So its finally clicked....

[douchie]

I've only been collecting 40k since xmas & only gaming since the new codex was released.

 

As a new gamer I have struggled to find consistancy in me results. Ranging from close run draws to embarassing defeats. very rarely did I pull out a result.

 

I think my main problem was that to start with I wanted to play all the new shiny models I had collected, Ie, Sang Guard, sangunior, Lemertes, Death Company, DC Dread, Space Hulf Terminators... etc etc.

 

In a 1500 list it is easy to get side tracked have a disjointed force.

 

The last few weeks have seen a dramatic change in fortunes & I'm currently 3 wins, 2 draws & 1 close run defeat in the last 6 games.

 

A few of these have been 1000 point games in preperation for a little tourney my local group are going to start up.

 

My 1000 point list is as follows.

 

Seth & 5 RAS in Razorback -

RAS with JP, PW, PP, MG

RAS with JP, PW, PP, MG

VV with 4x PW & 1 xIP

Vindicator

 

This list is very nasty, The Razorback & Vindi tend to work well together & in objective games, deepstriking RAS are great! With a re-roll on when they arrive from reserve you can pretty much manipulate when they arrive. Ie Early to alter opponents game plan, destroy armour or later to claim an objective.

 

The VV are designed for a surgical deep-strike to take out a HQ or 'nasty unit'. In a 1000 point games this has worked well.

 

In 1500 I tend to add, Lemertes & some DC with JPs & a DC Dread.

 

Any comments, critique please feel free to share.

[SamaNagol]

Your list is INCREDIBLY fragile to shooting and also dedicated assault armies like Tyranids. I can see you having problems because you literally cannot take much damage at all before your units are ineffective.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

Dude.. this is 1k points!

 

What makes this list so incredibly fragile? The 2 tanks? The 3 fast units?

Really, post productive and think about the situation and not just post LOLZ THIS SUCX! (sorry for leetspeak, but it came across that way)

 

I like the list really.. 3 jumpy squad and 2 Armoured units. A nice loadout for the limit point number of 1000.

The only real issue I see here is a lack of anti-tank because you choose for Plasma Pistols over Infernus. But this may have to do with the local meta?

[douchie]

Dude.. this is 1k points!

 

What makes this list so incredibly fragile? The 2 tanks? The 3 fast units?

Really, post productive and think about the situation and not just post LOLZ THIS SUCX! (sorry for leetspeak, but it came across that way)

 

I like the list really.. 3 jumpy squad and 2 Armoured units. A nice loadout for the limit point number of 1000.

The only real issue I see here is a lack of anti-tank because you choose for Plasma Pistols over Infernus. But this may have to do with the local meta?

 

Oops, this was my error, both Jumppack squads also have a Melta gun each, I'll amend the post now.

[Mudpuppet]

I really like your list, its simple and gets to the point fast, also all your units are threatening so your opponent cant risk ignoring any of them which is great for bending an opponents psyche.

 

I agree with Brother-Captain Devlonir though, i would replace plasma pistols with infernus because you need some more anti armour and IP are great anyways and fluffy. Im also suffering from lack of anti armour in my list atm so i know it needs to be sorted.

 

Mudpuppet

[Khavos]

I'd go with a 2LC Captain over Seth, personally. Don't see the benefit in the guy.

[gustmic]

The flaws that SamaNagol is pointing out (I believe) are:

 

- You have chosen to go both the "Rhinos/Razorback"-way and the "jump-pack way".

Not choosing he vehicle way makes the units vulnerable to shooting.

But since you have decided to go the jump-pack way, you should definitely bring Sanguinary Priests to gain FNP USR.

As they drop down from the skies, they need that extra protection.

You may also want to add a Libby with 'Shield of Sanguinius' to give you some extra protection against AP1-2 weaponry.

 

- You have given your units PW. Although it feels nice to slice through power armour and the like with it at a high initiative, you fail when meeting MCs and dreadnoughts. Blood Angels do not have Combat Tactics and will therefore get stuck in combat.

