Combi-Flamers on Rhinos

[minigun762]

I've been trying to phase some Flamers back into my list. Right now I'm toying with a variety of options including making a dedicated Flamer CSM squad, Chosen and Terminators. However a new thought hit me this morning on the way to work.

 

What about adding them to the Rhino's as Combi-Flamers?

 

Normally you only get to fire a Flamer once, so the one-shot nature isn't much of a drawback. I don't really like the other Combis on Rhinos because I want to be able to move 12" and still shoot but Flamers are still S4 so I move and shoot to full effect, plus I get an extra gun out of the deal.

 

So what do you think? Valid option or am I better off going with one of the other squads mentioned?

[Brother Nihm]

If you have the points to spare then go for it.

It would also take an added 'weapon destroyed' result before your Rhino is immobilized.

 

Flamers in squads only work as combi's for the Asp. Champs. (Rhino is better due to added range) or on Raptors.

 

 

My 2 Kraks

[A D-B]

I appreciate this is a relatively stupid answer, but "It looks awesome."

 

I tend to kit out my tanks (even doomed ones) with as much cool jazz as possible, to represent the squad gearing up their vehicle, and to make the model itself look awesome. Secondary weapons are the best way to do that, and although it might get called a waste of points, it's hard to argue with an extra flamer or three.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

How do people find Havok launchers? I like the look of them and on paper they could be usefull and help out in anti horde roles (I play Thousand Sons.) (@A-D-B, just read Soul Hunter, really nice, especially the grudge match of dreadnoughts.)

[David the Despoiler]

Lol, poor A D-B. The life of a celebrity.

 

I've never tried them personally, but I think that they ought to work rather well. Not only do you now have a second bolter to fire, but as has been said, it is yet another weapon for your opponent to tear off before it's been immobilized by 1/3rd of the results on the pen chart. Not to mention... How would we Let the Galaxy Burn without an extra flamer or two strapped onto our tanks?

[Shas'o R'Vre]

How do people find Havok launchers?

Great on LR's, Rhino's, not so great. Usually because If I'm moving, I'm not shooting, and If I'm not moving, I'm usually destroyed.

[Requiemnex]

I dont think it is a bad idea and here is why...

 

Tank shock....... =)

[Dark Apostle Lorenzo]

Havocs come with the tank sprue I think.... Its been awhile since I bought a new tank....

[minigun762]

I dont think it is a bad idea and here is why...

 

Tank shock....... =)

 

Hmm very interesting...

 

That idea seems particularly mean and nasty, which is all too fitting.

 

I gotta double check to see if you can tank shock and shoot though.

 

Overall it sounds like the best way to fit a few Flamers into my list. Not I just have to find the best way to make and attach them. I'm thinking of using the Combi-Flamers from the Terminators sprue and just gluing them next to the TL Bolter already on the Rhino, or do you guys have a better idea?

[Requiemnex]

If i am not mistaken and keep in mind i do not have my rulebook on hand...

 

Tank Shock happens in the movement part of your turn. So if you were to tank shock say 6 inches.. Then fire the flamer... I believe this to be a sound plan. As moving "flat out" prevents you from using even defensive weapons. Flat out being defined as anything above cruising speed. Therefore being 6 inches.

 

A tactic I used to use was....

 

I had 4 squads but 1 of my rhino had a havoc launcher and the other rhino full of khorne zerks. The zerks would tank shock a target. havoc launch ontop of the squad that was nice and bunched up, twin linked helped out with damage. Then hope for pinned target but if not no worries drop out the zerks next turn and assault. Good tactic for objective games.

[The Prophet]

How do people find Havok launchers? I like the look of them and on paper they could be usefull and help out in anti horde roles (I play Thousand Sons.) (@A-D-B, just read Soul Hunter, really nice, especially the grudge match of dreadnoughts.)

 

I think havok launchers are great for a cheap five man squad taking objectives. Horde and SoB take some serious damage from the havoc, and it earns it points back by killing a single marine, if you want a slow moving rhino at the back that is.

 

Combi-flamers are useful as well and would be the option for a fast moving rhino, like said above.

[Mentat]

I used 7 havok launchers in my most recent games, I usually fire 5 per turn. All my CSM squads and Chosen have autocannons. So whenever they can, they sit still and fire the autocannons from the fire point at anything with AV 11-12 and fire the havoks as well. The havoks can glance a rhino on a 6 and are nice against hordes and even decent MEQ. The reroll of the scatter die is really nice. Yesterday I faced tyranids who were spamming gaunts at me and the havoks were murderous (reroll scatter, kill on a 2)

[minigun762]

I think the biggest problem with Havoc Launchers is that there isn't a great unit to use them on. Rhinos can work, turning them into ghetto Razorbacks but there is always the issue of moving your transport forward and not firing or holding back to fire and not advancing.

 

Thats why I have been a fan of the extra TL Bolter, its cheaper and still allows you to move and shoot.

