BA Tactical Squads

[Deschenus Maximus]

I've tried a lot of different configurations and ways to play tac squads, and so far the only one that seems to work remotely effectively is to use a heavy weapon and plasma gun, and take potshots from the Rhino hatch. If anything (anything at all) comes close, they backpedal 18" away, running like little girls. Come the last turn or two, they move into position to capture objectives.

 

While this is not in itself a bad tactic, a 10-man squad with fist, plasma and missile, in a rhino with dozer blade, is 260 pts... that's extremely expensive for what little return you get. And it's such a crappy way to use the most iconic squad type in the SM army.

 

I would really like to use them more agressively, but they are so badly outmatched by everything at close range that I cannot fathom a role not better filled by assault squads when it comes to close range shooting and CC.

 

Has anyone found a way to get more mileage out of Tacs?

[JamesI]

Personally, I've been disappointed with tacs. Don't seem shooty enough to sit and shoot, aren't combatty enough to replace Assault marines. And they generally come out more expensive than assault marines once you give them a transport.

 

 

So, I've stopped using them. Which sucks as its not fluffy.

 

 

If we could still get special weapons at five marines, I'd use small squads as support.

[Talon Darkshade]

10 man unit with Multi Melta and Plasma Gun. Naked Sergant no Transport sitting in terrain near a Home Objective (ie. 6' from whatever piece of terrain they are bunkered in, so they can claim but anyone trying to steal objective is out in the open for them to shoot at). They sit in thier building shooting any transport that comes within 24" of home objective.

 

About the only time a tactical squad seemed viable in my games. Otherwise assault squads are better imo.

 

Sadly that single line in the DEX about how companies only carry the standard 2 Assault squads made competitive lists "unfluffy" unless you take the time to mark up any squad past the second as part of the 8th Company. Just another case of where GW has fluff go one way and rules go the other.

[Morollan]

Sadly, when it comes to Blood Angels, there really is very little point in taking Tactical Squads. If they had the option to take two special weapons rather than a heavy and a special that might help a little.

[calgaryBA]

I use tactical squads for sitting on objectives, and gear them with a plasma gun, plasma cannon and a power weapon. I don't give them transports any more, there's no point because i want them shooting most of the time.

 

It's not the shootiest of squads for anti-tank, but the double plasma works great for all infantry and light armor, weakening anything within range. Throw in a cheap 4x ML devastator squad for only 130 points near by and you have yourself one hell of a fire-base for only 330 points for both squads.

[Morticon]

Follow my batreps and blogs matey - the Tacs are the backbone of my lists.

 

I dont agree at all with people that say Tacs have no place in a BA list. In certain BA lists- definitely.

 

In all BA lists- definite nonsense. Theyre great if you know how to use them effectively.

People forget the Tactical aspect of the Tactical squad. Not taking advantage of this aspect of this choice is what makes people reluctant to field them.

 

 

Here are my do's and don'ts off the top of my head:

 

 

DO:

 

1. Make it a full 10 man squad - to take advantage of the weapons and the combat squads if need be.

2. Equip them with a heavy weapon - preferably a lascannon- the cheapest place to get one. Remember this- a lascannon will ALWAYS have a target.

3. Equip them with a special weapon, even if its just the free flamer. My recommendation is for the flamer or melta, but if you do go plasma, then see point 5.

4. Give the sarge a power fist. Tacs should be able to take a charge or give one. The fist is your way out of any sticky situation.

5. Give them a transport. Ideally a rhino so they can shoot out of the hatch, a razor if if you intend combat squadding, or a pod if youre goin that route.

6. Give the sarge a combi plasma if you're going with a plasma special - even though he has the fist, your FNP should help you out should worst case come. That way you also maximise on the fact that you're not charging if you need to lay down the AP2 hurt.

 

DONT:

 

1. Take 5man squads - RAS are MUCH cheaper here.

2. Take multimeltas, heavy bolters or missile launchers if you can help it. They each have unique weaknesses when it comes to TACTICAL flexibility. eg: MMs lack range and therefore cant combat squad and sit on an objective, HBs lack any real impact with just one and while MLs are not bad as an all rounder, they lack the all important AP2 and that much needed +1 S the LC offers. Plasma is also cheap and very useful!

3. Take a PW. Or if you do, make sure you take a meltabomb too. But, rather just take a fist! PWs on 10man shooty squads put you into a difficult situation. Not good!

