Rules Questions, Attempting to compile a list.

[Kunanaki]

Hi yall. I hope I'm not doing anything wrong in the forums, but I've got a few questions that I've been dying to ask, and I've not found a place that really answers them with a firm, unassailable certainty.

 

1. Assault Phase. Say I have an Assault Marine with a Power fist. He's in base contact with two vehicles. Can he split attacks between them? How about if his unit is, and he's within 2' of both.

 

Further clarification, can I split attacks between different units in combat from a single model?

 

2. Jump Packs and Difficult Terrain. I've heard a bit of back and forth about JP infantry moving through diffiicult terrain. Based on the wording of the rule book, I'd say that if they are walking or assaulting, unless specified like the SW's rune priest power, they do not have to take the test, unless they utilize their JP's to move. Assaulting into cover has no ill effect on them, like normal infantry.

 

3. Blood angel's Librarian and the Wings of Sanguinius. It states that you are allowed to "move as if he had a jump pack." Does this mean he takes difficult terrain tests, if in the rulebook it states that only Jump Infantry take that test, where as the type doesn't change with the Librarians.

 

4. Sword of Sanquine. According to the book, there is no time limit for the power. Hence, does this mean it's an entire game power? I'd like a final clarification, as even the faq did not address this specific problem.

 

5. Dreadnoughts and Sanq priests. This one seems simplistic, but clarification is required. Does a Dreadnought benefit from the Furious Charge from a Priest?

 

6. Blood Talon's and Armour. Does unsaved wounds also count as you are allowed to re roll on armour penetration rolls? For example, Dread Vs Dread, I glance the other dread, do I get another reroll to hit because it states any unsaved wound, and that one is unsaved? How about tanks?

 

7. Scouts and Vehicles. Can scouts take a dedicated transport? They do not specify. Also, if a scout squad begins its turn inside of a Stormraven gunship, does it get the scout move / infiltrate rules?

 

8. Vindicators, and scatter. If there is a scatter roll off of a unit, does the unit it scatter on get a cover save if the Vindicator can draw a direct line of sight? How about if it scatters behind the unit into another? Is it as if the Vindicator has fired directly upon that unit, and all rules apply, or does it originate differently?

 

9. The Blood Lance. It continues on, as if melting a hole. Does it offer cover saves? If so, why? It specifically states that it moves up and over units it doesn't wish to hit, for example units locked in close combat or friendly units.

 

10. Heavy Support Predator. Clarification upon if Storm Bolter and/or Hunter Killer Missile. Does this mean, for 10 points, you get both? By english language, I'd say yes, but I'd hate to cheat my opponents.

 

11. Psychic Powers. Per Player Turn or Per Over all turn? I hear arguments on both side for this.

 

12. Stormraven Gunship + Jet Packers. Based on the rulings of Descent of Angels, does it confer it to the vehicle as if the scout ruling?

 

13. Unleash rage. Specifies End of Turn, is that player turn or game turn?

 

 

It's all of the hard questions I could think of. If you have an answer, or can add one, please do. I'm trying to make a nice, easy to find place for people, instead of finding answers piece meal throughout the entire Forums.

[JamesI]

Hi yall. I hope I'm not doing anything wrong in the forums, but I've got a few questions that I've been dying to ask, and I've not found a place that really answers them with a firm, unassailable certainty.

 

1. Assault Phase. Say I have an Assault Marine with a Power fist. He's in base contact with two vehicles. Can he split attacks between them? How about if his unit is, and he's within 2' of both.

 

Further clarification, can I split attacks between different units in combat from a single model?

Yes, you can have a model split attacks. But if he is base contact with only 1 unit, all his attacks must go at that unit.

 

2. Jump Packs and Difficult Terrain. I've heard a bit of back and forth about JP infantry moving through diffiicult terrain. Based on the wording of the rule book, I'd say that if they are walking or assaulting, unless specified like the SW's rune priest power, they do not have to take the test, unless they utilize their JP's to move. Assaulting into cover has no ill effect on them, like normal infantry.

It can be argued they still take the tests, but I've never seen it played that way. Whats the point of moving as infantry if you still take the test?

 

3. Blood angel's Librarian and the Wings of Sanguinius. It states that you are allowed to "move as if he had a jump pack." Does this mean he takes difficult terrain tests, if in the rulebook it states that only Jump Infantry take that test, where as the type doesn't change with the Librarians.