Instead, bringing a Power Fist is not only a great insurance (vs. MC, Dreads, and the like), a great threat (vs. T4 multi-wound models) because of the risk of instant death, and finally, you can use it quite offensively because you have great mobility with your jump packs and can thus choose when and where to charge.

 

- You also bring a multitude of different targets to your opponent.

During turn 1, the enemy can focus his few anti-tank shoots against your few tanks.

Not a bad thing for your opponent.

When the infantry do come in he can focus all his/her fire power on whatever comes down.

 

- You lack melta guns. With a mobile jump pack list (which is what your list mostly consist of) you need to up the melta guns. One inferno pistol is not going to cut it when presented with multiple tanks (UPDATE: I saw that you have clarified your RAS with PP and MG, still stand by my suggestions). Here, your power fists can be fruitful, although they should NOT be considered an effective AT-weapon.

 

- The Vindicator is commonly considered ineffective and fragile. Scattering pie plate, AP2 that you can ignore when in cover, poor side armour, short-ranged weapon combined with only one major weapon makes rolling on the damage table a lose-lose situation.

 

- With a librarian, you gain anti-psychic ability with your hood.

 

 

So, if I may suggest.

 

1000pts

1 Librarian, JP, Shield of Sanguinius, Blood Lance (or The Sanguine Sword)

10 Assault Marines, JP, PF+2MG

10 Assault Marines, JP, PF+2MG

2 Sanguinary Priests, JP

5 Vanguard Veterans, JP, PF, 4 LC, IP, 1MB

 

 

When going for 1500pts, the DC can be taken for the 'cool factor', but is also considered fairly weak.

DCs with JPs are expensive for what you get and there are already units that do what they do.

The problem is they cost a lot and they can be led around with little or no control when in Rage (USR).

 

To the above mentioned list I would probably look to add Honour Guards with melta guns, bring some Storm Shields to the VVs, and bring down the number of Lightning Claws.

 

/gustmic

Visit my full jump-pack BA WIP blog

[douchie]

I'd go with a 2LC Captain over Seth, personally. Don't see the benefit in the guy.

 

 

He's great to be honest.

 

4 wounds, 4 attacks standard. Always hits at strength 8 Rending, has a special move where he automatically hits anything in base contact, has another where any 1's rolled against him incur a strength 4 hit in return.

 

The dude rocks for 160 pts

[SamaNagol]

At no point did I even abbreviate my language, let alone use 'leetspeek'. Don't be so insulting.

 

This is a mixed arms list. It has one armoured target which will take the entirity of all anti armour long ranged shooting. It has nothing which buffs its dedicated assault units, no Librarian, no Chaplain and no SPs. It is unfortunately very much suffering from jack of all trades syndrome.

 

HOWEVER the sentiment of the OP is very promising. He is identifying the need for synergy between his units and a supportive list rather than picking random scraps. Blood Angels as a codex works through combined arms, but they need to play on their strengths.

 

The single Razorback again is very easy to disable, leaving Seth stuck out of position and unable to help out where he is needed. Whilst the RAS units have no FnP benefits and will get taken down by massed small arms fire, or ground out in Assault because their initial hit is not hard enough.#

 

Personally, instead of Seth and the RAS in Razor and the VGV. I would go for 2 Sanguinary Priests with Jump Packs and PWs and a Librarian with a Jump Pack and Honour guard.

[Mudpuppet]

1000pts

1 Librarian, JP, Shield of Sanguinius, Blood Lance (or The Sanguine Sword)

10 Assault Marines, JP, PF+2MG

10 Assault Marines, JP, PF+2MG

2 Sanguinary Priests, JP

5 Vanguard Veterans, JP, PF, 4 LC, IP, 1MB

 

This is almost exactly the list i use at 1000 points except i have one of the assault squads at 5 man and only one sang priest, and the VV are a little less pimped out, and that nets me enough points to squeeze in honour guard with JP, 2 x meltaguns, blood champ and a power fist.

