Rules wish list

[Zeller]

One cannot compare a Chaos marine character living in the warp to a marine in normal space. There is the whole time flowing difference thing. That said, I do think that marines during the crusade were made of sterner stuff.

[Kunanaki]

One cannot compare a Chaos marine character living in the warp to a marine in normal space. There is the whole time flowing difference thing. That said, I do think that marines during the crusade were made of sterner stuff.

 

Yes, direct primarch geneseed, which is exactly the stock that BA uses as well.

[Son Of Moriar]

1. Bring back my Dad (i miss him)

 

2. Dante gets Eternal Warrior

 

3. Lemartes has option of removing Jump Pack

 

4. Heavy Flamer option for tactical squads

 

5. Mephiston gets 5+ invulnerable OR Honour Guard

 

6. Larger Honour Guard squads

 

7. Chaplains gets back control of Death Company

 

8. Ability to assault out of Drop Pods

 

9. Techmarines have options for taking a bike

 

10. If Astorath's with death Co. any of his CC hits of 1 wounds Death Co instead of opponent

[Kurb]

4 Land raiders squishing stuff when they deepstrike (my experience of being deystroyed by a grot...nightmares!)

 

 

This.

 

Such a thing could so easily be fixed.

Just use the Monolith rules.

 

Don't they have some business about when they land on a unit the unit moves away ?

 

Hell just take it as a tank shock where the Raider can't fire and the models move out of the way.

[Rybnick]

10. If Astorath's with death Co. any of his CC hits of 1 wounds Death Co instead of opponent

This is a really neat idea, I like it a lot!

[the jeske]

One cannot compare a Chaos marine character living in the warp to a marine in normal space. There is the whole time flowing difference thing. That said, I do think that marines during the crusade were made of sterner stuff.

 

Yes, direct primarch geneseed, which is exactly the stock that BA uses as well.

 

the method was different . they made sm faster without flaws and could turn older people in to sm . some chapters still can pull it off like SW or salamanders .

[Brother Chris]

It's taken me a long time to get my head round all the options in the new codex and how to alter my old army builds and tactics.

 

The strangest omission (taking the Captain's Artificer armour as read) is the Landspeeder storm. The marines have an aircraft to get them in, even the Dreadnoughts do, but not the scouts. This seems very odd for an airborne army as the new Blood Angels are written.

 

Next is the lack of costs to create a successor Chapter Master. Dante and Seth are so different from each other and so strongly characterised to their chapters that it is very hard to construct Chaptermaster for the other or home-made chapters using them as templates.

 

I think there is a problem with the way assault marines are explained. I have a jump-packed squad and a non-jumpacked squad (for use in a vehicle). As written this is all the assault marines in my company, and I can't even add one attack bike without asking for reinforcements from another company, let alone the whole bike squad I want. This sounds ridiculous. I am certain that the pistol and chainsword wielding infantry are tactical marines who have simply left their bolter in the armoury and checked out their chainswords instead. They all have chainswords, they all have pistols, they all know how to fight with them. this seems far more likely than the role being filled by expensive assault marines who have stored their jump-packs. So, as some-one said above, I would make bolter, bolt pistol and chainsword the equipment of a tactical marine, and make Assault and Vanguard specifically jump-packed units.

 

I think the huge number of(deep-striking) Landraiders is absurd. Childish overkill. Finding out the majority of the chapter's dreadnoughts are not furiosos is sad too.

 

Jump-packed devastators. The heavy weapons could be equipped with their own grav chutes so the team could deep strike in out of a Storm Raven. That was the sort of thing I was expecting.

 

Instead of this kind of creative thinking, we got a silly uber-chaplain when we already had Lemartes and and a shiny golden angel when we already had Dante seem like transparent attempts to shift new figures, when their rules could simply have been given to the existing known characters. 'Not enough powerful special characters' was never a complaint about the old Blood Angels. Need to beef up the standard HQ choices to make them viable always was.

[LordofDeath11]

Has anyone mentioned Storm Raven getting higher armour value, because....

 

*Storm Raven getting higher armour value.

