thundrchickn Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 So some of us must have heard that dark eldar are coming back in 2 months. I've been checking out as many of the rumors as possible and I think MEQ BA is going to become much less viable than it currently is. No more AV13 spams and there will be so many S8 weapons on the board to make every transport a smoking char. Another thing is every DE cc will have some sort of poison so with higher I than us we may not have the advantage in cc. Some examples of possible units becoming more mainstream in the BA line could be Devestators- replacing razorspam for tank killing while holding 4+ cover saves in terrain. JP lists- once again-cover being important while maintaining speed needed to catch DE speed. Mephiston- if DE don't have fearless as a base I can see Mephy coming out the woodworks tearing up squads with his wings and high I. Possibly not if De have anywhere near as much anti psyker ability as regular eldar. Tell me what you think. I think we'll carry the day no matter what but current trends may need a major change. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 I don't really care, I never put faith in armor anyway. And seriously, there is never a reason to cry "DOOM" till you read the codex, reread the codex and study the codex word for word and really decide "doom". EDIT: Oh and I think you meant "mech" BA, not MEQ BA. MEQ stands for "marine equivalent"; BA ARE LITERALLY MARINES, so theres no reason to say "end of MEQ BA". Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2513692 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 I agree that devestators would probably see more use because you can sit a 10-wound heavy weapon team into cover making them much tougher than a tank. Add in the priest and you're golden. Perhaps the best setup would be 2-3 devestator squads combat squaded about your deployment zone so you can take out 4-6 paper planes each turn. In addition, I wouldn't be surprised to see techmarines being used to bolster cover saves. 3+ armor, 4+ fnp, and 3+ cover. Sounds pretty solid to me. Keep a squad of combat squadded assault marines or a tactical squad forward of the devestators to meet a charge. Keep the techmarine back as well for that powerfist deterent. It would probably be a good idea to invest in a few cheap gun servitors for the techmarine as well. Heavy bolters should do fine. Though it would be risky you could take scout bikes with cluster mines. Use the mines on the area terrain one of your devestator squads is in but make sure those marines will not have a need to move. As soon as the DE run into your building they trigger and soften up the assault. Assuming dark lances aren't stupidly dirt cheap just because it's dark eldar I'd imagine predators would still be popular. Most mech armies would probably do well to deploy second or deploy in reserve. Unfortunately there is nothing stopping the DE from waiting it out behind cover as you muster your forces on your front. All they need is one turn of crippling firepower to break an army. Outflanking Baal's being counted on for late game fire support could be a valuable wildcard though bad luck could cost you. Speeders would probably be great with the MM/HF setup. Keep the squadrons behind cover of course and wait for an opportune moment to strike at an isolated vehicle or two. Predator destructors still have their autocannon but unless it's in cover it will probably be shaken often. To be honest I really doubt Mephiston will ever be striking before any DE lord. I'm sure the Archon will have I8 or something rediculoulsy high...again. Of course, as with any army, proper preparation and a good strategy should be enough to carry the day. Remember, we've had our codex for a while now. The BA players know how their book works in its current form. I'd like to hope that the DE players will have to relearn their fabled army giving us the edge to learn as we crush. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2513695 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingareth Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 You're kidding right? If there's any army that can stand up to the Fast Skimmer/Lance/S3 army of doom you're claiming that's coming, it Mech Angels. None of that MEQ stuff, although the title made me laugh. Lances don't do anything special against armor 11 or 12 We're fast, they're fast, looks like we're all on the same playing field S3? Oh noes, too bad we have Feel No Pain. Also, you want to know what the best things for cracking open armor 10 and 11 open-topped transports are? Assault Cannons and Autocannons! You know what every good Blood Angels list should have? Lots of Riflemen Dreads, Baals, and Razorbacks. I'm not worried about them at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2513719 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Gunzhard Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 I don't really care, I never put faith in armor anyway. And seriously, there is never a reason to cry "DOOM" till you read the codex, reread the codex and study the codex word for word and really decide "doom". I agree on all accounts. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2513742 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dekyr Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Really Dark Eldar will be just faster Orks. Talon Dreads will chew up DE warriors. PC dev squads will do lots of dmg even to transports. You will likely see low armor open topped vehicles. They will attack with powerful weapons, speed and numbers while BA attack with moderate to powerful weapons, speed, and better armor. As 4 ed DE player, they packed a punch then but can suffer greatly to a couple of bad rolls. they take alot of planning to play due to their weaknesses. I surmise that they will be on the same playing field as BA. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2513745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 i cant wait to see the new DE! :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2513750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneHunter57x Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 And seriously, there is never a reason to cry "DOOM" till you read the codex, reread the codex and study the codex word for word and really decide "doom". And you can't cry Doom anyway, as that is a Craftworld Eldar power, not Dark Eldar. :) Anyway, I think that the best thing for Blood Angels against DE is the Baal Predator (either with AC/HB sponsons or just the Flamestorm), as the Dakka Baal puts out quite a number of shots brutally effective against most DE units (assuming they keep the thin-hulled skimmers), and the Great Baal of Fire (Flamestorm) will even be somewhat effective against the skimmers (due to open-topped vehicles being Vulnerable to Blasts/Templates). Honestly, I don't think that most Blood Angel players will need to adjust much to counter Dark Eldar. You have enough speed to play their game, and you should have greater staying power. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2513806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 This finally sounds like a challenge, and a chance of having opponents besides marines in every game. And even if Mech/spam armies vanish, what´s so bad about that? I find them simply boring and uncreative, and if the release of the new DE codex leads to the point that many players will have to re-think their lists, that´s totally fine with me. Hopefully this will add some variety to competitive lists. Snorri Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2513814 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joasht Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 I've played DE for about 10 years myself (although Space Marines/Blood Angels will always be my true love :lol:) and to be honest if the new DE codex is similar to the current one in the sense that almost everything is a paper-thin open-topped vehicle with paper armored warriors, the simplest answer is very simply having many shots. Bolters, Heavy Bolters, Assault Cannons, Flamers, really anything with sheer weight of fire, would strip any Dark Eldar army down in just a turn or two (of course, this is a simplistic way of putting it, a well-played DE army and/or dense terrain would ruin your shooting efficiency, but you get my point). