Powergaming against the tyranids at 1500 points

[Prototype]

I have a few issues to settle with a local Nid player, so I'm looking for some help against them at 1500 points. The player usually favors the Trygon, Genestealers and a lot of gaunts/tervigons. Also usually has some Zoanthropes, an occassional Lictor/Deathleaper and occassional Gargoyles. So yeah, playing to win this one.

 

Off the top of my head I'm thinking of going for three Drop Pods, two with Furioso's (Blood Talons), and one with some form of squad with melta (possibly either honor guard or sternguard) to drop right next to one of his MC's and nuke it from orbit. Then probably a mix of Razorbacks (maybe just TL HBs to save points) and jump pack assault troops, all with meltas and powerfists. And maybe a squad of three attack bikes and possibly a landspeeder with HB/Heavy Flamer. Not sure about the HQ, I'm thinking that numbers are best against the Tyranids, but I heard Mephiston is awesome against the Tyranids.

 

Any suggestions? My gratitude in advance!

[SnorriSnorrison]

You might want to consider a Jp DC squad along with Lemartes or a basic Chap/Reclusiarch. For those points, you´ll get a unit that won´t have to fear any opponent(well...they´re fearless, after all. :lol: ) except maybe a Hive Tyrant. Lemartes is a beast, and if your opponent shoots them, make sure to lay one wound on Lemmy.

 

If you´re going the DC route, you can also use a DC Dread with Talons instead of the Furioso, uncontrollable yes, but also very effective and feared.

 

Mephiston is a strong character, but also very expensive. Against ´Nids, he will zzzap those Trygpons before they stuck their heads out of the ground, block the Zoans and beat up some Carnifexes. Oh, and Tervigons, of course. I think he is viable against the Swarm, as they lack AP 2 weapons.

On the other hand, a vanilla Librarian will work well too, but he needs to be used with a little more caution.

 

If your opponent favors Warriors, a Vindicator is a must. Instant Death served on a silver plate? Yes! ;)

 

Those Stealers will be the biggest pain, I´ve fought them countless times, and when they hit, they hit like a hammer. Bolter them to death, so the HB Razorbacks should provide some protection against them, but still watch out for them. :lol:

 

Or, to prevent your Librarian from the Death-Leaper´s ability to reduce his LD, a Furioso Librarian is a nice substitution.

 

 

Well, that´s it from me. Good luck brother, the Emperor protects.

 

 

Snorri

[Joasht]

You might want to consider a Jp DC squad along with Lemartes or a basic Chap/Reclusiarch. For those points, you´ll get a unit that won´t have to fear any opponent(well...they´re fearless, after all. ;) ) except maybe a Hive Tyrant. Lemartes is a beast, and if your opponent shoots them, make sure to lay one wound on Lemmy.

 

If you´re going the DC route, you can also use a DC Dread with Talons instead of the Furioso, uncontrollable yes, but also very effective and feared.

 

Mephiston is a strong character, but also very expensive. Against ´Nids, he will zzzap those Trygpons before they stuck their heads out of the ground, block the Zoans and beat up some Carnifexes. Oh, and Tervigons, of course. I think he is viable against the Swarm, as they lack AP 2 weapons.

On the other hand, a vanilla Librarian will work well too, but he needs to be used with a little more caution.

 

If your opponent favors Warriors, a Vindicator is a must. Instant Death served on a silver plate? Yes! :lol:

 

Those Stealers will be the biggest pain, I´ve fought them countless times, and when they hit, they hit like a hammer. Bolter them to death, so the HB Razorbacks should provide some protection against them, but still watch out for them. :)

 

Or, to prevent your Librarian from the Death-Leaper´s ability to reduce his LD, a Furioso Librarian is a nice substitution.

 

 

Well, that´s it from me. Good luck brother, the Emperor protects.

 

 

Snorri

Time to be the devil's advocate! Not necessarily blatantly disagreeing with your points, but some food for thought

 

1) DC are expensive with jump packs and Lemartes; almost prohibitively so. If you take them then they would be more or less your only true hammer unit, because at 1500 points you won't be able to squeeze in too much more. The main reason why a DC squad might be good here is because Gaunts don't do jack against FnP, but FnP is widely available via other means at cheaper prices overall in the rest of the army. And while Lemartes is awesomely killy, the comes with a "DC tax"; in other words his actual cost takes into account the grossly overpriced pricetag of the Jump Pack DC's.

 

2) The Vindicator will not do anything unless you take more armor because if its the only armor on the table, it WILL be disabled in some way on the first turn. And taking a lot of armor means you have less bodies.

 

3) Genestealers can outflank in some missions, and unfortunately if you play a very fast assaulty BA army, theres a possibility you would already be in combat by the time they come in, denying you the chance to shoot them.

 

Taking into account the heavy presence of gaunts and genestealers, I would say the wisest thing here to do is to go get FnP for your whole army and load up on the bodies. Sheer weight-of-fire is greatly weakened by FnP, and even though FnP doesn't work on a rending, keep in mind the chance of it occuring is fairly low; its the VERY MANY "normal hits" that usually lay Space Marines low. I would argue that Bikes might be a good option here for their T5, but even if you don't take bikes just take bodies. FnP Space Marines are a pain to kill with non-power attacks.

 

As for the larger guys, I would actually suggest taking something specifically designed to take them out. For example, 2x 5 man Missile Launcher Devastators. 260 points for eight missiles? Hell yes. Yeah if you take casualties your missiles start dying, but frankly who cares? You'd probably be shooting for a turn or two anyway. That coupled with Fists and Meltas means you have a decent chance at killing or crippling some of them, and when all else fails don't forget the Frag missiles...

