Moving large vehicles from reserves

[LPetersson]

What would happen if a large model vehicle such as a Monolith (Yes, I know it deepstrikes, this is just for the sake of argument), Landraider or a super-heavy tank was in reserves and is required to enter play by moving in from a board edge?

All of the models are over 6" in length so a player would have part of it hanging off the edge of the board. How can this be overcome, especially since Monoliths cannot be moved at Cruising Speed?

 

I suppose you could argue that the Land Raider can move 6 inches in and turn 90 degrees, but what about a vehicle that can't?

[Jakobus]

Probably that it has moved over 6", the monolith is the only thing I can actually think of that would be unable to move over 6" until you go to Apoc sized games.. and at that size I wouldn't care.

 

For the Monolith if it was force to enter from the table edge then I would say as long as the back end was against the edge of the table I would be OK with it

[Hiro_Protagonist]

Probably that it has moved over 6", the monolith is the only thing I can actually think of that would be unable to move over 6" until you go to Apoc sized games.. and at that size I wouldn't care.

 

For the Monolith if it was force to enter from the table edge then I would say as long as the back end was against the edge of the table I would be OK with it

 

Sounds reasonable.

[Commander Sasha]

This is currently a heated argument on www.thetyranidhive.com; I'm glad someone else started the thread, as my searchy failed me!

 

Monoliths aside, there is actually an issue here: If a long vehicle, such as a Land Raider, comes on it has to either

i) move at cruising speed, which means that only PMSL gets to shoot,

ii) combat speed but then handbrake turn and park sideways, or

iii) combat speed, face the way you'd like, but rear end overhangs the table.

 

Personally, I believe that over the board counts as impassable, so I would put the LR fully on but no further, and call it combat speed, or the nose 12" from the edge and call it cruising, but a five page thread on thetyranidhive has not found an official answer. It has descended into arguing the status of 'off the board', with people threatening to overhang Carnifexen and claiming coversaves, etc.

 

I humbly petition the greats of B&C for their input!

 

Sorry I've been away, I'm working on my Skaven Counts-As-Tyranids! (But my heart still belongs to Sasha)

[Seahawk]

All of the models are over 6" in length so a player would have part of it hanging off the edge of the board

It's perfectly acceptable, as far as I'm concerned. The Adepticon FAQ (unofficial but useful, mind you) gives this as its answer:

 

A: No, if a vehicle is so large it cannot totally fit onto the table when moving onto the table at combat speed, players are allowed to leave the back end of the vehicle hanging off the edge of the table [clarification]. If players are concerned about their model falling off the table they can mark the spot where it is supposed to be and then temporarily move the model fully onto the table. Note: While a vehicle is partially „hanging off the table‟, any access points off the table may not be used and any blast with the center hole over the vehicle will hit it, even if the blast is technically off the table.

 

It's my belief that models shouldn't be punished just because they're big, other than LOS purposes. You'll never find a definite answer, as the one entity that needs to address it (especially with their desire to create bigger and cooler vehicles all the time) has not and will not.

[Welsh Paul]

The Adepticon ruling makes the most sense: it doesn't punish models for their dimensions and prevents cheesy cover saves.

[Ideaus]

FAQ clearly state that if is is unable to complety move onto teh board it is destoryed, so a land raider (or equalvent) must enter via cruise, or combat an turn. price you pay.

[DarkGuard]

FAQ clearly state that if is is unable to complety move onto teh board it is destoryed, so a land raider (or equalvent) must enter via cruise, or combat an turn. price you pay.

 

And yet you don't see me forcing my opponent to take off his Land Raider because it moved slowly when entering from Reserves. Pardon me, it just seems like a cheap and sometimes cruel way to gain an advantage over your opponent, and in the spirit of the game I'd be more than happy to let him hang the end of his vehicle off the table.

 

Plus I get the warm satisfaction that I don't owe him anything as all my units can fit onto the table when moving combat speed from Reserves :).

 

Seriously though, I do think at times that the old method of deploying the unit on table and then moving was better. Sure it could be exploited at times, but so can this, just in different ways.

[Ideaus]

But if he was allowed to enter his LR from resvere with combat speed he is allowed to shot all his weapons, now if he was to have Khan with his special rules and took that LR as a dedicated transport for a termie squad he can then outflank come on the board disembark a squad in my mist then because he has only moved using combat spend unleash all his weaporny on to another target, but if he had to come on using crusing speed it would make it a less overpowered option to sum extend but still be viable.

[Grey Mage]

And? We had people doing that for years, never killed the game or the fun.

 

That being said, this is getting into tactica stuff, so if theres nothing more to be said on the rules lets carry on.

[Tanhausen]

Don't have the BRB handy but its pretty straight forward: the model or unit "walking" into the board has to fit.

 

And that means you have to get the model fully inside of the board (and then pivot if you wish, but movement does not allow tanks to "slide" on their sides...) or else it is destroyed.

 

The only exception to this is the monolith, for the simple reason it is a skimmer...than cannot move more than 15 cm (and the model is bigger). So you place it on the table, the back of the model to the edge of the board, and consider it has moved 15 cm (this is FAQed IIRC).

 

LR or whatever else, you either go over 15 cm (because they are 17.5) or they cannot enter.

 

Just as an example...if Obliterators walk onto the board and you roll a double 1... yes, they are destroyed, because they didn't finish ON the board.

 

Now its when somebody fishes out that stupid pic of the hammer...

 

BTW, the same goes for Vendetta tails/wings...they have to be in the board.