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2513830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorider2 Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 The end is near chicken little? To be honest, I'm skeptical. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2513840 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Cover won't help much against flamers, another option against DE in cover would be sternguard :o add a few combi weapons to give them that extra punch against certain squads and your safe. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2513904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybnick Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 The paper thin vehicles coupled with paper thin armored pasengers is a big drawback to the DE. Many is the time that I popped a Raider/Ravager from across the baord and managed to kill 5-6 passengers by the vehicles explosion alone. Add in the fact that open topped vehicles suffer a +1 to vehicle damage on the chart and it's pretty easy to make them explode most of the time, even more so if your using melta. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2513939 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramis_the_Red Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 This is a joke post right? We haven't seen one printed word about DE yet, so anything said is just conjecture at this point. Yeah, they'll likely be able to spam Lances all over the place. However, as was stated before, Lances do nothing special to armor 12 or less, so how is this any different to playing against a SW player who spams Long Fangs with MLs? Also(unless GW really screws the pooch), the DE will be a fast, lightly armored, elite, assault based, skimmer mech army. We are a (not-quite-as)Fast, Power armored, elite, assault based, fast tank and Jump based Army... with feel no pain and Furious Charge all over the place. I honestly anticipate BA versus DE to be some of the most competitive, fast paced, exciting, and evenly matched games you'll play in this edition. I'm chompin at the bit to play against DE. To put it as bluntly as possible, I'm not scared. I'm excited. -A Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2513968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haunter! Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 If you can pop a trukk, you can pop a raider. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2513991 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redempter Sanguine Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 I have to agree with Aramis on this one - I'm more excited than anything. Most of the armies I've been going up against lately are Tau and an Ork Dred list...an army where I have to actually out-manuever my opponent while he is trying to do the same against me? Yes please! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2514026 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorien Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 There are already plenty of S8 spam armies out there. Have you not yet faced a 20+ missile wolf list? I play Orks with rokkit spam, putting more then 20 on the board PLUS 20 or more lootas. I honestly don't think DE will bring enough new things to the metagame to change anything, won't play the current metagame any better then anyone else, and they are still S3 T3 5+ save space elves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2514045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mlund Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 I'm actually hoping the Raiders jump up to Rhino-level armor - like AV11. It is ridiculous that I can bring them down from the front with bolt pistols. I want to have to at least point my Heavy Bolters and Assault Cannons at them. - Marty Lund Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2514075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Wait, who playes dark eldar? Im really not bothered as i can kill anyhting of theres that can kill me... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2514156 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 16, 2010 Share Posted September 16, 2010 Like it's been said it's all just speculation at this point. To me it doesn't matter what they get, any army can be defeated. We have lots and lots of tools plus I don't see the new Dark Eldar being faster than Blood Angels. I would like to see Dark Eldar shake things up a bit. The new Tyranids was a major disappointment in so many ways. Maybe Dark Eldar will get some insanely stupid and totally broken units but that does not really scare me. I'm still very happy with our new codex in many many ways. 0b Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2514176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodancient Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Wait don't they all have like AV 5+ or something. So there's always fast rhinos full of Tacs which is one thing that we have that i'm pretty sure no one else does. So we might see a resurgence of Tacs instead of RAS or Maybe an evening out of the list and a new opponent sounds fantastic. Bring on the bad news from Commoragh The Angels of Death shall have the Day. Oh and P.S. it was on GW yesterday in the back of the new white dwarf. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2514184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Dark Eldar never did it for me. I don't really like the concept, the models, or the rules (although in the right hands they can be deadly on the table). I just wish they'd bring back Exodites. An Exodite 'dex would make me very happy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2514295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 And seriously, there is never a reason to cry "DOOM" till you read the codex, reread the codex and study the codex word for word and really decide "doom". And you can't cry Doom anyway, as that is a Craftworld Eldar power, not Dark Eldar. ;) DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!!! Anywho. I figure that mech BA has its issues to begin- not the least being increased cost for a lower model count. DE will have tradeoffs- in general itll be harder to cripple a BAs speed early in the game, but on the other hand a lower model count means that they can focus fire more and play feinting games. Footslogging BA seems more viable in general, with armored support as LR anti-tank and insurance. @Wildfire: If a GW designer would push through an Exodite codex Id seriously consider naming my first born after him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2514309 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherMoses Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 Kill the alien! WE WILL KILL! I can't wait to test out my hand flamers and Baal Predators on some black leather clad eldar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2514320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Devlonir Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 I think games vs Dark Eldar will be fun! Mostly because they can match us in our speed and are one of the few armies that will actually strike before us in CC with their assault units. An army which actually makes me run for my money when it comes to assaulting who I want to assault? Yes please! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211285-the-end-is-near-for-mech-ba/#findComment-2514339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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