 

But i dont really see your problem with a combined jump pack tank list. If anything you could use the jump infantry to deep strike distracting his guys, and trying to kill a heavy weapon unit with the VV while your tanks advance relatively un shot at.

 

Mudpuppet

 

Edit: Huh, i didnt even notice lack of Sang Priests, guess i just assumed all BA lists used em. My bad, ignore previous sentiments.

[gustmic]

Yeah, I'd probably knock down the number of LCs etc from the VVs and keep them cheaper. Or just switch Lightning Claws to add Storm Shields.

I kept the LCs there to keep in the spirit of how douchie wanted the VVs to work.

 

An Honour guard unit full of meltas is certainly tempting.

It would definitely work.

But now we are talking nuances. :)

 

/gustmic

My full jump-pack BA WIP blog

[Khavos]

I'd go with a 2LC Captain over Seth, personally. Don't see the benefit in the guy.

 

 

He's great to be honest.

 

4 wounds, 4 attacks standard. Always hits at strength 8 Rending, has a special move where he automatically hits anything in base contact, has another where any 1's rolled against him incur a strength 4 hit in return.

 

The dude rocks for 160 pts

 

Eh. 2xLC Captain's cheaper, actually manages to ignore armor with every swing, and will end up with more attacks on the charge. They'll both die to Power Fists, so I'd take the cheaper if it were me.

 

But if you like him, rock on.

[Aramis_the_Red]

Personally, instead of Seth and the RAS in Razor and the VGV. I would go for 2 Sanguinary Priests with Jump Packs and PWs and a Librarian with a Jump Pack and Honour guard.

 

This^

 

Seth is a great HQ, I just don't think he has any synergy with this list. A JP Libby or Reclusiarch w/ a HG will be a lot more valuable in a small game than some VGV and a razor that's just going to be a smoking crater a turn or two later stranding your heavy hitters in the backfield(you can run, but you can't hide... well you can, but it kinda defeats the point).

 

Also, if you're going w/ jump infantry, Sanguinary Priests are a must. They add a massive boost to your defensive capabilities, and FC is an insanely good combat multiplier. Pair that w/a libby and unleash rage, pure gold baby... wait, that's sanguinary guard... pure carnage baby.

[Rybnick]

I played a small 1k point game last night against CSM my list was

 

Libby - JP Shield/Sword

 

Chaplain - JP

Sang Priest - JP

 

2x ASM - JP, PF, 2xMelta

 

2x Dev's (5 man) - 2x ML

 

I prefer Dev's to VV to support my JP armies, I've just been let down too many times by my VV (likely my fault, i.e. poor unit selection, scatter, or load out). It works pretty well for the most part, I seem to whiff a lot with my ML's but I whiff a lot on everything it seems (my dice hate me).

[Demoulius]

Brother-Captain Devloni, as far as i can see he was offering constructive critism.... 5 man squads are incredibly fragile and without FNP they do horribly fast(unless he meant 10 man squads, at which case its decent but still only leaves you with 2 troops). they dont have the numbers to take on hordes in combat nor have enough shooting to care of them NOR enough of anything to take care of MC's (which tbh are horribly easy to come by...)

 

the OP also said this list works for him i think, i doubt that totally reworking his list is what hes asking for ;)

 

if i were him, id add some priests or other things that enhance the overall performance of his army. add some numbers and/or beef up excisting squads. a squad of DC is also a nice option but id stuff them in a rhino and let them ride alongside seth so your forcing your opponent to pick his fire :devil:

 

i dont quite understand the naysaying for the vindicator. hes one of the best tanks we have...alongside the baal.

 

to each his own i guess but tbh if the list works for you id say keep it that way for a while :tu:

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Morticon is also running a combined arms style list and doing very well. I like the list as posted here and can see why it is working well. Congrats to the OP for doing well.

 

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