 

I think Havocbacks work best in squads that will be camping objectives like 2x Plasma CSMs/PMs or Blastmaster NMs since you can still fire out of the hatch with most of your significant firepower.

[The Prophet]

I think the biggest problem with Havoc Launchers is that there isn't a great unit to use them on. Rhinos can work, turning them into ghetto Razorbacks but there is always the issue of moving your transport forward and not firing or holding back to fire and not advancing.

 

[---]

 

I think Havocbacks work best in squads that will be camping objectives like 2x Plasma CSMs/PMs or Blastmaster NMs since you can still fire out of the hatch with most of your significant firepower.

 

I agree, it should be on the rhinos. And remember that the havocs are twin-linked - I have never missed with a havoc launcher! If you see a tight spot of enemies, for example Long Fangs in cover, you can count on the havoc killing at least one, and even more if not MEQ .

[RapatoR]

I think the biggest problem with Havoc Launchers is that there isn't a great unit to use them on. Rhinos can work, turning them into ghetto Razorbacks but there is always the issue of moving your transport forward and not firing or holding back to fire and not advancing.

Man Havoc launcher allows you to move and shoot in same manner as extra TL bolter. (6 inches with both)

[Brother Nihm]

I think the biggest problem with Havoc Launchers is that there isn't a great unit to use them on. Rhinos can work, turning them into ghetto Razorbacks but there is always the issue of moving your transport forward and not firing or holding back to fire and not advancing.

Man Havoc launcher allows you to move and shoot in same manner as extra TL bolter. (6 inches with both)

But that is the crux of the matter, you want your Rhinos to move 6+ and not 6, especially againts 'Nids.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I think the biggest problem with Havoc Launchers is that there isn't a great unit to use them on. Rhinos can work, turning them into ghetto Razorbacks but there is always the issue of moving your transport forward and not firing or holding back to fire and not advancing.

Man Havoc launcher allows you to move and shoot in same manner as extra TL bolter. (6 inches with both)

But that is the crux of the matter, you want your Rhinos to move 6+ and not 6, especially againts 'Nids.

 

This. I've been avoiding the havoc launcher thing specifically because mobility is hard enough as is with Chaos. I may have to give the combi-flamer add-on a try or two, though.

[RapatoR]

I think the biggest problem with Havoc Launchers is that there isn't a great unit to use them on. Rhinos can work, turning them into ghetto Razorbacks but there is always the issue of moving your transport forward and not firing or holding back to fire and not advancing.

Man Havoc launcher allows you to move and shoot in same manner as extra TL bolter. (6 inches with both)

But that is the crux of the matter, you want your Rhinos to move 6+ and not 6, especially againts 'Nids.

Yes but the same would apply when rhino has two TL bolters as the guy I qouted mentioned.

BTW why is mobillity so important against nids? I never played them but always thought that against hordes rhinos are used just as walls...

[Brother Nihm]

Apart from their highly contested elite slots they have horrible, horrible, anti tank options.

[minigun762]

Yes but the same would apply when rhino has two TL bolters as the guy I qouted mentioned.

BTW why is mobillity so important against nids? I never played them but always thought that against hordes rhinos are used just as walls...

 

Is does have the same issue but the extra TL Bolter is 10 points cheaper and only effective up close, so it doesn't tempted you to hang back and play artillery with the Havoc Launcher. Its sad because the Havoc is a cool little piece of uniquely Chaos wargear.

[Xeonic]

I see three potentially good platforms for Havoc Launchers, Vindis and Defilers as a backup weapon for once you lose your Ordinance, and dakka preds, to add to the firestorm(making chaos dakka preds actually a lot more damaging than the loyalist ones).

Of course this makes our dakka preds a whopping 20-30 pts more than a loyalist one, but it's also more effective. Shame there's little reason to take a dakka pred with our excellent troops and other HS choices. Might be worth taking in combat patrol or a 750 pt game or so though.

On a defiler it may be worth the 5pts you spend on it, it may not, depends on how aggressive you are with your Defilers, you could get more mileage out of the TL Heavy Flamer.

On a vindi, well it gives your vindis something somewhat useful to do once it loses it's cannon. Which will probably happen every game. TL also helps to make up for possession if that floats your boat.

 

Havoc launchers are cool, nifty, and potentially useful, but they're also a bit expensive to be putting on transports that ought to be moving upfield. Combi-flamers sound like an interesting idea to me though, you get your extra bolter shots, but also a flamer to use if the opportunity presents itself. Still, to me it's a "if you have points" type of thing, not something I'd take every game, much like the basic TL bolter.

The combi-flamer fits the chaos close combat mentality well too, you'll never be tempted to sit back and blaze away with it. :D

[--eFTy-->]

I'm a fan of slapping combi-meltas on every rhino I field. Makes them a threat even after dropping their cargo, and that one shot can really count for something - instant death on a lonely character, popping a tank, taking a wound off a monster or simply melting one marine... This thread is making me consider havoc launchers though, if I can spare some points for a few rhinos. They look very cool.