4. Take a landraider. If your main objective is assault, there are better units to do this.

 

 

Those are my dos and donts for tactical squads.

Thats just in the build aspect, before actual tactical play comes into it.

 

As mentioned, I feel that by following this general guideline you give yourself a reactive, solid element that can offer a counter to whatever the enemy does. For that reason the BA Tac squad will continue to be the main workhorse of my army.

 

(For the record my 1650 list runs 1x 10man TAC with LasCan, Flamer and Fist in a Rhino - 255 points).

[Demoulius]

10 man unit with Multi Melta and Plasma Gun. Naked Sergant no Transport sitting in terrain near a Home Objective (ie. 6' from whatever piece of terrain they are bunkered in, so they can claim but anyone trying to steal objective is out in the open for them to shoot at). They sit in thier building shooting any transport that comes within 24" of home objective.

agree on most of this, except the naked vet, i ALWAYS give mine a PF. if they eventually get charged (or you need to support your assault marines in a sticky siuation) youll thank the emperor you took it :)

 

a fully dug in tactical squad with added priest is insanely hard to take out with shooting (unless they bring stuff like vindicators...and even then your cover save can throw their plans out the window) and make the squad resiliant beyond reasoning. the number of times my tacticals stuck around because of the priest makes my opponents grit their teeth (which i particulary enjoy ^_^ ) and make the "just an tactical suqad" a very scary prospect for opponents. if you hide the priest well enough you should be able to keep powerfists from charging him ensuring (somewhat) that he wont die as fast and keeping the FC in the unit.

 

i have to say however that immho the MM is the ideal weapon for the tacticals. why you ask? pure and simple because of the range. bolter, MM and PG share the same 24 inch range. so that means that if your firing at infantry all your weapons can fire, instead of just a single heavy weapon. S7 and S8 also ensure that they are good at popping tanks.

 

if you put this squad on an objective of yours chances are your opponent will be coming towards you anyway :P so with any luck youll also get to use the melta range (though tbh when that happens **** ussually starts hitting the fan very fast and your squad is 1 turn away from beeing assaulted....)

 

point is, tactical marines are still S4 and T4. the only reall downside for combat is their low amount of attacks. aside from that they are simular compared to assault marines and when charging with FC can be a very VERY scary unit for your opponent. I5 and S5 is nothing to be sniffed at :wub:

[lunchb0x]

I run my tacs in one of two ways...anit-troop, anti-armour.

 

If run as anti-troop they will have flamer, and heavy bolter/missile launcher, power weapon, and melta bombs in rhino.

 

They provide cover for deep striking units with the rhino, aid in whittling down what ever mob the assault squad is going to hit...again also providing cover. If need be also getting into the mix.

 

Anti-armour, to me is 2+ armour saves as well as actual armour/ monstrous creatures ...so i will run plasmas/meltas, plasma cannon, multi-melta,lascannon, power fist, and rhino.

 

For the most part this unit sits back shoots, and overall try to plug gaps in the line and provide support for tough creatures, tanks, terminators.

 

I run at least 2 tac squads, and as well as 1 assault and 1 death company in my 2.5k list...has yet to fail me.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I've stopped using tactical squads. They were the backbone of my PDF army though. My how the times have changed. Our assault squads are so much better now and the point reduction for an assault squad taking a transport I think are the main two reasons why we don't see tactical squads as much anymore. If you were going for a shooty army then I could definitely see where they would fill a solid role.

 

0b :)

[Aramis_the_Red]

I love tacs. As with mort, they are the backbone of my army.

 

The thing with tacs is that you have to be ballsy with them on offense. They are mainly effective for two things; Objective camping(w/ priest) and Hoard mauling. I run them in rhino's supporting assault squads. I love moving the rhino up with the assault squads nearby, hopping out and blasting away w/ rapid fire and charging with RAS. It tears things up. You can pick apart most non-super sticky elite units this way.

[Joasht]

Tacticals are decent Drop Pod fodder in my opinion, assuming you can't afford, say, Sternguard. After all, if you take a combi weapon with your serg you have a fairly powerful shooting presence on the turn you drop (mainly against swarms but with a melta + combi-melta theres also a small chance you could pop some armor), and the heavy weapon isn't a lost cause since although it can't fire the turn you drop, there is always a small chance you can shoot it on the following turn.

