Black Rage and Red Thirst

[Nerdfest10]

G'day all,

 

Just a question regarding the Blood Angels. I've followed the sons of Sang' for quite a while now, both playing and reading and I'm unsure as to the relationship between the black rage and red thirst. As I understand it, from background fluff and the codices, any marine can succumb to the red thirst, giving them an insatiable thirst for blood and death. The black rage however grants them hallucinations of the death of the primarch, the marines thinking they are fighting in the HH, driving them insane and exaggerating their already enhanced physiology. Agreed? My questions (finally) are; are they separate afflictions, does one lead to the other or do they occur at the same time? The info I have read seems to suggest that the physical symptoms and signs are, at least initially, the same.

 

Thoughts?

[Brother Biskit]

According to some of the fluff from the older codexes the Black Rage and the Red Thirst are separate. The Red Thirst is always present in each marine and is generally described as "The Flaw". While never really explained there is some wording in the old fluff that this goes right back to the original legion founding. Each marine fights a constant battle with the Thirst and during the height of combat can become lost to it, ripping apart their enemies and drinking their blood.

The Black Rage is separate and only affects some marines. They are overcome with visions of the last days of Sanguinius and can’t tell them from reality. These marines gradually descend into madness and in doing so can no longer fight of the thirst making them little more than animals. A horrible fate for a marine, so they are formed into the Death Company to die with honour.

[Nerdfest10]

thanks for the reply that was my thought too. However, do you think a marine can succumb to the rage without having been afflicted by the thirst, as in does the flaw itself trigger the rage?

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

The Black Rage is triggered completely differently from the Red Thirst. Where the thirst occurs in the heat of combat, the Rage occurs before the eve of battle.

 

All marines who are about to head to battle will go into prayer and meditation before the battle. In the meantime, the Chaplains will go through the ranks of the marines and look for tell-tale signs of the Rage occuring (usually shown in more aggressive prayer, the look on the marine's face, etc..) At that time they will be removed from the others and inducted into the Death Company.

 

So it is an entirely seperate flaw.

[Nerdfest10]

Very good, thanks for the replies, that makes sense and rings a bell too:)

[Joasht]

The Red Thirst is always present in each marine and is generally described as "The Flaw". While never really explained there is some wording in the old fluff that this goes right back to the original legion founding. Each marine fights a constant battle with the

 

This is what I recall too; the Red Thirst was around since the start, but if I'm not wrong Sanguinius had some sort of calming effect on his Legion so their innate madness didn't make itself manifest too much prior to his death. In fact, if I'm not wrong Sanguiniushimself had some anger issues too, and could have been the cause of this flaw.

 

On the other hand the Black Rage just came about after Sanguinius's death. No idea why only the Blood Angels got it when practically all the Loyalist Primarchs are dead (save some of them, who are just too awesome to die, like Leman Russ, Jagathai and IIRC Vulkan). Maybe its because its some weird cocktail of Sanguinius being psychic and dying at the hands of Horus being exceptionally terrible.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Maybe its because its some weird cocktail of Sanguinius being psychic and dying at the hands of Horus being exceptionally terrible.

 

You are absolutely right there. And this is probably combined with the Red Thirst as well.

As you said, on theory is that Sanguinius kept the Red Thirst at bay unless when they needed it in combat in his entire legion by Psychic power alone. Now, this means he had a pretty tight link with his entire chapter.

 

Combine this with being killed by Horus at the height of his power, infused with power from all the Demon Gods.. the psychic backlash of his death could have caused the Black Rage in that very instant.

 

 

Some theories are also that the severity of the Black Rage increasing over the last millenia has to do with the way the geneseed is activated within Blood Angels. There are many different methods but Blood Angels use Ensanguination, the actual drinking of blood. This used to be the Blood of Sanguinius himself, but when he died the Sanguinary Priest were infused with Sang's blood and nowadays the Ensanguination is done using the combined blood from the Sanguinary Priesthood. This practice in itself could cause the Red Thirst and the corruption to the geneseed from no longer having pure blood could cause the Black Rage to occur more often. (this is from the latest codex)

 

But now we are running into the area of lore approved speculation

[Haunter!]

The Black Rage is the psychic imprint of Sanguinius' memories. When a marine 'falls' to the rage, they are imbued with the strength of their Primarch, and tortured by his memories of his beloved brother's betrayal.

 

There have been suggested instances of the Rage afflicting brothers during or after combat also, those these have been Black Library publications, not codices. 'At Gaius Point' in "Legends of the Space Marines" focuses on a brother that appears to have fallen during combat. He is a Flesh Tearer, however. That may have something to do with it.

 

The Red Thirst is an ever present threat of falling into a blood rage. The brothers are plagued by visions of death and feel a burning urge to go at their foe with their bare hands if necessary. I know of no origins to this flaw, only that it effects them all from the day of their Sanguination. It may just be the effects of Sanguinius' blood on a 'mortal' body.

[Brother Nathan]

Was the red thrst not initially discovered when sanguinius was broked by the blood thirster in their first meeting? There was something to do with it, but that was oldfluff so i dont know if its still being supported...

[Leonaides]

Dont forget that not only was sang's death the most painful that 4 chaos gods and a traitor primarch could come up with, but that the ba's are alone in that they're the only legion that had to rebuild their genestock from the dead body of their primarch. Thats why they remember his final battle, and why no other legion is as affected by the death of their primarch.