Pooling your GK knowledge part 7

[Gibious]

The four variants of a very expencive and vulnerable single model.

 

Vindicare: Sniper who can pick its target

Callidus: Who can move the enemy and appear anywhere

Eversor: The powerhouse of attacks?

Culexus: The official anti Psyker

 

So what is your experience of using these? Any tips to help others.

 

-Gib-

[Gentlemanloser]

So what is your experience of using these? Any tips to help others.

 

I know you're after optimism, but the best tip I can give is, don't use them.

 

For all the reasons in the other thread.

 

Breakdown by Assassin;

 

Vindicare: Sniper who can pick its target

 

Best use: Popping 1 Monolith with a Turbo Penetrator.

 

Downside: Rolling a 1 on any of his special ammo to hit or wound rolls.

 

Overall: While he might make a difference, occasionally, by picking out a Hidden Powerfist, he'll very rarely be able to make an impact on a game. With Potentially only 7 shots per game, and those not being guarateed wounds (let alone kills), on average, you won't notice him.

 

Callidus: Who can move the enemy and appear anywhere

 

Best use: For AWIYE and Her deploy exactly where you want. And hitting a TH/SS Termy in CC.

 

Downside: Enemies generally high leadership, charging someone in cover and not wounding that TH/SS termy then gettign hammernated to the face.

 

Overall: Best of the bunch, but then that's not saying much for 120 points. Redeploy can be counter by the likes of Eldrad, and Marbo and Dante can be placed wherever you want and Dante also gets to reroll a failed reserve roll.

 

Eversor: The powerhouse of attacks?

 

Best Use: He had one. Once. Probably his template on death.

 

Downside: If he reaches your opponent without them shooting him to death, they're doing something wrong.

 

Overall: He was good. Last Edition.

 

Culexus: The official anti Psyker

 

Best Use: Getting other players to go "Huh? What's that unit do. I've never seen one of these used before. Ever!"

 

Downside: Using one then not facing any enemy Psychers.

 

Overall: Was the least used Assassin last edition, when they were actually useful. He remains the least used Assassin now they're all rubbish.

[Gibious]

I know you're after optimism, but the best tip I can give is, don't use them.

 

Nope I show a positive start in an attempt to encourage all useful information, if there is any.

 

I have only used the Callidus a couple of times. She has worked with AWIYE yes, putting nids out of synapse. Also putting defending warriors into perfect flame template shape. But the rest of her lacked. Her shredder did little damage to the Necrons and after the charge failed to put enough wounds on the Orb lord and then was slaughtered by Warriors in return.

 

But hunting TH/SS termies seems brilliant

 

-Gib-

[Red Lost Soldier]

Hunting TH/SS Terminators with the Callidus seems brilliant, but in reality it doesn't work. With only 4/5 attacks and still needing to hit and wound, you are expecting to kill 1-3, and you will die instantly in return. Not exactly a bargain for your 140+ point model (price inclusive of other requirements). Unfortunately for the supposed assassination operative, the Callidus does best isolating and hitting small units of models that are not HQ or combat Elites usually. Even the almighty AWIYE has been superseded by many better deployment alteration rules. Still fun to play with but she was built for a different age.

[calypso2ts]

The Callidus cannot be exactly evalauted based on the number of points she 'makes back'. I play SoB and she brings a non linear element to the game that the army sorely lacks. She can DS where she pleases with Polymorphine which enables access to back end Gun Formations. I played a Tournament using her and here is what she did...

 

Game 1: Slight redeployment saved a turn of shooting from a Chaos LR and boxed it into a corner of terrain that required my opponent to expose Rhinos. On appearance took out a unit of 1k Sons I had dismounted.

 

Game 2: Forced DT on a Trukk and immobilized it, the mek disembarked to repair it (failed) and she appeared, sniped the Mek and stunned two more trukks with her NS.

 

Game 3: Forced a pair of DT tests on a LR, which immobilized Belial and his Terminators at the far end of the board, are up an entire devastator squad and kept a Tri Las predator shaked for 2 turns with her NS.

 

In other games she has taken out multiple Long Fangs squads and forced my opponent to protect these more fragile elements of their army. I would include her again in a second.

 

Edit: You need to include an Inquisitor to take her, but having a ld 10 unlimited range hood on the board that I paired with 3x Heavy Bolters and some 6 point ablative wounds was very nice.

