Apocalypse Barrage

[dswanick]

Greeting, all. Ran across an interesting quandry with my LGG. Are Apocalyptic Barrage weapons barrages per Pgs.32 & 60 of the BRB? The weapon rule has Barrage in the name, and refers to itself as one by stating "If the center is in range, the weapon has hit and the barrage is left in place, otherwise remove it". It then goes on to decribe how specific models under the template are hit. It does not, however, state that it is a barrage per the barrage rules (ie. hitting "top" armor, causing pinning, etc). Thanks in advance for the replies.

[KhorneHunter57x]

I do not believe that they are, as Barrage is a special rule of the weapon itself, either by listing "Barrage" after it's AP value, or by having a G beside it's range value.

 

That said, most (if not all) weapons that use this template are either already Barrage weapons (identified as such by one of the two methods that I listed above) or are Bombs, in which case they hit the top armor anyway as they are 'fired' (dropped) by Flyers.

[dswanick]

I do not believe that they are, as Barrage is a special rule of the weapon itself, either by listing "Barrage" after it's AP value, or by having a G beside it's range value.

 

That said, most (if not all) weapons that use this template are either already Barrage weapons (identified as such by one of the two methods that I listed above) or are Bombs, in which case they hit the top armor anyway as they are 'fired' (dropped) by Flyers.

OK, so far so good but every Apoc Barrage weapon says "Apocalypse Barrage" after the AP value, just like all Large Blast weapons say "Large Blast" or "5" Blast" after their AP. So logically (yeah, yeah, I know - we're talking GW here) an Apocalyptic Barrage should be a subset of Barrage rules just as 7" Blast is a subset of Blast rules - both distinguishing the specific template used but still being of the listed category. A smoking gun would be if anyone knows of an official battle report where an Apoc.Barrage casued pinning or hit the top armor of a vehicle. Anyone? If no, I'm inclined to agree that common usage english aside being named a barrage and referring to itself as a barrage in the rules is insufficient evidence.

[stinkenheim]

Isn't Apocalypse Barrage simply the name of the template, much like Large Blast, Blast and Template are the names given to the templates used by the weapons?

[Grey Mage]

An 'Apocalyptic Barrage' uses a large template that looks like its made of 5 Large Blast templates- it does not use the barrage rules from the BRB, but rather the rules as detailed in the Apocalypse supplements.

 

Each part is numbered, and you apply the weapon strength to the part you rolled for that shot on the barrage- thus, apocalyptic barrage 8 you roll 8d6, and apply the strength to each model under the part of the template you rolled- each time. So if you have 5 models under the area marked '3' and you roll that four times, youll get 20 hits, and so on.

[dswanick]

Thanks Grey Mage. I know what the Apocalyptic Barrage template is, and how it works. I was asking if anyone knew of information which would difinitively identify if it is or is not a barrage weapon per the rules on pg.32&60.

[Seahawk]

The Orbital Bombardment and Scheduled Bombardment hit vehicle's side armor, but that's because they specifically say so in the rules for each. Otherwise, I'd still consider all Apocalyptic Barrages as Barrage weapons...but I can't find anything other than both are barrages, albeit one is Apocalyptic. It's not the type of template used, it's actually a weapon type, exactly like Barrage or Rapid Fire or Sniper, etc.

[dswanick]

The Orbital Bombardment and Scheduled Bombardment hit vehicle's side armor, but that's because they specifically say so in the rules for each. Otherwise, I'd still consider all Apocalyptic Barrages as Barrage weapons...but I can't find anything other than both are barrages, albeit one is Apocalyptic. It's not the type of template used, it's actually a weapon type, exactly like Barrage or Rapid Fire or Sniper, etc.

Yes, that's the argument of one side in my game group :

Missile Launcher (Krak) - 48" S4 AP6 Heavy 1, Blast

Hellfury Missiles - 72" S4 AP5 Heavy 1, Large Blast

Hellhammer cannon - 36" S10 AP3 Ordnance 1, Massive (7") Blast, Primary weapon

Mortar - 48" S4 AP6 Heavy 1, Blast, Barrage

Apocalypse Missile Launcher - 24-360" S7 AP3 Apocalypse Barrage (5), Primary weapon

So if Large Blast = Blast, then shouldn't Apocalypse Barrage = Barrage?

 

A counterpoint to this is that the Apoc Missile Launcher has a note line "The Apoc Missile Launcher fires as an Ordnance Barrage" and why would it have to specify that it's a Barrage if Apocalypse Barrage = Barrage by definition. The Apocalyptic Barrage rules don't actual state something to the effect of "The Apocalyptic Barrage is a Barrage weapon", while the Massive Blast and Apocalyptic Blast rules specify that they are Blasts and the Hellstorm template is a Template weapon.

[Sparhawk]

The clarification could be for the ordanance portion meaning you roll 2d6 and pick the highest for vehicle pen.

[Seahawk]

And that it causes a pinning check at -1 :)

 

I noted that too dswanick, along with that it's spelled out in the Orbital Bombardment as well that it hits side armor. If that was a normal effect, surely it'd be redundant to retype it everywhere? Unless of course they realized that nobody could find the darn rules in the book because they'd only be looking at the Assets during the game...who knows.