I believe he still takes the test.

 

4. Sword of Sanquine. According to the book, there is no time limit for the power. Hence, does this mean it's an entire game power? I'd like a final clarification, as even the faq did not address this specific problem.

RAW is unclear. I play it as a single turn bonus.

5. Dreadnoughts and Sanq priests. This one seems simplistic, but clarification is required. Does a Dreadnought benefit from the Furious Charge from a Priest?

Yes.

 

6. Blood Talon's and Armour. Does unsaved wounds also count as you are allowed to re roll on armour penetration rolls? For example, Dread Vs Dread, I glance the other dread, do I get another reroll to hit because it states any unsaved wound, and that one is unsaved? How about tanks?

No, there is no bonus attacks from armor penetration.

 

7. Scouts and Vehicles. Can scouts take a dedicated transport? They do not specify. Also, if a scout squad begins its turn inside of a Stormraven gunship, does it get the scout move / infiltrate rules?

No dedicated transports for scouts, nad no scout/infiltrate for scouts starting in a storm raven.

 

8. Vindicators, and scatter. If there is a scatter roll off of a unit, does the unit it scatter on get a cover save if the Vindicator can draw a direct line of sight? How about if it scatters behind the unit into another? Is it as if the Vindicator has fired directly upon that unit, and all rules apply, or does it originate differently?

If the Vindicator has LOS to the unit hit, there is no cover (assuming not in area terrain). If it scatters into a unit that has cover (such as behind the original target) they get a cover save.

 

 

9. The Blood Lance. It continues on, as if melting a hole. Does it offer cover saves? If so, why? It specifically states that it moves up and over units it doesn't wish to hit, for example units locked in close combat or friendly units.

Nothing in the codex indicates it ignores cover.

 

10. Heavy Support Predator. Clarification upon if Storm Bolter and/or Hunter Killer Missile. Does this mean, for 10 points, you get both? By english language, I'd say yes, but I'd hate to cheat my opponents.

No, 10 points for 1 of them.

 

11. Psychic Powers. Per Player Turn or Per Over all turn? I hear arguments on both side for this.

Anything that says per turn means per player turn unless specifically mentioned as otherwise. So Psychic powers are per player turn.

 

12. Stormraven Gunship + Jet Packers. Based on the rulings of Descent of Angels, does it confer it to the vehicle as if the scout ruling?

Stormravens do not get DoA if jump packers are inside (I think that's whay you are asking)

 

13. Unleash rage. Specifies End of Turn, is that player turn or game turn?

Player turn.

[Solidus Veneris]

The above poster is correct on most of the answers. In regards to the first question I do believe it is stated in the core rules that a single model has to allocate all his attacks against a single opponent. Meaning a squad could allocate models to attack both vehicles but that a single model has to allocate all his attacks on just one. The wings power says he moves as if he had a jump pack, which means he moves as if he is jump infantry as that is what jump packs do. Also jump infantry only have to take dangerous tests during the movement phase, as the are considered to be moving on foot when running or making an assault.

[JamesI]

The above poster is correct on most of the answers. In regards to the first question I do believe it is stated in the core rules that a single model has to allocate all his attacks against a single opponent. Meaning a squad could allocate models to attack both vehicles but that a single model has to allocate all his attacks on just one.

Nope. If a model is in base contact with more than one opponent, he may split attacks between them. If he is in base contact with only one opponent, he must attack that opponent.

 

BRB p.41

Multiple Combats

 

Attacking

In multiple combats, when it is time for a model to attack, the following extra rules apply:

 

Models that were engaged with just one of the enemy units at the begining of the combat (before any model attacked) must attack that unit.

 

Models that were engaged with more than one enemy unit at the beginning of combat (before any model attacked) may split their attacks freely between those units. Declare how they are splitting their attacks immediately before rolling to hit

 

The FAQ added to the above that a model in base contact with only one unit must attack that unit, but if in base with both, or not in base but within 2 inches of both, you may split.

[Kunanaki]

Additional Rules Question.

 

Grenades. If you have the capability of rerolling the attacks, for example a chaplain or librarian, if you miss with the grenade, could you reroll it?

[JamesI]

Additional Rules Question.

 

Grenades. If you have the capability of rerolling the attacks, for example a chaplain or librarian, if you miss with the grenade, could you reroll it?

Chaplain, yes. Librarian, no.