[Seahawk]

Yep, disregard my earlier quote (from Sept. last year), as it has since finally been addressed by GW:

 

Q: What happens when a unit arrives from reserves but is

unable to completely move onto the board? (p94)

A: The unit is destroyed and removed from play.

In Tanhausen's Obliterator example, they actually all did move onto the board but not completely, so they are destroyed. The same goes for any unit.

[Tanhausen]

Yep, disregard my earlier quote (from Sept. last year), as it has since finally been addressed by GW:

 

Q: What happens when a unit arrives from reserves but is

unable to completely move onto the board? (p94)

A: The unit is destroyed and removed from play.

In Tanhausen's Obliterator example, they actually all did move onto the board but not completely, so they are destroyed. The same goes for any unit.

 

Shame on you... your rule clarifications should be timeless :confused:

 

I hadn't actually checked the dates...I don't understand the post :P

[Ming]

Wow. I never thought about this in a serious way till now. From a purely tournament POV, a landraider or other >6inch long veicle will have to move at cruising speed (or more) to get on the table. Means a LR is reduced to the POTMS shot +/- S4 bolters on the turn it enters from reserves or turn 1 in a DOW scenario.....COOL!

[Seahawk]

Same with any big vehicle. Our club adjusted, and it doesn't really affect any battle plans at all.

 

@Tanhausen: Ha, well that little bit in the FAQ wasn't yet released, and we played by rules of niceness. GW decided to rule the other way in favor of tournaments and the like.

 

You'll never find a definite answer, as the one entity that needs to address it (especially with their desire to create bigger and cooler vehicles all the time) has not and will not.

I guess they finally did! :)

[Hellios]

I know this is OR but I ignore this rule... as if I'm not mistaken... Super-Heavies move 6 inches (for a standard tank) and are normally long... Oh whats this can't bring the baneblade on from reserve?

[ShinyRhino]

Wow. I never thought about this in a serious way till now. From a purely tournament POV, a landraider or other >6inch long veicle will have to move at cruising speed (or more) to get on the table. Means a LR is reduced to the POTMS shot +/- S4 bolters on the turn it enters from reserves or turn 1 in a DOW scenario.....COOL!

 

Can't fire the defensive weapons unless it moved 6" or less. More than 6" means only the PotMS shots.

[Grey Mage]

I know this is OR but I ignore this rule... as if I'm not mistaken... Super-Heavies move 6 inches (for a standard tank) and are normally long... Oh whats this can't bring the baneblade on from reserve?

That is correct.

 

Given the nature of apocalypse though, and that its an entire expansion of rules upon normal 40k, I think it a common sense ruling to disregard that FAQ for games involving super-heavies.

[DevianID]

I just want to mention for the monolith's movement special rule an interesting note. Because the monoliths special movement rule is that it can only move 6 inches, and by only moving 6 inches it would be prevented from moving onto the board, the reserves rules tell us to ignore any special rules that would prevent the model from coming on the board. Thus, the one and only time a monolith can move more than 6 inches is when coming on from the board edge.

 

As for the balance of needing a land raider to move over 6 inches to fit on the board, I see no problem with that. I greatly dislike the 'hanging off the edge' scenario presented, because there is no need for it. The land raider can move onto the board with no trouble, you just lose a few shots. Same with the valkyrie. If we allow them to hang off the board then any vehicle should be allowed to hang off the board, and if we allow them extra distance on their move to get on the board while only counting as 6 inches, then all vehicles should have that. I know if I move a dreadnaught 7.5 inches, but declare that its only going to count as 6 inches, my opponent has every right to take exception to that.

 

As for superheavies, are they able to move more than 6 inches in a turn?

[Seahawk]

Normal superheavy vehicles cannot move more than 6", and are physically longer/wider than 6" in almost all cases.

[Brother Valerius]

I know this is OR but I ignore this rule... as if I'm not mistaken... Super-Heavies move 6 inches (for a standard tank) and are normally long... Oh whats this can't bring the baneblade on from reserve?

 

tbh I would say it should be ignored for normal games of 40k as well. It's an incredibly stupid rule. If someone insists on playing by The Rules , then you have to follow it, but any reasonable group should house rule it out.

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

I know this is OR but I ignore this rule... as if I'm not mistaken... Super-Heavies move 6 inches (for a standard tank) and are normally long... Oh whats this can't bring the baneblade on from reserve?

 

tbh I would say it should be ignored for normal games of 40k as well. It's an incredibly stupid rule. If someone insists on playing by The Rules , then you have to follow it, but any reasonable group should house rule it out.

Stupid or not, it's the rules, and the only common ground we all have when it comes to this game.

[Dan VK]

Stupid or not, it's the rules, and the only common ground we all have when it comes to this game.

:P

[Brother Valerius]

I know this is OR but I ignore this rule... as if I'm not mistaken... Super-Heavies move 6 inches (for a standard tank) and are normally long... Oh whats this can't bring the baneblade on from reserve?

 

tbh I would say it should be ignored for normal games of 40k as well. It's an incredibly stupid rule. If someone insists on playing by The Rules , then you have to follow it, but any reasonable group should house rule it out.

Stupid or not, it's the rules, and the only common ground we all have when it comes to this game.

 

Sure, it's the rules. I even said as much in my post. I'm simply saying that in any reasonable setting, this one should get house ruled away because it's a really stupid rule (particularly in Apocalypse).

[Isiah]

Indeed. The Games designers obviously forgot how large some vehicles are :)