Playing a double wing

[Tanhausen]

Hi all,

 

I've got a tournament this weekend and I'm changing a bit my list, including Ravenwing in it.

 

Belial with Banner and Apothecary

Sammael in LS with Apothecary

1 x claws terminators

2 x sarge, HF, CF, PF, TH terminators

2 x 6 bikes, double melta AB with MM

2 x Dreads, venerable with lass cannon and missile launcher.

 

2k sharp.

 

So the idea is:

 

- To deal with tanks/transports with the dreads from afar and within cover

- Bikes scout and land turn 1 the "shooty" terminator squads, screening the bikes.

- Take advantage of the TL bolters of the bikes to basically deliver 10+ wounds per turn (bolter alone), supported by pew pew terminators.

- If necessary, use the meltas to open up boxes so infantry can be shot at and assaulted by the terminators

- Sammael... he's a flying LR, TL HB and TL AC... more of a pain than a killer, but still...

 

Ideas, advice or suggestions for my strategy?

[BoonKin]

Is there a heavy weapon on the claws squad? what is their role?

 

I would take out:-

- the standard bearer

- the extra 3 bikers in the RAS squads

- TLLC on the venerable dreads

- 2 HF from the 2 squads

 

and:-

- Upgrade the claws squad with a HF and CF, keeping the rest all claws if you wish.

- Upgrade both termie squads with assault cannons.

- Get 2 Landspeeders with MM + AC

- Give the venerable dreads PC + ML

 

This would give you:-

- extra 10pts

- plenty of shooting killyness (5 ACs, 4 MMs, 2 meltaguns, 1 HF, 2 PC+ML shots)

- Adequate CC power (Suggest you take out TH for the PF + SB to get extra shots)

 

This would run close to my list, tho I don't use Sammael and the RAS: just 2 Landspeeders MM + AC and 1 Landspeeder MM + HF

 

Obviously the plan is to wolfpack portions of your opponent, allowing the DW to deal with counter-attack elements while RW moves to the next target.

 

Doublewing plays best at this point level. Use it well ^_^

[Tanhausen]

Thanks for the advice Boonkin.

 

I've tried AC often and found them under-performing unless they are TL (as in the LRC or Sammy in LS).

 

I do have a feeling that I lack LS mobility... but the main idea is to have a moving gun-line witht he bikes, screened by the terminators as you very well say.

 

The TH I take so I can make multi-wound models go at Ini 1 next turn. YEs, iffy but a small tactical option :drool:

 

I like the shooty dreads... and the MM/HF speeders. I simply don't have enought points :(

[BoonKin]

Well, that's my experience from playing DW on foot.

 

Perhaps the dice is responsible for your AC? Mine is pretty ok, but if you spam ACs, (ok)^4 = great.

 

My reason for taking out the 3 extra bikers is for more firepower, which compensates for the lack of bodies on the RAS. I find that those extra bodies not helpful sometimes as I need a few more precious MM/AC firepower in situations. And besides, you will need to support Sammael with a few similiar shot types (ACs).

 

Trading the TH for extra shot is this: multi-wound models that don't die from a PF (daemon princes and eternal warrior) don't really deserve to be in CC with my termies unless they have been weakened (down to 2 wounds max). Besides, as I said, with all the CC stuff from the DW, you should be able to handle them at that stage.

 

All in all, pick your fights well.

 

PS: You should enough points left from my previous post.

[Ming]

OK, as far as tactics go, Ravenwing can be very potent. I've personally seen one true ravenwing list in action in 5th edition, and it was terrifyingly amazing, winning games in essentially two turns, vs a variety of opponents. I was lucky enough to watch them in action. Ravenwing typically only has real problems with hordes, as you have issues with the ballance between killing vehicles and armored infantry vs tons of choppas or flashlights.

 

That said, Ravenwing armies are best when you go all Ravenwing. Bikes and speeders, with a sprinking of force multipliers. If you have first turn, you can pretty much alpha strike the other guy so that they have nothing to hit you back with, or keep him off the board in reserved due to the fear of it. If you go second, you reserve and come on, or if terrain plentiful just hide behind it. Ravenwing is best left being a surprise.