[Doomaflatchi]

I've actually seen the best mileage out of the Culexus, believe it or not. Three things in particular showed me that he can be used to great effect in certain gimmicks:

 

Use 1: Taken as an ally in an Imperial Guard army along with a full Psyker Battle Squad. PBS reduces the LD of an enemy to 2, then the Culexus lays down his flame template that now inflicts Instant Death against their Leadership. Take out an entire brood of Carnifexes with one flame template? Why yes, I think I will.

 

Use 2: Taken along with Daemonhosts. The Culexus' aura of LD7 combines very well with the Daemonhosts Terrify ability, and used together this combo can add enough punch to these two lackluster units so as to make them almost worth taking. Almost.

 

Use 3: Farseer Council. Assault 22. Enough said. (Do the Eldar still have Farseer Councils in this edition? :D)

 

In regards to the Vindicare, it should be taken as a given that he will almost never make his points back... but that's not the reason to take him. His benefit is in fouling the opponent's strategy, and forcing him to alter his tactics in ways he's not used to so he makes a mistake (heck, the Callidus falls into this category now too, with her 5th Ed inability to clear her kill-zone). However, the opportunities to do this with only one shot have been drastically reduced in this edition, and you still have the problem of him just missing.

 

Ultimately, all of these uses are gimmicks, and highly situational ones at that. While they can be fun occasionally in a friendly or fluffy list, the Temple Assassins have no place in competitive battles at all.

[Gentlemanloser]

Use 1: Taken as an ally in an Imperial Guard army along with a full Psyker Battle Squad. PBS reduces the LD of an enemy to 2, then the Culexus lays down his flame template that now inflicts Instant Death against their Leadership. Take out an entire brood of Carnifexes with one flame template? Why yes, I think I will.

 

That's the Callidus and her Nural Shredder isn't it? :D

[bulley]

When I left in late 2nd / early 3rd (still quite a bit of cross over in codex's etc..) they were not used, at that stage they were pretty old school, even the "new models" were dated then. Coming back to 5th, I was like "oh nice" then saw their points cost and just thought I could give myself a Grand Master over my BC for the cost.

 

I like the idea of the special ammunition, but like the above says, with a max of 7 shots, there are better options out there.

 

They are those units that alot of people really would love to use, but just cant justify their points costs on most games.

[Doomaflatchi]

Use 1: Taken as an ally in an Imperial Guard army along with a full Psyker Battle Squad. PBS reduces the LD of an enemy to 2, then the Culexus lays down his flame template that now inflicts Instant Death against their Leadership. Take out an entire brood of Carnifexes with one flame template? Why yes, I think I will.

 

That's the Callidus and her Nural Shredder isn't it? ;)

Oops! :o Yeah, sorry about that. You're right - that's the Callidus.

[melvinmcsnatch]

I've used Vindicare a couple of times and the best use I've got out of it is rediculous people focusing their attention on him. The second time they play you, they'll probably just ignore him though.

 

Even though TP rounds should have a decent chance at popping heavy vehicles, it just doesn't happen. Even adding sniper rifles base strength and rending, it doesn't do the work. And I just plain hate taking Inquisitors.

[drou feov]

I've recently started playing 40K again (after a 12 year break) with a pure GK force (pics to follow). So this will be my first post and a "hi" to everyone from me with this appraisal for the Vindicare assassin. ;)

 

Fielded him the last game I played against a friends SW in a 1750pt. game. Got to say he wreaked some appropriate havoc.

 

These got taken out:

- jetpacking Runepriest on turn 1 with the Turbo Penetrator :D

- two of those pesky werewolf-looking things with plenty of rending attacks in CC... Wulfen, if I remember correctly?

- two power weapon fielding PA wolves

 

After the Wulfen and the power weapons were picked out, all those squads got mauled either by my GKT or PAGK in assaults.

 

Lost the game due to bad dice in the last possible moment, but all in all the Vindicare was easily the most effective unit on the table. I Bet he'll be drawing in a lot of fire the next time around...

[Gentlemanloser]

The problem with the vindicare is in the next game, you'll TP the Runepriest and roll a 1 to-hit. Or to wound.

 

Then you're using 100+ points worth of Assassin (including Inquisitor) to try to take out a couple of 30 odd point Power Weapon using Wolf Guard.

 

I'm surprised facing SW that a Long Fang didn't split thier fire and Krak Missile/Plasma Cannon the Vindi! :D

[Chengar Qordath]

The problem with the vindicare is in the next game, you'll TP the Runepriest and roll a 1 to-hit. Or to wound.

 

Then you're using 100+ points worth of Assassin (including Inquisitor) to try to take out a couple of 30 odd point Power Weapon using Wolf Guard.