 

To explain, chaplains give the ability to reroll attacks on the charge, using grenades is an attack. Librarians give preferred enemy, which doesn't work against vehicles.

[WarpWhisper]

Additional Rules Question.

 

Grenades. If you have the capability of rerolling the attacks, for example a chaplain or librarian, if you miss with the grenade, could you reroll it?

Chaplain, yes. Librarian, no.

 

To explain, chaplains give the ability to reroll attacks on the charge, using grenades is an attack. Librarians give preferred enemy, which doesn't work against vehicles.

 

Unless you are assaulting a walker with grenades, in which case preferred enemy would work, and therefore a librarian would give you the reroll. ^_^

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Additional Rules Question.

 

Grenades. If you have the capability of rerolling the attacks, for example a chaplain or librarian, if you miss with the grenade, could you reroll it?

Chaplain, yes. Librarian, no.

 

To explain, chaplains give the ability to reroll attacks on the charge, using grenades is an attack. Librarians give preferred enemy, which doesn't work against vehicles.

 

Unless the vehicle has a WS.

 

So yes it would work against some vehicles. Mostly walkers but a few other exceptions as stated above.

[juckto]

Can an assault sergeant upgrade his pistol and his chainsword?

 

Tactical sergeant specifically says "can replace his boltgun and/or bolt pistol" whereas assault sergeant says "can replace his pistol/chainsword"

[Jakobus]

Can an assault sergeant upgrade his pistol and his chainsword?

 

Tactical sergeant specifically says "can replace his boltgun and/or bolt pistol" whereas assault sergeant says "can replace his pistol/chainsword"

 

Yes, so it is possible for a Sergeant to have twin Lightning Claws etc

[Crynn]

Very good responses

 

The sang sword by RAW is entire game how you choose to play it is up to you

 

The predator by RAW sayd you can have both the hunter killer and the storm bolter for 10 points together however I play strictly RAW to avoid arguements however even I would never do this as the rules in RAW also give you the option of not being a complete asshat and paying 10 for each. So short yes you can have them both but raw also lets you pay for them seperate, do the right thing.

 

Wings of sanguinius says you move as if you were jump infantry but does not change your type, so by RAW you do not take difficult dangerous tests, how you choose to play it is up to you.

 

Psychic powers can be cast per PLAYER turn and I believe it states in the rule book that any psychic power that is said to last a TURN means PLAYER TURN. If you can't find anything in the rule book that says this then unleash rage will last a whole turn not player turn however I do remember the rulebook saying that turn refers to player turn in regards to psychic powers.

 

With grenades that is commonly done icorrectly with regards to re-rolls however the smart people on this forum have nailed it, chap yes lib no unless the vehicle has a weapon skill

 

Regards

 

Crynn

[Kunanaki]

Soon I'll be compiling a proper Q & A on the top, but at the moment I'm still gathering information.

 

New questions!

 

Power Fists and Strength Bonuses. When do you apply the + Str Bonus? After you've doubled base strength, or + the Str and then double it. After all, in the explanation of the rules, it states doubles the user's strength, but says nothing about unmodified strength like the initiative that is clearly clarified in the next sentence. I suppose Thunder Hammers fall into this category as well.

 

Order of Fire Precedence question. A dreadnought with frag cannon and magna grapple targets a razorback. Can he Fire at the Razorback with the Magna or Melta, pop the tank, and then frag the squad that disembarks? How about a unit of Assault Marines with Meltaguns, can they pop a transport and then fire upon that which disembarks, or are shots considered suddenly vanished and wasted?

 

That's all for now.

[JamesI]

Soon I'll be compiling a proper Q & A on the top, but at the moment I'm still gathering information.

 

New questions!

 

Power Fists and Strength Bonuses. When do you apply the + Str Bonus? After you've doubled base strength, or + the Str and then double it. After all, in the explanation of the rules, it states doubles the user's strength, but says nothing about unmodified strength like the initiative that is clearly clarified in the next sentence. I suppose Thunder Hammers fall into this category as well.

 

Order of Fire Precedence question. A dreadnought with frag cannon and magna grapple targets a razorback. Can he Fire at the Razorback with the Magna or Melta, pop the tank, and then frag the squad that disembarks? How about a unit of Assault Marines with Meltaguns, can they pop a transport and then fire upon that which disembarks, or are shots considered suddenly vanished and wasted?

 

That's all for now.