 

As for the HQ I'd take one Librarian for psychic defense, and probably a Reclusiarch. Both can be kept simple, although theres always the option to take Mephiston. The only issue with Meph here is that he might get somehow bogged down by gaunts and/or die instantly to Boneswords. Basically if you get unlucky with him you probably lose the game.

 

Just my thoughts, happy to see what everyone else has to say as well!

[TrentL]

I haven't played 'nids, but I have watched a game where Lemartes + DC charged some 'nids... even charging the DC just don't beat the init of the nids, and the DC was chewed up pretty bad.

 

I'm starting to think against nids I'd want some flamers out there to lower the number of them down before I charge... but thats just me and I'm not 100% versed on them, I can't wait to see some other opinions.

 

As for taking out his heavy hiters with Melta, thats just like any vechile two choices, Honor guard + melta + dante, or Sanguinary Guard + Dante + Priest. (I tend to favor the Honor Guard who can take some Storm Shields to help project from the high damage attacks) You could use combi melta's, on ones with Power Swords, and melta's on one with Power fists or storm shields.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Time to be the devil's advocate! Not necessarily blatantly disagreeing with your points, but some food for thought

 

1) DC are expensive with jump packs and Lemartes; almost prohibitively so. If you take them then they would be more or less your only true hammer unit, because at 1500 points you won't be able to squeeze in too much more. The main reason why a DC squad might be good here is because Gaunts don't do jack against FnP, but FnP is widely available via other means at cheaper prices overall in the rest of the army. And while Lemartes is awesomely killy, the comes with a "DC tax"; in other words his actual cost takes into account the grossly overpriced pricetag of the Jump Pack DC's.

 

2) The Vindicator will not do anything unless you take more armor because if its the only armor on the table, it WILL be disabled in some way on the first turn. And taking a lot of armor means you have less bodies.

 

3) Genestealers can outflank in some missions, and unfortunately if you play a very fast assaulty BA army, theres a possibility you would already be in combat by the time they come in, denying you the chance to shoot them.

 

Taking into account the heavy presence of gaunts and genestealers, I would say the wisest thing here to do is to go get FnP for your whole army and load up on the bodies. Sheer weight-of-fire is greatly weakened by FnP, and even though FnP doesn't work on a rending, keep in mind the chance of it occuring is fairly low; its the VERY MANY "normal hits" that usually lay Space Marines low. I would argue that Bikes might be a good option here for their T5, but even if you don't take bikes just take bodies. FnP Space Marines are a pain to kill with non-power attacks.

 

As for the larger guys, I would actually suggest taking something specifically designed to take them out. For example, 2x 5 man Missile Launcher Devastators. 260 points for eight missiles? Hell yes. Yeah if you take casualties your missiles start dying, but frankly who cares? You'd probably be shooting for a turn or two anyway. That coupled with Fists and Meltas means you have a decent chance at killing or crippling some of them, and when all else fails don't forget the Frag missiles...

 

As for the HQ I'd take one Librarian for psychic defense, and probably a Reclusiarch. Both can be kept simple, although theres always the option to take Mephiston. The only issue with Meph here is that he might get somehow bogged down by gaunts and/or die instantly to Boneswords. Basically if you get unlucky with him you probably lose the game.

 

Just my thoughts, happy to see what everyone else has to say as well!

 

 

Yes, you´re probably right about the DC...I didn´t really realize that the pointlevel is 1500. But still, in all the games I played against Tyranids, the DC were the most effective, against all kinds of enemies.

 

And I agree partially on the Vindi-issue. The `Nids best anti-tank stuff are Zoans and those Hive Guard thingies with their S8 no LOS weapons...at least the list I´ve played against favoured those units. The Vindicator has front 13, so the Hive Guard will need 5´s to glance and so forth, and the Zoanthropes can be banned by the Librarian´s hood.

And if the opponent uses Warriors, the Vindi is the best way to take them out.

 

 

I tried to put a list together for the OP, not sure if it matches the "powergaming" standard of the battle he is about to fight, but I think that it is a start at least.

 

HQ:

Librarian, JP, Unleash Rage, Sword of Sanguine

 

Elites:

Furioso Dread, Talons, extra armour, Meltagun, drop pod

Sternguard, Pod, 5x combi-melta

Sanguinary Priest, JP

 

Troops:

Tactical Squad, Rhino, +5 men, Flamer, Lascannon, PF

Assault Squad, +5 men, 2x meltaguns, PF

Assault Squad, +5 men, 2x Flamers, PF

 

Fast Attack:

Land Speeder Squadron, 2x MM, 1x HF

 

Heavy Support:

Whirlwind

 

 

I think it has a nice bodycount for this point-level, and the Dread and the Sternguard are included as well. An important unit is the Whirlwind, designed to blast some Gaunts into pieces and to support your assault.

 

On the first turn, you can lay out 5 combi-melta shots and 2 MM, as well as a lascannon shot from the Tactical Squad. I´m not sure if combat squadding is a good idea against Horde armies, but by doing so the squad with Sergeant and Flamer would maintain its mobility while the lascannon combat squad sits back and fires.

 

Also included is a nice amount of flametemplates, to thin out the lines before the assault. Especially against Stealers a heavy flamer works wonders.

 

The Libby goes with one assault squad, and I´d keep those two squads close to each other to benefit from the Sanguinary Priest´s bubble.

 

 

That´s all, folks! :yes:

 

 

Snorri