[the jeske]

So, as some-one said above, I would make bolter, bolt pistol and chainsword the equipment of a tactical marine, and make Assault and Vanguard specifically jump-packed units.

which would only mean they are a better buffed up version of chaos sm or even GH [both options for 2 specials or a hvy/special mix + they dont have to buy a WG to have a fist with more then 1 A].

[LordofDeath11]

1. Bring back my Dad (i miss him)

 

Yes, getting rid of Moriar was a bad idea IMO. He rocked!

[Gunslinger87]

Hehehe, to me it seems that these really are just wish lists. I mean come on, many people consider the BA list to be overpowered already and youd want to assault out of drop pods when no unit in the game can assault on the turn they deep strike? (well except heroic intervention) Id also like Marneus Calgar to have a toughness of 6 if hes supposed to be so enhanced by his bionics (while an IG SERGEANT can have toughness 5 and feel no pain for what, a bionic arm?)

 

When I read this post I expected more reasoning behind the choices, not just what would be nice. A land raider with AV 15 would be nice too...

 

Some points are good of course, like the LSS, but blood angels are already more mobile than space marines, cant have everything.

 

And if Lucius the Eternal (eternal in his name and according to fluff, if killed becomes his killer) is not eternal and only about 5 or six units in the game I know of have that rule, cant expect everyone to have it. Dante is killer already...

 

 

PS Dont kill me for saying all this, I dont mean it in a bad way. Im just saying that I expected some fluff reasons why something should be different. Maybe even taking off a rule for something else... not a wishful thinking upgrade.

[Brother Nathan]

yea but lucius rocks, his fluff is just crap and i dont like his model... And blood angels definately are not overpowered, not compared to wolves... Id say that the chaplins should have a limited amount of control over the dc so that if they in range of a unit they must charge, but dosent have to be the closest unit, just the one they shot. other than that.... scouts having a character that gives them some buffer in cc like telion for shooty scouts...

[Brother Landrain]

...if they in range of a unit they must charge, but dosent have to be the closest unit, just the one they shot. ...

 

This IS the way it works now.

 

You do not have to shoot the closest unit...

 

You cannot charge any unit except one that you shot at...

[Brother Nathan]

but they dont have to charge...

[Crynn]

Hehehe, to me it seems that these really are just wish lists. I mean come on, many people consider the BA list to be overpowered already and youd want to assault out of drop pods when no unit in the game can assault on the turn they deep strike? (well except heroic intervention) Id also like Marneus Calgar to have a toughness of 6 if hes supposed to be so enhanced by his bionics (while an IG SERGEANT can have toughness 5 and feel no pain for what, a bionic arm?)

 

When I read this post I expected more reasoning behind the choices, not just what would be nice. A land raider with AV 15 would be nice too...

 

Some points are good of course, like the LSS, but blood angels are already more mobile than space marines, cant have everything.

 

And if Lucius the Eternal (eternal in his name and according to fluff, if killed becomes his killer) is not eternal and only about 5 or six units in the game I know of have that rule, cant expect everyone to have it. Dante is killer already...

 

 

PS Dont kill me for saying all this, I dont mean it in a bad way. Im just saying that I expected some fluff reasons why something should be different. Maybe even taking off a rule for something else... not a wishful thinking upgrade.

 

I believe I provided fluff reasons for all my wish listing, and negatives on some things as well.

 

I'll compile the next section of our codex ELITES soon with my 'wish listing', although I will be wishing for no such thing as AV 15 landraiders or eternal warrior everything dante T6 Meph with invulns or any of that absurd crap. I think our elites section is much better written than our HQ section.

 

Oh and to the storm raven having higher armor? Definately not, I see where your coming from though but I would say that the thunderhawk is stll only av 12 so the storm raven should be too. The storm raven is cool it just need s a points drop but I'll cover that when I get to Heavy support.

[Kunanaki]

One cannot compare a Chaos marine character living in the warp to a marine in normal space. There is the whole time flowing difference thing. That said, I do think that marines during the crusade were made of sterner stuff.

 

Yes, direct primarch geneseed, which is exactly the stock that BA uses as well.

 

the method was different . they made sm faster without flaws and could turn older people in to sm . some chapters still can pull it off like SW or salamanders .

