Who does this?

[Bobman]

I recently had a situation in a game involving Long Fang split fire. I run my Rune Priest with them at the moment with Living Lightning. I went to split fire only with the Rune Priest firing the rest of the Fangs at a seperate target. Always done this and no one has ever had a problem. My opponent calls me on this and the TO agrees with the other guy, claiming there is something in the FAQ. The only thing the FAQ says is the unit does not lose the ability when joined by an IC.

 

So am I wrong to use Fire Control this way?

[Plastenarius]

Yes, absolutely. When that IC joins the unit he becomes a part of it. Honestly if you had to justify it say the unit is shooting at X target and then you're going to split fire XYZ long fangs to another target. Its perfectly legal and sexy all at the same time. I typically don't run my RP with the long fangs but its not a terribad idea especially if you want to give him some runic armor to soak up wounds on the group.

[LPetersson]

So am I wrong to use Fire Control this way?

 

I can see both sides of the argument here. However, you can split fire, but the rule says that it's the Long Fangs which can split fire.

If the Long Fangs are all firing at the same target, then they're not splitting fire, and you can't really argue that you're splitting fire, IMO.

 

You can get around it by having one Long Fang fire at the same target as the Rune Priest. Problem sorted...

[Plastenarius]

I see where you're coming from with this and I suppose you could argue both ways. For sake of argument Fire Control is for members in the squad leader's UNIT. So does the IC count as a squad member when he joins a squad?

[Grimtooth]

Read the rules for when an IC joins a unit.

 

When an IC joins a unit, he becomes part of that unit for all intents and purposes except close combat where he fights as a separate unit. The TO was wrong as was your opponent.

[Plastenarius]

Kinda what I was getting at Brother Ramses. The only time it mentions they are not is in CC so I would definitely say its legit. Fo sho

[Anpu42]

Your opponet and TOs Head would have just exploded over my Long Fang/Wolf Guard with Cyclone/Njal Set up.

[Grey Mage]

FAQ for C:SW, pg 2, bottom left corner:

 

Q. Can a Long Fang unit benefit from Fire

Control if it has been joined by a Wolf Guard

Pack Leader or Independent Character?

A. Yes indeed

[Nacho Wolf]

Easiest way of getting around the fang, Listen to and obey grey mage.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Read the rules for when an IC joins a unit.

 

When an IC joins a unit, he becomes part of that unit for all intents and purposes except close combat where he fights as a separate unit. The TO was wrong as was your opponent.

:o

 

FAQ for C:SW, pg 2, bottom left corner:

 

Q. Can a Long Fang unit benefit from Fire

Control if it has been joined by a Wolf Guard

Pack Leader or Independent Character?

A. Yes indeed

 

I am not sure this answers the OPs question. It just means that the Fangs don't lose FC.

The IC benefiting from it is covered in the IC section of the BBB.

Not trying to be annoying, just wanted to clarify it. :)

[Grey Mage]

The Rune Priest fires at the 'original' target, and the entirety of the long fangs split fire to the 'second target' is one Ive heard alot, but yes its pretty well covered by the BRB, and GW further enhanced this with the FAQ.

 

The short version- it works.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

The short version- it works.

 

Yes!

[CainTheHunter]

The short version- it works.

 

Yes!

 

But Templars still can't do it :P Even the champions :)

[Marshal Wilhelm]

But Templars still can't do it Even the champions

 

You and your fancy HW squads! :lol: *shakes fist, whilst eyes turn green behind helmet :P *

 

Well, here are some sayings to cheer me up and into a Righteously Zealous move into the Pain Glove:

 

"We purge with righteous zeal!"

"I must learn... from the pain."

"Lay low, the tainted and corrupt."

"Lift up the hearts of the righteous."

"I am a vessel to the Emperor's wrath!"

"My fury hath no bounds!"

"Foul apostasy, be stricken from this world!"

"I smite the terrors of darkness."

"Tremble, all you flawed and mortal."

"Witchcraft, heresy and mutation!."

"Thou shalt not. I shall!"

"We command dread and awe!"

"Unbelievers...MUST....DIIIIIEEE!!!"

"It is a judgment...!"

"Smite the enemy!"

"All sinners fear the Emperor's wrath!"

"Daemons and heretics will fall before us."

"Drive them back into the warp!"

"Emperor, preserve us!"

"Feel the power of the Emperor!"

"I shall make my penance on the battlefield."

"Let the purgation begin."

"Lo, though the time is dark, my faith shines."

"Our faith makes us strong"

"Praise the Emperor and strike down his foes."

"Purge the beasts!"

"Strike them down with all your might!"

"Suffer not the witch to live."

"The Emperor guides my blade!"

"The Emperor is with me and I shall not fear."

"The Emperor protects us."

"The enemies of man cannot stand before us."

"The Heretics will suffer the ultimate punishment!"

"This is the judgement of the righteous, scum!"

"We go to spread His word."

"We have purified this place."

"We shall carry the light of our faith!"

"We shall purify the land."

"We strike with the wrath of the righteous!"

"We will hold against this scum!"

"Burn, Heretic!"

"I will purge the unclean."

"Faith is eternal."

"I am the Emperor's will made manifest."

"Redeem them with sword and fire!"

"You cannot stand against my Faith!"

"Pain now! Reward in the afterlife!"

"Mighty Emperor, guide my blow!"