Page 7 of the rulebook states when you have multiple modifiers, always multiply before adding. So a powerfist with furious charge is strength 9.

 

A unit can only shoot at one other unit, so you can't fire a squads meltaguns at a transport then fire the bolt pistols at the guys inside (same for the dreadnought)

[Brother Nathan]

powerfists bonus str is in the rule book. when modding you double then add bonuses on (so you get 9)

Shooting fom a unit is similontanious, like an initive step. say i fire my tactical squad at a dred, i must declaire all thats firing at it, say las, melta and combi melta and all those bolters, and they must all be rolled unless say i roll the las firs and it destroyed, but even then if i said i was firing the combi melta as the melta part, i still count as firing that shot. so all the shots are wasted. really you should be rolling them altogether as the rule book says.

with your dread firing you must say you are firing at a rhino, and all the weapons, so melta, frag and magna. i must measure initial range so i cant fire the magna, pull it closer, open it with melta and thn frag cannon the people that fall out (sadly)so i fire at the dread 7 inches away hit itwith the melta at normal range, the magna and hopefully also the frag. then the thing is hopefully pulled closer and the cargo falls out. right beside mephy;)

Note if you fire at a transport and destroy it you can then assault the contents :lol:

[Kunanaki]

And the questions keep on Rolling.

 

My friend proposed a modeling question. He asked if he could model an Assault Marine with Height, using the brass tubing as they do in different pictures. What made it really a question was the fact that he wanted to put them quite a few inches up. Then asked, why would it matter for firing.

 

So, this is for my friend. Does a unit fire from it's position of it's guns, or from the base?

 

 

This is a question for me specifically because of the.....rather messed up answer in the FAQ of the blood angels.

 

Q: At what point does my model need to be in range

of a Sanguinary Priest to gain the bonuses of Furious

Charge?

 

A: When you put the bonuses to use, i.e. when the

model makes its close combat attacks.

 

My question is, does this mean that now I have to measure the distances of each INDIVIDUAL model from the priest before it applies, or does the ruling of the power itself, which states all friendly UNITS in range, gain the benefits? Was models basically used as just an example for your unit, or did they mean literally every single individual model.

 

This one I require cold hard fact, as it is a subject of heavy debate, and I want to walk into Tournaments with the right answers.

[Jakobus]

This is a question for me specifically because of the.....rather messed up answer in the FAQ of the blood angels.

 

Q: At what point does my model need to be in range

of a Sanguinary Priest to gain the bonuses of Furious

Charge?

 

A: When you put the bonuses to use, i.e. when the

model makes its close combat attacks.

 

My question is, does this mean that now I have to measure the distances of each INDIVIDUAL model from the priest before it applies, or does the ruling of the power itself, which states all friendly UNITS in range, gain the benefits? Was models basically used as just an example for your unit, or did they mean literally every single individual model.

 

This one I require cold hard fact, as it is a subject of heavy debate, and I want to walk into Tournaments with the right answers.

 

Nope, you just need one model from that unit to be in range.

The Sang Priest grants the benefit to the Unit, the unit is made up of models that makes its attacks

[WarpWhisper]

This is a question for me specifically because of the.....rather messed up answer in the FAQ of the blood angels.

 

Q: At what point does my model need to be in range

of a Sanguinary Priest to gain the bonuses of Furious

Charge?

 

A: When you put the bonuses to use, i.e. when the

model makes its close combat attacks.

 

Jakobus is right in his answer. I think the FAQ was addressing the (unscrupulous) practice of claiming that furious charge applied to all friendly troops before assault moves were made, i.e. dramatically increasing the size of the priest's 'bubble'. That FAQ answer was intended to make sure if you want to bonus from a priest, you take him along for the ride :D.

[JamesI]

This is a question for me specifically because of the.....rather messed up answer in the FAQ of the blood angels.

 

Q: At what point does my model need to be in range

of a Sanguinary Priest to gain the bonuses of Furious

Charge?

 

A: When you put the bonuses to use, i.e. when the

model makes its close combat attacks.

 

Jakobus is right in his answer. I think the FAQ was addressing the (unscrupulous) practice of claiming that furious charge applied to all friendly troops before assault moves were made, i.e. dramatically increasing the size of the priest's 'bubble'. That FAQ answer was intended to make sure if you want to bonus from a priest, you take him along for the ride :P.