 

As a note though: One major issue going on in all the big GTs and similar is the total lack of real cover that blocks LOS. This in part makes Ravenwing (or Eldarwing, etc) hard to play, as you are being spotted and splashed with all sorts of S7+, AP3 firepower. Our FLGS started to decreas the amount of terrain that blocks LOS like the "big boys" and that has been a game changer.

 

Similarly, the other most amazing army to run against is Deathwing. I've seen a deathwing, all termie army teleport in and rock the opponent. They also have problems with fearless hordes.

 

I cannot speak enough praises for either. Good luck!

[ShinyRhino]

With the current Deepstriking rules, I think you're going to run into some problems when you land those Terminators as a "screen" for the bikes.

The Terminators are landing in a nice little flower pattern on Turn One. Ripe for a template weapon, unless you use their Shooting phase to Run them out of that formation and into an actual sweeping screen. You've now forfeited one full turn worth of shooting from a very expensive squad.

Your "screen" moves 6" per turn...in front of a unit that can move 12" per turn. Sort of a waste. Honestly, bikers do not need a screen. You can Turbo Boost for a better cover save than the debatable tactic of screening via Terminators can give you.

 

Bikes really aren't a gunline force. You waste all of their mobility. Twin-linked bolters are nice and all, but you won't get 10 wounds per turn from them. 6 bikes can put out at most 12 bolter shots in a Shooting phase. You'll probably average 10 hits with twin-link rerolls. Against Marines...half of those will wound. 5 armor saves means one or two dead models. That's just not gunline material.

 

The Ravenwing elements can be used to precision-drop your Terminaotrs, but don't tie the two together. If you really want a walking gunline that can call in Terminators as the "beef", you might take a look at using standard Tactical Marines with teleport homers instead.

[Tanhausen]

Thanks for all the advice.

 

For now, I'm not comfortable going to a tournament in 2 days with no experience handling bikes... so I'll stick to DW for the moment.

 

If you want to check some simple bat-reps and my pondering on the Deathwing...

 

Fluff is all

 

Take care!

[BoonKin]

With the current Deepstriking rules, I think you're going to run into some problems when you land those Terminators as a "screen" for the bikes.

The Terminators are landing in a nice little flower pattern on Turn One. Ripe for a template weapon, unless you use their Shooting phase to Run them out of that formation and into an actual sweeping screen. You've now forfeited one full turn worth of shooting from a very expensive squad.

Your "screen" moves 6" per turn...in front of a unit that can move 12" per turn. Sort of a waste. Honestly, bikers do not need a screen. You can Turbo Boost for a better cover save than the debatable tactic of screening via Terminators can give you.

 

Bikes really aren't a gunline force. You waste all of their mobility. Twin-linked bolters are nice and all, but you won't get 10 wounds per turn from them. 6 bikes can put out at most 12 bolter shots in a Shooting phase. You'll probably average 10 hits with twin-link rerolls. Against Marines...half of those will wound. 5 armor saves means one or two dead models. That's just not gunline material.

 

The Ravenwing elements can be used to precision-drop your Terminaotrs, but don't tie the two together. If you really want a walking gunline that can call in Terminators as the "beef", you might take a look at using standard Tactical Marines with teleport homers instead.

 

sorry mate but the DA tactical squad can't be upgraded with teleport homers (nor locator beacons).

 

shows how much updating needs to be done :)

[traxter]

I have played in a few tourneys with people from all around skill wise and army wise. You will be in major trouble when you run into the first outflanking IG infantry list. If the guard knows what hes doing you wont have nearly enough models to compete. he will be feilding at least 140 with commisars in each so they rarely fall back. If you know there wont be guard players this list will be tons of fun! I love expensivve units. My 2000pt army has 14 models that make up 870 points of it. Pure devastation if it lands tho.

 

So if you are worried about IG id say try to get some anti infantry somewhere like devs with 4 HB's or something. Good luck all together!