[tahrikmili]

I agree with most things Mort posted above.. EXCEPT 2 things:

 

1. Multi-Meltas.. These are simply the best weapon to take for Tactical Squads. They are free, S8 AP1 Melta 24", they have the same range as Bolters, and when paired with Plasmaguns the volley of fire is moer and more devastating as the enemy approaches. They create a very, very dangerous 24" threat zone. Moving two of these boys up the table in Rhinos to contest the table center will make life VERY difficult for your opponent, especially if you can back them up with a Priest or an Honor Guard in a Razorback.

 

2. Combi-Plasmas on Fist Sarges. They'll fry themselves, eventually, when double tapping something that you know will charge you next turn and you'll hate yourself. Just don't do it. Even if you have a Priest nearby.

[mlund]

I like having Tactical and/or Scout Squads as tactical fire-support in my Blood Angels armies. For 170 points you can get a 10-man Scoring Unit with a free Multi-Melta and a free Flamer. They aren't my first choice for marching across empty territory, but they are the staunch battle line of my deployment zone. I've got a pair of Assault Squads to handle the enemy's side of the table (along with Sanguinary Priests, and a Librarian). A pair of Tactical Squads to anchor my side and create a hectic kill-zone is just what the doctor ordered. Do you really want to zoom your expensive units in transports into my cheap tar-pits with multi-meltas and then get counter-charged by Assault Squads? Probably not. Likewise, Horde armies don't like running headlong into Flamer Templates either.

 

This kind of set-up can be especially effective in Spearhead deployments if you set up first and have decent cover on the board (25%+).

 

My preferred order of battle is something like this:

 

Line Infantry: Tactical Squads

Cavalry: Assault Squads

Harriers: Scout Squads

Flanks: Vindicators

 

Then I like to throw in distractions / random threats like a small pack of Vanguard Veterans and a Furioso Dreadnought.

 

- Marty Lund

[Morticon]

I agree with most things Mort posted above.. EXCEPT 2 things:

 

1. Multi-Meltas.. These are simply the best weapon to take for Tactical Squads. They are free, S8 AP1 Melta 24", they have the same range as Bolters, and when paired with Plasmaguns the volley of fire is moer and more devastating as the enemy approaches. They create a very, very dangerous 24" threat zone. Moving two of these boys up the table in Rhinos to contest the table center will make life VERY difficult for your opponent, especially if you can back them up with a Priest or an Honor Guard in a Razorback.

 

2. Combi-Plasmas on Fist Sarges. They'll fry themselves, eventually, when double tapping something that you know will charge you next turn and you'll hate yourself. Just don't do it. Even if you have a Priest nearby.

 

While I wont discredit the use of the Multi-melta in specific circumstances its the lascannon gives you the optional extra of moving forward or staying back and firing. However, if you are playing an aggressive army, then the tactic above is great- boost forward with your rhinos and use the melta from that point. Ive just played way too many mech eldar to be happy with multimeltas anymore.

 

And as for the combi sarge - with a priest nearby you have a 5.5% chance of dying. An 11% chance if there is no priest.

Those are odds id take any day. With Corbs in the 'hood i'd be even happier taking it!

[Arturas]

Being a fluff stickler at heart I've always sought a way to make tacs effective and I have 2 ways i run tacs;

In a pod I give the sarge a power fist and a combi-melta the squad gets a melta and a free multi melta in case they live through the following turn (nothing unusual there).

The more unusual way I've had success with them is to combat squad them -half with a lascannon on an objective the other half in a rhino with a melta and the sarge with a combi-melta (and fist) which they can fire from the back hatch (unlike a razorback) ensuring they can kill a vehicle without exposing themselves to fire. in the following turn, before the rhino moves they can disembark and help out in another assault most likely benefiting from a nearby SHP. This also leaves the rhino free to block fire lanes, move enemy troops around via tank shock, or find a vehicle about 18' away to run into. The beauty of the plan is that people tend to ignore rhinos...

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

in a mostly, or all mech army, tacs are almost essential in my opinion. you can get most of your heavy weapons on tanks to be sure, but tanks can be popped with one luckys shot, and meltas are every where these days.

 

i take my tacs exactly as mort says not to, pw, meltagun and missile launcher, either in a razorback, combat squaded, or more likely in a rhino. the idea is to move one up, ideally seize an objective and lay out some fire power while my RAS in razors deploy imediately behind them. the tacs should hopefully soak the enemy fire, aided by priests in the razors nearby, and then take the charge if need be, allowing my small, five man RAS units to go more or less unscathed before charging in. surviving tacs then just take pot shots at enemy ranged units or sit on an objective.