Considering that's how Corbulo's bubble worked in 4th edition, I don't think its fair to call that unscrupulous.

[Jakobus]

Jakobus is right in his answer. I think the FAQ was addressing the (unscrupulous) practice of claiming that furious charge applied to all friendly troops before assault moves were made, i.e. dramatically increasing the size of the priest's 'bubble'. That FAQ answer was intended to make sure if you want to bonus from a priest, you take him along for the ride :lol:.

 

 

Oops, yeah I could have been a little clearer there

[WarpWhisper]

I think the FAQ was addressing the (unscrupulous) practice of claiming that furious charge applied to all friendly troops before assault moves were made, i.e. dramatically increasing the size of the priest's 'bubble'. That FAQ answer was intended to make sure if you want to bonus from a priest, you take him along for the ride :).

Considering that's how Corbulo's bubble worked in 4th edition, I don't think its fair to call that unscrupulous.

 

OK, I take your point that things had changed between the two Codexes, that in turn might have required some clarification in the FAQ as to the intent of Mr Ward when he wrote the rules, and could have also led to honest mistakes in usage from BA players used to the WD version. But to try and implement the older interpretation (which specifically mentioned the begining of the assault phase) on the new rules (which does not make that distinction at all) seems to me a little like trying to create a deliberate advantage when there is none.

 

I seriously think that if the rules in the WD had not ever stated 'from the begining of the assault phase', such an interpretation of the newer rules would have been immediately called out as cheating when first suggested. Hence my definition.

 

Oops, yeah I could have been a little clearer there

 

No, not at all mate; just thought that an explanation of the origins of the question might nelp to enlighten Kunanaki :)

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Although I see your point JamesI, WarpWhisper is also very correct. Loosing some wording in the rules and then expecting the rule to still be the same does seem like deliberately trying to take advantage when there is none.

I am just mostly happy that this whole issue was resolved in the FAQ. Even if they could have been clearer and used the term unit, not model, the ruling is now very clear and consistent.

[Kunanaki]

Welcome to another rendition of Rules Questions!

 

1. Tank Shock. What happens if you tank shock and a tank blocks you from compling the move? (Aka, you declare 18 inches, and at 17 inches you run into a tank?)

 

2. Visa Versa for Ramming.

 

3. Vehicles. When they are still alive, what are they counted as? What I mean is, are they Impassible Terrain, or just somehow gods that cannot be climbed / run over / dashed unless you are a skimmer or the like.

 

Can you land on a Vehicle? I've never seen ANY rules to this at all.

 

4. How do you get that 3+ cover save with a vehicle for the odd angles?

 

5. Assaulting. What happens when a Dreadnought assaults into cover? Does he also suffer the initiative one?

 

6. Magna Grapple. If you fire a magna grapple, then fire everything else, does the tugging happen before, after, or simo? For example. I have a meltagun and a Magna. I fire the magna and it hits, I fire the melta and it hits. Now, I roll for pen on magna, and it works, it then states that once you've done anything, you immediately do the next step of tugging the enemy to you.

 

Would I then get the extra D6 for the Melta?

 

How about if I fire the magna, can I wait to fire the Melta on the dread?

 

That concludes this rendition of........da Rules.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

so...basically you're trying to make a FAQ to be?

[GlauG]

3. ) Friendly Vehicles are like any other friendly model, you can move past them freely, but can't end a move on them. Enemy vehicles you can't move within 1" of

 

6. ) You shouldn't roll to hit with the Melta until AFTER you resolve the entire Magna Grapple shot. At which point it is treated as a separate attack from the same unit, so yes, you'd get the extra D6 if it had been dragged within 6".

[Leardinal]

1. Tank Shock. What happens if you tank shock and a tank blocks you from compling the move? (Aka, you declare 18 inches, and at 17 inches you run into a tank?)

 

2. Visa Versa for Ramming.

 

According to the rule book, ramming is a form of tank shock used on vehicles. This means if you declare the 18" and at 17" you run into a tank, the infantry you ran over across the way make tank shock tests and either run or move back into place, (tanks have right of way in this instance, the infantry will stop 1" away from the tank but as close to their original position as possible,) and then you would preform the ram on the intervening vehicle, and you will either move back to be 1" away, (imagine a rhino bouncing back after trying to ram a baneblade,) or either vehicle wrecks/explodes, leaving the position question moot (since you can be within 1" of terrain which is what the wrecked vehicle becomes).