 

According to the Fallen Angels Books, they could not turn Older People into SM. What they could do however, was gene therapy and juvenaut treatments, making them incredibly hardy and strong individuals. In fact, one of the Captains of the Dark Angels actually had a bit of an inferiority complex because the fact he was too old when the imperium started such changes to create recruiting worlds for the Primarch Lion El Johnson (A funny reference to a historical person in the name).

 

As for Faster, I've never heard of it. The therapy and the like is a stern, strict tradition according to previous fluff, and any sort of rushing the body before it was ready to accept the next implementation was often met with failure. That is why Space Marines have a very hard time replenishing numbers after a brutal campaign, and the 2 geneseed's per Space Marine is a priceless treasure that the Apothecaries guard with their very lives.

 

 

Another thing I'd like to see, is an original use for all of the awesome fluff effects being a space marine has. Take an armour save for my Acid Spit in yer eye. -chuckles-

[Khavos]

When I read this post I expected more reasoning behind the choices, not just what would be nice. A land raider with AV 15 would be nice too...

 

Well, the only thing I really asked for was better vanilla Captain loadout, and I think fluff fully supports that; aren't the BAs the guys who practically invented artificer armor? Their Sanguinary Guard can take Glaives Encarmine, but the Captains who command those troops can't pick one up for himself?

 

PS Dont kill me for saying all this, I dont mean it in a bad way. Im just saying that I expected some fluff reasons why something should be different. Maybe even taking off a rule for something else... not a wishful thinking upgrade.

 

I of course can't say for sure that Lucius is going to end up snagging EW whenever Chaos gets a new codex, but I'd lay money on at least a couple guys getting it, if it doesn't simply wind up as a SW-style upgrade. Codex creep is codex creep, and my guess is that the cat got let out of the bag with the SW 'dex. I could be completely wrong, but it's my gut feeling.

[Brother Nathan]

As for Faster, I've never heard of it. The therapy and the like is a stern, strict tradition according to previous fluff, and any sort of rushing the body before it was ready to accept the next implementation was often met with failure. That is why Space Marines have a very hard time replenishing numbers after a brutal campaign, and the 2 geneseed's per Space Marine is a priceless treasure that the Apothecaries guard with their very lives.

 

Actually... For regular non ba chapters it takes 10 years cause of training alongside implantations. for ba it takes a year cause they knock them out for the full year and are pu in the coffin thing for the year whilst the operations and blood purifying are done. so you have a fully transformed dude after the year but he still takes 10 years on average to earn his battle armour and become a fully fledged battle brother... unless our fluff has been screwed over again... if it has i would like it back as i like it tat way...

 

Also someof the chaos characters do have ew, abbadon does, and i think typhus might. Khârn has a version as hes immune to force weapons. The thousand sons guy has a hood so can ignor to a degree. Plus they can buy toughness or increased inv. though they will probably be able to buy sagay stuff... but tats along way offf...

[LordofDeath11]

And Invul save for Mr.Meph.

[SnorriSnorrison]

It's taken me a long time to get my head round all the options in the new codex and how to alter my old army builds and tactics.

The strangest omission (taking the Captain's Artificer armour as read) is the Landspeeder storm. The marines have an aircraft to get them in, even the Dreadnoughts do, but not the scouts. This seems very odd for an airborne army as the new Blood Angels are written.

 

Next is the lack of costs to create a successor Chapter Master. Dante and Seth are so different from each other and so strongly characterised to their chapters that it is very hard to construct Chaptermaster for the other or home-made chapters using them as templates.

 

I think there is a problem with the way assault marines are explained. I have a jump-packed squad and a non-jumpacked squad (for use in a vehicle). As written this is all the assault marines in my company, and I can't even add one attack bike without asking for reinforcements from another company, let alone the whole bike squad I want. This sounds ridiculous. I am certain that the pistol and chainsword wielding infantry are tactical marines who have simply left their bolter in the armoury and checked out their chainswords instead. They all have chainswords, they all have pistols, they all know how to fight with them. this seems far more likely than the role being filled by expensive assault marines who have stored their jump-packs. So, as some-one said above, I would make bolter, bolt pistol and chainsword the equipment of a tactical marine, and make Assault and Vanguard specifically jump-packed units.

 

I think the huge number of(deep-striking) Landraiders is absurd. Childish overkill. Finding out the majority of the chapter's dreadnoughts are not furiosos is sad too.