 

I'm surprised facing SW that a Long Fang didn't split thier fire and Krak Missile/Plasma Cannon the Vindi! :lol:

To be fair, strict point-cost exchange doesn't always work with the Vindicare; a lot of the things he snipes tend to be force-multipliers and other models that significantly enhance the units they're in. Another poster once mentioned using the vindicare to snipe the Commissar out of a 50-man guard blob. The Commissar himself is only worth around 35-50 points, but taking away the Guard's Stubborn Ld9 makes it infinitely easier for another unit to roll them up with a sweeping advance. Likewise, knocking the powerfist out of a Marine squad before sending in your Dreadnought takes away the only weapon with a realistic chance to actually hurt the dread. His ability to snipe out Sanguinary Priests makes him excellent against Blood Angels too.

[f.desrochers]

The idea of looking at these from a return-on-investment perspective is frankly not appropriate - it's a stupid assessment tool, even more so with assassins. That you have to take an Inquisitor, which bums out a number of folk, isn't really warranted for the purposes of this discussion either.

 

Callidus: The only assassin I ever use (and I always take an IL gunline unit), she has some marvellous abilities to add to any army. That she doesn't have frag/krak grenades is a bummer but can be overcome through target selection. AWIYE is the first step, in that she influences your opponent from the very start. This has limited success come Dawn of War and all-Reserve armies. Ho-hum. The no-nonesense arrival and ability to line up the NS template is a key component. She can cross over to other units, my best result hitting a castled Tau line, targetting some rail-suits and still getting a unit of Fire Warriors, Kroot and the tail end of a Hammerhead. She isn't there to take out roxxor units but as a scalpel to inflict casualties in depth and disrupt the opponent's plan. You're looking for units out in the open (because no frag) or key units that are causing you worry. Units of Termies, Wolf-riders, AT squads, what-have-you are all viable targets. She gives an element of choice and counter-mobility (by this I mean wrecking your opponent's plan) few armies can boast.

 

Played a 4-game tourney last weekend and here is what she did:

 

Game 1 versus Mech-Eldar: AWIYE caused a dangerous terrain test for the deployed Wave Serpent. Turn 2, Dragons dismounted and melta'd my GKLR. She arrived to flame, assault and sweep up to threaten an objective. Turn 3 she moved through a ruin (easily forgotten by my opponent) and Turn 4 she flamed and assaulted the DA squad holding an objective. Major Loss into a Minor Win.

 

Game 2 versus hybrid Tau w/ Kroot: Turn 3 arrived, NS hitting two Railsuits, three Crisis suits and clipping to Fire Warriors. One suit in each squad dead, two FW dead. Resultant CC, wounded the Broadside and killed it in his turn, but it diverted Kroot back to deal with her, as well as a Crisis Suit team, leaving my IST and PAGK/GKT squads the chance to roll up and through them. Major Win

 

Game 3 versus Chaos Daemons: AWIYE obviously useless. She arrived in Turn 2, flaming a unit of Fiends, Hounds and clipped a Herald of Slaanesh, luckily wounding thoughout the squads. She supported a PAGK charge into Fiends and Hounds, lending her weight of attacks. She helped in a really one-sided Major Win.

 

Game 4 versus Space Wolves: AWIYE caused a Rhino to test for difficult terrain. She arrived in Turn 4, flaming and charging a Grey Hunter squad, killing all eight and freeing up that objective, allowing me to concentrate on contesting another of his objectives and shoring up mine. Major Loss to Minor Win and Winner Overall for it.

 

It isn't what she can do individually, but how she can support the overall plan, the synergy with the remainder of the list. For me, she works wonders, given her limitations. I can't see myself working the others into my lists (pure DH, WH, allied/inducted or otherwise) simply because they don't synergise well enough for me; one-trick ponies are not what I am looking for. For essentially an early third edition model (rules-wise), she has held up remarkably well for me.

 

;francois

[Gentlemanloser]

AWIYE aside (and you're lucky not to face Eldrad in Mech-Eldar, then you have to roll-off or argue out AWIYE versus his Redploy, which can totally negate her one good abillity), Marbo does what the Cally does. Usually better (It's rare to face Ld8 Squads you want to hit with her NS, it's usually Ld9 for wounding on a 5+ at least), as long as you don't get a bad scatter of course, for far cheaper.

 

And you do have to inlcude the necessity of taking Inquisitors to unlock Assassins as part of thier overall discussion. It's extra points spent you might not have wanted to. Even if personally you always run with an Inquisitor, others don't, and are forced to use one if they wish an Assassin.