"Come all you xeno scum and fallen heretics, come and face the one true might of the universe and wither under the Golden Throne's gaze!"

;)

[CainTheHunter]

What can I reply to this...

Ehh, want some ale?

[eldaran]

But Templars still can't do it Even the champions

 

You and your fancy HW squads! :lol: *shakes fist, whilst eyes turn green behind helmet :P *

 

Well, here are some sayings to cheer me up and into a Righteously Zealous move into the Pain Glove:

 

We still get our pints, though - all you guys get is more fiery sermons... ;)

[CainTheHunter]

But Templars still can't do it Even the champions ;)

 

You and your fancy HW squads! :lol: *shakes fist, whilst eyes turn green behind helmet :P *

 

Well, here are some sayings to cheer me up and into a Righteously Zealous move into the Pain Glove:

 

We still get our pints, though - all you guys get is more fiery sermons... ;)

 

We are getting our pints and their pints as well - on the basis that they don't need them

[Stormbrow II]

When an IC joins a unit, he becomes part of that unit for all intents and purposes except close combat where he fights as a separate unit. The TO was wrong as was your opponent.

Pg 48 BRB.

When an IC joins a unit, it might have different special rules from those of the unit. Unless specified in the rule itself...the unit's special rules are not conferred upon the character...

 

Does IC have split fire? No.

 

Pg 2 of the SW FAQ says that when the Fangs are joined by an IC/WGPL they may continue to use their Split Fire ability, not that they and the character and unit may fire at seperate targets. I've been playing it as LPetersson suggests with the unit needing to have at least 1 Fang fire at the same target as an IC.

 

Pg 49 BRB

All independent characters shoot just like ordinary troopers...However, they must still fire at the same target as the unit they have joined.

The groups I game with have taken this to mean that the unit is the one to split fire, with the IC adding his firepower to one firegroup in the unit, as he doesn't have the rule to allow him to shoot a seperate target himself.

[Grey Mage]

Nah- just declare the units target is the baal predator, and that these other 5 long fangs are shooting at the landraider.

 

Remember- the pack leader is part of the unit- so his primary target is the baal in this case, and the Rune Priest shoots it as hes supposed to, the other long fangs with heavy weapons shoot at the landraider, wich is the secondairy target in this case.

 

*Puts out roast mammoth and a large ale for when Wilhelm finally leaves his masochistic meditations.*

[Marshal Wilhelm]

We still get our pints, though - all you guys get is more fiery sermons...

 

You make it that fiery sermons are not on par with beer ~ you need to come hear something amazing ;)

 

We still get our pints, though - all you guys get is more fiery sermons...

 

We are getting our pints and their pints as well - on the basis that they don't need them :P

 

We have beer and prayer ~ though rarely at the same time....

 

Nah- just declare the units target is the baal predator, and that these other 5 long fangs are shooting at the landraider.

 

Remember- the pack leader is part of the unit- so his primary target is the baal in this case, and the Rune Priest shoots it as hes supposed to, the other long fangs with heavy weapons shoot at the landraider, wich is the secondairy target in this case.

 

*Puts out roast mammoth and a large ale for when Wilhelm finally leaves his masochistic meditations.*

 

WOAH! That was good one! I'm shakin' all over! :)

*Pulls off mammoth tusk and starts gnawing*.... What? You guys only eat the soft bits?! :o I'll do it your way :P

 

Ah Fenris Ale! A meal in every tankard :D

 

Perhaps you guys need to send out a Hunting Party for littlebitz ~ he seems as lost as Lord Russ himself :P !

 

+++

 

True, pg 17 "Check range"

 

Being ineffective at penetrating vehicles or even out of range gets used for other purposes too.

Say you have 2 Mg firing and the LR is 50% obscured.

Your unit happens to have three guys with bolters and they can see the LR without it being obscured.

All 5 models shoot at the LR and now it gets no cover save from the Mgs :P

[Plastenarius]

Being ineffective at penetrating vehicles or even out of range gets used for other purposes too.

Say you have 2 Mg firing and the LR is 50% obscured.

Your unit happens to have three guys with bolters and they can see the LR without it being obscured.

All 5 models shoot at the LR and now it gets no cover save from the Mgs :lol:

 

 

Page 62. Vehicles and Cover...

 

do not count the models that cannot hurt the vehicle

[Grey Mage]

It doesnt say not to count them- it says to assume they provide covering fire etc, instead of letting them actually shoot at something else.

[Plastenarius]

It doesnt say not to count them- it says to assume they provide covering fire etc, instead of letting them actually shoot at something else.

 

No it specifically does. In the instance that was talked about before. 50% of the models in the firing unit for determining a vehicle cover save "do not count models that cannot hurt the vehicle"

[Grey Mage]

It doesnt say not to count them- it says to assume they provide covering fire etc, instead of letting them actually shoot at something else.

 

No it specifically does. In the instance that was talked about before. 50% of the models in the firing unit for determining a vehicle cover save "do not count models that cannot hurt the vehicle"

Where? Im not seeing this in the rules on pg. 62, can you give me a paragraph and sentence number? Perhaps Im just being blind in one eye.

 

Edit: Nevermind, I am blind in one eye- I was on pg. 60, not pg. 62.

 

You are correct.

[Plastenarius]

pg. 62 first bullet, in the second sentence that has "50%" in it.