 

Jump-packed devastators. The heavy weapons could be equipped with their own grav chutes so the team could deep strike in out of a Storm Raven. That was the sort of thing I was expecting.

 

Instead of this kind of creative thinking, we got a silly uber-chaplain when we already had Lemartes and and a shiny golden angel when we already had Dante seem like transparent attempts to shift new figures, when their rules could simply have been given to the existing known characters. 'Not enough powerful special characters' was never a complaint about the old Blood Angels. Need to beef up the standard HQ choices to make them viable always was.

 

I agree with this, but particularly with the bit I marked in italics. This is what I thought when reading about the new characters(we´ll ignore the models for this time) and our left-aside Captains, and of course the lack of the LSS.

 

 

Oh, and I don´t think Meph needs an invulnerable save. If playing smartly, you should be able to let him jump from cover to cover until the final engage, so 4+ should be fine as a substitute for the invulnerable. Only thing that bugs me is his exaggerated profile.

What he needs is fearless, just as Dante.

 

 

Snorri

[Valerian]

I think Crynn has nailed it; completely nailed it. Some of the army list is just odd. Crynn has noted where some abilities need to go up, and where others should go down. Not everything should be a buff, but it needs to result in a coherent list that fits the excellent and now decades old background material.

 

Here is what I had, but pretty much everything (and more) has already been well-covered by Crynn's post above:

 

1. Dante - Eternal Warrior, and Inspirational power, and take away his Curse power.

 

2. The Sanguinor - Removed from codex; left on editing room floor.

 

3. Mephiston - toned down a bit, but made an IC again.

 

4. Death Company - ability to be controlled by a Chaplain. Cheaper Jump Packs.

 

5. Furioso Librarians - retain upgrade options.

 

6. Sanguinary Novitiate - gain upgrade options as other Honor Guard members.

 

7. Captains - same options everyone else has recommended. Rites of Battle added back in to make them a viable choice vice the other options.

 

8. Sanguinary Priests - the aren't Independent Characters anymore, but get assigned to a unit prior to start of the game. Then give their FnP and Furious Charge buff only to the squad they've attached to, instead of a radius.

 

The new Blood Angels codex is a "good" codex, but it isn't a "great" codex. Unfortunately, Mr. Ward and his team really missed the boat on a lot of what could have made the units and army list really fun, while keeping with the excellent background material. I've got a full 3,000 point army based on the Blood Angels, but since the release of the 5th Edition codex I haven't played a single game with them. I just can't find the motivation to want to play with them, as the new list doesn't inspire me. Instead, every game I played this summer was with my Space Wolves. The SW Codex isn't perfect either, and we've got at least one thread over at the Fang just like this one, where we all provided the "in a perfect world the Space Wolves codex would have looked like this..." comments. However, Mr. Kelly and his team did a much better job of capturing the theme of the Wolves, and expressing that in the rules, the units, and the list.

 

I maintain a naive hope that one day GW will go to online lists (that we get access to via a subscription or something), that are refined, improved, and maintained at regular intervals. The lists would always have a version number, and tournament organizers would publish the version numbers for lists that would be allowed at a given tournament. At least with this process if something stupid happens in a list, it can be fixed quickly (like a software patch for an Operating System), instead of having to just live with it for 5 to 10 years for the next update (which will inevitably screw up something else anyway).

 

If GW would do this as a best case scenario, it would be a vast improvement. At the least, however, they should do a better job of playtesting the lists, and in providing them to "beta-checkers" who can provide feedback to them in a similar manner to what has already been done in this thread before they go final. They still might not get to "perfect", but at least they'd be able to achieve "much improved".

 

Valerian

[Mezkh]

I think Crynn has nailed it; completely nailed it. Some of the army list is just odd. Crynn has noted where some abilities need to go up, and where others should go down. Not everything should be a buff, but it needs to result in a coherent list that fits the excellent and now decades old background material.

