deathwing. Yes, I said it. Old school 4ed codex Dark Angel Deathwing. If you aren't enraptured by how beautiful and awesome they look, you become amazed at how mobile, 6 inches a time it may be, and have OVERWHELMING firepower at all ranges it packs. And powerfists a plenty to win almost every combat if you decide they are outshooting you, which they will.

[Terrahawk]

I'm very affraid of Plasma in general. And yes, I'm looking at you IG Vets. One round of decent Plasma shooting can really wreck your FNP squad.

[lunchb0x]

yes, but they have no armor save, which means they can never take an armor save, which would mean (if you are right on FNP) they can't use FNP.

 

But it's not the weapon that is allowing no armour save, they just never had one in the first place. So they CAN use FNP.

I know that. I'm trying to explain why AP 3 does not deny marines FNP.

 

Ok, it just sounded like you were saying daemons had no FNP because they have no armour. I agree, AP3 does NOT negate FNP for marines (or anyone else).

I was trying to point out if FNP worked the way Lunchbox suggests, demons could never use FNP.

 

Okay so i was going to post some really epic-ly awesome like it needs to be painted on the side of a van with shag carpet and captains chair awesome...but...i reflected on the demon comments...and the more I think about and read that bit about FNP in the book...I believe you guys are right. Though, trying to explain that to the local crew will be rather interesting.

[Crynn]

I hate Genestealers near my melta assault dudes, and tanks near my flamer assault dudes. Always seems to end up that way. Believe it or not, I despise Monoliths, C'tan Gods, Commisars, and BIG messes of Orks. The Blood Angel Death incentive plan has blanket coverage on just about everything else in multiple ways.

Oh, and I fear my friend Roland's Deathwing. Yes, I said it. Old school 4ed codex Dark Angel Deathwing. If you aren't enraptured by how beautiful and awesome they look, you become amazed at how mobile, 6 inches a time it may be, and have OVERWHELMING firepower at all ranges it packs. And powerfists a plenty to win almost every combat if you decide they are outshooting you, which they will.

 

My friend plays a deathwing list he probably wins more games than nearly anyone else at my local GW however I have not lost a single game to him. I find his army really quite easy to deal with. Granted if his 20 terminators ever made combat unscathed I would be in trouble but this never happens. I always can out shoot his deathwing with my BA's his landraiders just fall apart at range to my vindicators which can always just move back 12" and shoot again and stay out of assault range and if i find myself at the back of the board and he still has a landraider alive a few of my many melta guns sort that out. My army is more than a match for 1 or 2 of the DW termie squads in assault and that much barely makes CC with army if I decide not engage him as we as BA's are just so much faster.

 

My fear is IG plasma/melta vet in chimera combined with vedetta spam, that is one of the NO:1 ardboys lists that can be hurtfull to me, Fatecrusher can be hardish if done well and also a good eldar army with eldrad because of my use of Mephiston and a librarian dread. I havent lost to an eldar army yet but i figure its only a matter of time.

[Jakobus]

yes, but they have no armor save, which means they can never take an armor save, which would mean (if you are right on FNP) they can't use FNP.

 

But it's not the weapon that is allowing no armour save, they just never had one in the first place. So they CAN use FNP.

I know that. I'm trying to explain why AP 3 does not deny marines FNP.

 

Ok, it just sounded like you were saying daemons had no FNP because they have no armour. I agree, AP3 does NOT negate FNP for marines (or anyone else).

I was trying to point out if FNP worked the way Lunchbox suggests, demons could never use FNP.

 

Actually, FNP does not work against AP1 & AP2 weapon, Powerweapons and any other wound against which not around save can be taken.

So basically if the same attack was directed at someone with a 2+ armour save and they can take a normal armour save (not invun) you get FNP.

 

 

What I fear is Flamers of Tzeentch, I should have no problems with them.. but they always seem to cause me grief.

 

Oh and anything with the word LASH in it.