 

and you really should take one ten man unit, even without a transport, although, a razor is great here, and sit them on your home objective, combat squad them, put the one with the heavy weapon up front to take a charge if the enemy gets close, then counter attack with the other combat squad. if you take the razor just use it as mobile fire support for the rest of your army, or to transport mephy if you have him.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

I actually run 1 Tactical Squad with an objective holding / anti troop mindset.

 

I run a Tactical Squad with a Sergeant with PW, a Flamer and a ML in a Razorback with HF or HB. Supported by a fully non-upgraded Sang Priest.

 

Usual tactic is: Put ML + 4 + Sang Priest somewhere back in cover, firing off pot shots. If objectives, try and put them on a home objective.. or even better: near it but not on it (1 turn run range)

Sergeant + Flamer goes in the Razorback. This RB charges together with my Rhino filled with DC. Giving cover to a RAS coming along as well. Drop off Serg + Flamer in melee, within a Sang Priest bubble of the RAS. Then charge the RB back to your earlier line! Support the 6 man you left behind with the RB and let them mount if things get hairy.

 

Many people ignore the RB when there is also a Rhino full of DC charging their way, but it is still a good fire base and mobile cover.

This is an army I play around 1000 - 1500 points and it works a charm. The Tacticals have a great role to play and can be very diverse, but specialized in anti-troop and holding an objective. Sometimes, the 5 man squad with a PF and Flamer is just what you need as a bait to bring enemies closer to your heavy hitters (DC and RAS) as well! And the same counts for the 5 with ML in the back, your fast moving RAS can easilly support them if an enemy decides to charge up to them.

[Morticon]

i take my tacs exactly as mort says not to...

:tu:

 

As long as it works for ya brother!! all is good :)

[bushman101]

I usually run a tact squad to babysit a objective, with my favorite load out being a lascannon and flamer.

[BrotherMoses]

Mort makes excellent points! I havent' really had to worry about mech eldar much so I have no particular love for the lascannon. I currently use plasma cannons. The sorcery of fleeting terminators must be purged!

 

Make them 10 strong, let them hold an objective, and give them a fist!

 

Thought for the day: Our greatest fear is to die our duty undone. Our greatest joy to die our duty fulfilled.

[Deschenus Maximus]

Well, thanks to this thread, my confidence in tacs is renewed. I think that my mistake has been to count on Tactical squads to be the workhorse of my army, as in 4th ed and before, when they now actually function more effectively as a force multiplier for other squads. It's also interesting that contrary to what I've been doing, unsynergising the weapon systems might pay more dividents than having a specialised loadout.

 

Here's an interesting mental exercise: help me come up with different loadouts for playing different armies. And maybe one good take-all-comers squad.

[Morticon]

Here's an interesting mental exercise: help me come up with different loadouts for playing different armies. And maybe one good take-all-comers squad.

 

I believe this thinking is faulty army building matey!!

 

You need to build your list first, then see how the Tac can add to that or fill in the gaps.

[Zeller]

My vote for heavy weapon goes to the LC for AT or the PC for its ability to increase the number of kills the tac squad gets per shot.

 

I have no cookie cutter format for my squads since they've been acquired over a number of years with varying degrees of financial backing. Each one is different and since I have 4 of them at the moment I feel the differences won't be an issue. I prefer not to combat squad if I can get away with it because when I charge I want 10 marines charging and not 5. Five rarely works in my experience. I run these:

 

Tac 4: ML, Flamer

Tac 6: MG, HB (typically combat squads)

Tac 1: PF, LC, PG (Might switch to flamer)

Tac 2: MM, Melta, (Might switch to plasmagun)

 

Tac 5 and 3 haven't been bought yet but I do plan to get them some day.

 

The general idea in smaller games ~1000 is to slog the tacs up with the heavy armor while using jump pack RAS to lead my forces while staying out of sight until they need to assault. In my army it's the tactical squad that forms the back bone and the RAS that augments the tacs. Tacs and Armor shoot and RAS cleans up. Tac charge and RAS follows to insure victory or vice versa. Adding rhinos only changes the speed with which my forces advance. Playing Orks and SW means you've got to win the assault. :tu:

[Deschenus Maximus]

I believe this thinking is faulty army building matey!!

 

You need to build your list first, then see how the Tac can add to that or fill in the gaps.

 

I play with "closed" squads, but I do have 6 tacticals to interchange.