 

Here is what I had, but pretty much everything (and more) has already been well-covered by Crynn's post above:

 

1. Dante - Eternal Warrior, and Inspirational power, and take away his Curse power.

 

2. The Sanguinor - Removed from codex; left on editing room floor.

 

3. Mephiston - toned down a bit, but made an IC again.

 

4. Death Company - ability to be controlled by a Chaplain. Cheaper Jump Packs.

 

5. Furioso Librarians - retain upgrade options.

 

6. Sanguinary Novitiate - gain upgrade options as other Honor Guard members.

 

7. Captains - same options everyone else has recommended. Rites of Battle added back in to make them a viable choice vice the other options.

 

8. Sanguinary Priests - the aren't Independent Characters anymore, but get assigned to a unit prior to start of the game. Then give their FnP and Furious Charge buff only to the squad they've attached to, instead of a radius.

 

Eh, I pretty much disagree with 1 through 8. Captains could have more options yes, but no Rites of Battle: stupid ability.

 

Dante, The Sang, and Meph are all fine as they are, and this iteration of DC is the best yet.

[Zealadin]

I think Crynn has nailed it; completely nailed it. Some of the army list is just odd. Crynn has noted where some abilities need to go up, and where others should go down. Not everything should be a buff, but it needs to result in a coherent list that fits the excellent and now decades old background material.

 

Here is what I had, but pretty much everything (and more) has already been well-covered by Crynn's post above:

 

1. Dante - Eternal Warrior, and Inspirational power, and take away his Curse power.

 

2. The Sanguinor - Removed from codex; left on editing room floor.

 

3. Mephiston - toned down a bit, but made an IC again.

 

4. Death Company - ability to be controlled by a Chaplain. Cheaper Jump Packs.

 

5. Furioso Librarians - retain upgrade options.

 

6. Sanguinary Novitiate - gain upgrade options as other Honor Guard members.

 

7. Captains - same options everyone else has recommended. Rites of Battle added back in to make them a viable choice vice the other options.

 

8. Sanguinary Priests - the aren't Independent Characters anymore, but get assigned to a unit prior to start of the game. Then give their FnP and Furious Charge buff only to the squad they've attached to, instead of a radius.

 

Eh, I pretty much disagree with 1 through 8. Captains could have more options yes, but no Rites of Battle: stupid ability.

 

Dante, The Sang, and Meph are all fine as they are, and this iteration of DC is the best yet.

 

I disagree with 1-8 as well..... can't even see where you are coming from with these.... Are you a space wolves player who just wants to see our army nerfed?

 

1. The curse is nice and unique, I've heard plenty of people crying about it and honestly I think they need to get a life. Its a game, and there are plenty of things that are annoying in certain armies. Without this ability Dante would need to be totally rebalanced. I've annoyed people on many forums saying this too, even people I have known for a long time but I find the crying to be really pathetic. Its as bad as people complaining about GK GM's one shotting eternal warriors.

 

2. Remove the Sanguinor? Ummm why? Some people like a bit of character in their army, or a theme. He may not be the most amazing choice, and he is expensive, but everything isn't meant to be amazing.

 

3. Mephiston is fine. He requires skill to use properly and can do some damage. Why would you want to make him an IC, if you can't sheild him from shooting then you probably need to look at how you play instead of 'problems' with the codex.

 

4. Death Company could have cheaper jump packs, but not if they are controllable. I mean they are controllable now to a certain extent you just have to play smart and use vehicles effectively. Again its a player skill thing here.

 

5. Furioso dreads... they have weaknesses but thats to be expected. We could well see in the next few releases a real reason to use them as they are now.

 

6. The Sanguinary Novitiate thing isn't a huge issue, would be nice, but if it was intended it would have been faq'd.

 

7. Captains are the weak HQ, every army has them and its unfortunate since some people liked them, but every choice can't be amazing.

 

8. Uhhh what? Probably worst suggestion I've seen. I mean sure its fine if you play a spam army, but some people actually want to try something that isn't mech, and FNP bubbles are extremely important if your playing a JP heavy list, particularly SG themed.

 

The list seems to be stuck between making the codex easier to play, which personally I don't think should EVER be a concern, and nerfing things (and personalising it to suit a fews prefered method of play). If you really agree with it that much then there is a pretty good option already available. Play normal marines. The codex has plenty of different options, plenty of coherency, and allows a variety of playstyles, which is far more important than anything else as far as I am concerned.

 

Space Wolves have the strongest codex because basically GWS made it, realised it was way over the top (and fixed it for our codex) and didn't want to nerf it via a faq the way the did for Nids (typical imperial GWS bias). Pretty sad really considering what they did to Nids.

 

Personally I think the Storm Raven should be AV 13 all around. Str 6 weapons are too plentiful for it to be worth 200 points as it is currently. It would make it a really viable choice within the codex.

 

This aside all my wishlisting is for OTHER codexes so we can see some variety on the gaming tables.

[Crynn]

I think Crynn has nailed it; completely nailed it. Some of the army list is just odd. Crynn has noted where some abilities need to go up, and where others should go down. Not everything should be a buff, but it needs to result in a coherent list that fits the excellent and now decades old background material.

 

Here is what I had, but pretty much everything (and more) has already been well-covered by Crynn's post above:

 

1. Dante - Eternal Warrior, and Inspirational power, and take away his Curse power.

 

2. The Sanguinor - Removed from codex; left on editing room floor.

 

3. Mephiston - toned down a bit, but made an IC again.

 

4. Death Company - ability to be controlled by a Chaplain. Cheaper Jump Packs.

 

5. Furioso Librarians - retain upgrade options.

 

6. Sanguinary Novitiate - gain upgrade options as other Honor Guard members.

 

7. Captains - same options everyone else has recommended. Rites of Battle added back in to make them a viable choice vice the other options.

 

8. Sanguinary Priests - the aren't Independent Characters anymore, but get assigned to a unit prior to start of the game. Then give their FnP and Furious Charge buff only to the squad they've attached to, instead of a radius.

 

Eh, I pretty much disagree with 1 through 8. Captains could have more options yes, but no Rites of Battle: stupid ability.

 

Dante, The Sang, and Meph are all fine as they are, and this iteration of DC is the best yet.

 

I disagree with 1-8 as well..... can't even see where you are coming from with these.... Are you a space wolves player who just wants to see our army nerfed?

 

1. The curse is nice and unique, I've heard plenty of people crying about it and honestly I think they need to get a life. Its a game, and there are plenty of things that are annoying in certain armies. Without this ability Dante would need to be totally rebalanced. I've annoyed people on many forums saying this too, even people I have known for a long time but I find the crying to be really pathetic. Its as bad as people complaining about GK GM's one shotting eternal warriors.

 

2. Remove the Sanguinor? Ummm why? Some people like a bit of character in their army, or a theme. He may not be the most amazing choice, and he is expensive, but everything isn't meant to be amazing.

 

3. Mephiston is fine. He requires skill to use properly and can do some damage. Why would you want to make him an IC, if you can't sheild him from shooting then you probably need to look at how you play instead of 'problems' with the codex.

 

4. Death Company could have cheaper jump packs, but not if they are controllable. I mean they are controllable now to a certain extent you just have to play smart and use vehicles effectively. Again its a player skill thing here.

 

5. Furioso dreads... they have weaknesses but thats to be expected. We could well see in the next few releases a real reason to use them as they are now.

 

6. The Sanguinary Novitiate thing isn't a huge issue, would be nice, but if it was intended it would have been faq'd.

 

7. Captains are the weak HQ, every army has them and its unfortunate since some people liked them, but every choice can't be amazing.

 

8. Uhhh what? Probably worst suggestion I've seen. I mean sure its fine if you play a spam army, but some people actually want to try something that isn't mech, and FNP bubbles are extremely important if your playing a JP heavy list, particularly SG themed.

 

The list seems to be stuck between making the codex easier to play, which personally I don't think should EVER be a concern, and nerfing things (and personalising it to suit a fews prefered method of play). If you really agree with it that much then there is a pretty good option already available. Play normal marines. The codex has plenty of different options, plenty of coherency, and allows a variety of playstyles, which is far more important than anything else as far as I am concerned.

 

Space Wolves have the strongest codex because basically GWS made it, realised it was way over the top (and fixed it for our codex) and didn't want to nerf it via a faq the way the did for Nids (typical imperial GWS bias). Pretty sad really considering what they did to Nids.

 

Personally I think the Storm Raven should be AV 13 all around. Str 6 weapons are too plentiful for it to be worth 200 points as it is currently. It would make it a really viable choice within the codex.

 

This aside all my wishlisting is for OTHER codexes so we can see some variety on the gaming tables.

 

I hope you aren't a blood angels player cause you have completely missed the point of half of these statements and some of your other suggestion are more rediculous than others posted in tis threat lets look at things that are rediculous.

 

1. The curse is nice and unique, I've heard plenty of people crying about it and honestly I think they need to get a life. Its a game, and there are plenty of things that are annoying in certain armies. Without this ability Dante would need to be totally rebalanced. I've annoyed people on many forums saying this too, even people I have known for a long time but I find the crying to be really pathetic. Its as bad as people complaining about GK GM's one shotting eternal warriors.

 

This has nothing to do with nerfing dante or that the ability isnt good. I'f BA players are saying "this is too good" to there own dex maybe that says something? But thats not what's being said here. The ability makes no sense. Sanguinius which the helm is supposed to model, is not the type to put down curses or such, he wa the most 'pure' primach. No one is saying this ability is to goos, it just makes no sense, Since when do marines use artifacts to curse opponents, thats much more chaos than the pure angelic Blood Angels. No one is saying remove the mask just it needs some changed abilities.

 

2. Remove the Sanguinor? Ummm why? Some people like a bit of character in their army, or a theme. He may not be the most amazing choice, and he is expensive, but everything isn't meant to be amazing.

I wouldn't remove the sanguinor personally but to say he adds 'character'? He is the list characterfull unit in out army. He is a Lotd clone who has never been in our fluff. I think he is quite balanced and don't mind him in our book but as for adding character to an army he falls from that, Matt Wards wet dream, he would have been better giving us another BA special char like Moriar or a replacment for tycho or another chapter master.

 

3. Mephiston is fine. He requires skill to use properly and can do some damage. Why would you want to make him an IC, if you can't sheild him from shooting then you probably need to look at how you play instead of 'problems' with the codex.

 

4. Death Company could have cheaper jump packs, but not if they are controllable. I mean they are controllable now to a certain extent you just have to play smart and use vehicles effectively. Again its a player skill thing here. I agree he is not overpowered and requires a bit of skill, but again the poster isnt arguing this, read before you write. His stats are rediculous. He shouldnt be str and toughness 6 there is no reason for him to be stronger and tougher than abaddon. Your an idiot if you disagree that or you have never read a piece of fluff in your life. Why should he not be an IC? He in story always fights with an honour guard so he should play that way, he should also as chief librarian know all the psychic powers. If that were all to come true his points should go up. No one is saying he is overpowered there are jsut parts of him that make no sense.

 

5. Furioso dreads... they have weaknesses but thats to be expected. We could well see in the next few releases a real reason to use them as they are now.

True don't give your most venerable dreadnaughts extra armor they probably aren't worth it, my gosh im getting annoyed at how rediculous these statements are. He's not over powered or even considered competitive giving him the upgrade option most make him much better at all but will make him MAKE SENSE!

 

6. The Sanguinary Novitiate thing isn't a huge issue, would be nice, but if it was intended it would have been faq'd.

Honor guard are taken from the best in the company, it says so. Why shouldnt they be able to pich their wargear like the rest of the group? I believe they should only get one weapon slot as they need a hand to hold the grail.

 

7. Captains are the weak HQ, every army has them and its unfortunate since some people liked them, but every choice can't be amazing.

They wouldnt be amazing, a lib or chaplain would still be a better choice. The Idea for a codex in theory is that every unit is balanced, that means not too good and not too useless. It isnt about having every choice as amazing its about each choice having a use in a competitive game. The captain does not and there is absolutely no reason he shouldnt be able to take more wargear options, again it's about making sense.

 

8. Uhhh what? Probably worst suggestion I've seen. I mean sure its fine if you play a spam army, but some people actually want to try something that isn't mech, and FNP bubbles are extremely important if your playing a JP heavy list, particularly SG themed.

This I actually agree with you on, I think in game a medic would go to wherever there are wounded not just stay with the one squad.

 

And for my favorite part. You say that they made space wolves overpowered so they fixed that with our codex. Well if its fixed then why do you need to make th storm raven av 12??? The onlything that would do is make it a better unit, thus more powerful? So you either think its balanced or you dont but more importantly is why should it have AV 13?? I think that the unit is overpriced too but I dont think AV 13 is a good fix.

 

But hey thats only my opinion, your probably right a STORM RAVEN definately should have more armor than a THUNDERHAWK.. right????

 

Regards

 

Crynn

[Zealadin]

I'm sorry firstly to answer your thunderhawk comparison. Its not even a REAL UNIT. I'm sorry but its a forgeworld model which I'm assuming has forgeworld rules. I'm also going to assume it can't die to a single Str 7 hit, personally I don't use forgeworld models unless there are real rules for it, since it causes too many issues, but this comparison is just rediculous. The SR is also a ASSAULT VEHICLE. The most important point here, its for delivering front line forces, particularly those that can't succeed slogging, and AV 12 is a bit of a joke. There are plenty of other options, like the eldar skimmer rules, but +1 AV helps to preclude a very specific and common type of weapon from being effective. It also means the vehicle isn't packed with special rules, since it already benefits against melta.

 

Then you suddenly do an about face and say that the Furioso should get EA because it would make it more viable...? Personally this doesn't bother me, because there has to be some disadvantage to having a psyker dread. It makes it very much the glass canon. Surely you aren't suggesting that the Dread should get extra armour, but your claiming the vehicle, capable of space flight, which carries a DREAD AND a SQUAD of space marines shouldn't get heavy armour....? The other reason it gets so little use is the cost.

 

The Death Mask of Sanguinius makes perfect sense. If it embodies (practically his dieing emotion) the betrayel he felt from Horus then its hardly going to be a touchy feeling, lets all be happy and hug each other effect. Honestly did you even bother reading the actual fluff behind it.

You could even argue it was in some way tainted by Horus's actions and that the evil can be focused upon a foe in battle.

Honestly there is such a depth of possible reasons behind it that arguing it "can't" exist is just being obtuse.

 

Sanguinor: Every codex adds new things, its a funny thing about trying to create a universe, particularly one moving through time, but things get added and taken away. If you want to live in the past why aren't you still using the last BA codex. Really your arguements for this are purely based upon some sense of elitism over old BA lore, and your personal opinion.

 

Had you argued that individuals who never join a squad are against the entire 40k concept, in which most individuals cannot survive on their own, I'd be more inclined to see that your arguement some merit. Of course the entire idea behind several of the BA characters in this codex seems to be exactly bucking this trend to make them far more special and amazing.

 

Mephiston is what he is, I mean they are hinting at the fact that he has been corrupted by chaos, but even if its not true he is an extremely special individual.

Also in the 'stories' even if he 'fights with a honour guard' that doesn't mean they are attached to him, just like honour guard aren't always attached to the HQ they are purchased for. Fighting along side each other is still fighting 'together' he just can't quite join the squad, which isn't exactly suprising reading his current fluff. BA's are unsure if they can trust him or if he is even normal anymore, with great power comes great responsibility, and that can possibly mean he is more of a loner.

He also works exceptionally well with his current stats. I don't see how you would change these so he can 'fit' in the heirarchy of characters already created in the game without destroying his viability. WG have T6 and this guy sure would be as tough as one of them. Stats are just figures used for gaming, and as can be seen across pretty much all the codexes are rarely accurate to lore, relativity or fairness. His toughness is just an interesting way of having a character thats hard to kill without having an invuln. Its a nice change really.

Psychic powers.... he has the ones that are most relevant for killing stuff dead.. seems rather logical. Plus certain other powers would just be too powerful on him realistically.

 

Honour Guard are the best, but the sanguinary novitiate is just that, look up novitiate in the dictionary. They obviously are not 'full' Sanguinary Priests, but probably those in training. The wording of the codex is being used to reach a commonly accepted opinion of how the gear allocation works. If everyone just decided that it would work the other way then we wouldn't be talking about it.

 

The captain I think should be better, but I have to admit almost all codexes have a 'bad' choice, and unfortunately he is it. Whether its laziness or just an attempt to force people to use a reclusiarch instead who knows. Its a shame, but when you look at the captain options you have to admit it must have been done on purpose, its just such a terrible set of options. I'd guess they where going to remove captain altogether and have a reclusiarch instead but got told to put it back in with the tiny amount of thought put into him.