Psychers

[Thurgam]

Hail brothers

 

A quick question for all of you, how are psychers in the game have not used them yet (will be using one in my first game on Monday) just wondering how they are in general. Thanks

[raptor1199]

they are pretty good IF you have 5ed

this means that DA liberians are only good for giving table wide LD10 hood

 

ps: its psyker not psycher

[pueriexdeus]

Well the whole table wide hood is a good thing but there is more.

 

In general the DA Libbie has +1 BS/A & I, though a lower Ld than everyone else. Hellfire has come in good for several times. And yes sometimes it's a waist of effort. This makes him a CC monster compared to other Codei. Plus 1 attack and a higher Initiative, makes for much more than a good hood.

 

I'll mention that it seems as though most DA players don't even know this. And I say that because no one else mentions it but me.

[Thurgam]

LOL Never said I could spell. Thanks for the correction.

[breng77]

While it should be noted that he is better in CC than most other generic libby's, he is by no means a monster, as most other HQ will put him down pretty easily (in fact, a BA Libby is probably better). Also, our table wide hood is only LD 9. It is not that our Libby is terrible I'm just not sure that he is better than other similarly priced HQ choices in our book. I almost never take more than one HQ, and then it is usually a special character (Belial or Sammi) as what they add to the force is better than what a libby contributes.

[Tomevans]

Getting a force weapon on the table is always useful, it is incredibly annoying for an opponent when you take down one of his many wound monsters or tooled up HQ characters in one hit. Our psychic powers are worse than C:SM but our librarians are stronger in CC, as pueriexdeus has said. Terminator Librarians work well along side Belial, 2 strong HQ units that complement each other nicely.

[pueriexdeus]

While it should be noted that he is better in CC than most other generic libby's, he is by no means a monster, as most other HQ will put him down pretty easily (in fact, a BA Libby is probably better). Also, our table wide hood is only LD 9. It is not that our Libby is terrible I'm just not sure that he is better than other similarly priced HQ choices in our book. I almost never take more than one HQ, and then it is usually a special character (Belial or Sammi) as what they add to the force is better than what a libby contributes.

Actually no. The BA Libbie is in line with C:SM

[breng77]

Yes except that he can be upgraded to take 2 Psychic powers, which can give him, preferred enemy, or strength 10 (making him cause instant death to most things without a force weapon) So while he is worse stat wise, he can hold his own with powers. On top of which the Preferred enemy extends to the whole of his squad, so it makes him better. My other issue with our LIbby is that while allies are still allowed, the GKGM does the same thing (he is much more of a combat monster and his force weapon is better.) For about the same price for 20 points more you get a LD 10 hood, and a Str 6 force weapon that ignores eternal warrior. You also get one more wound and one more attack. If you are going for the 2 HQ hammer unit (termis, with banner and lots of Claws), the chaplain is infinitely better as he allows you to reroll failed hits on the charge and having that many power weapon attacks rerolling is a great bonus.

[pueriexdeus]

Yes except that he can be upgraded to take 2 Psychic powers, which can give him, preferred enemy, or strength 10 (making him cause instant death to most things without a force weapon) So while he is worse stat wise, he can hold his own with powers. On top of which the Preferred enemy extends to the whole of his squad, so it makes him better. My other issue with our LIbby is that while allies are still allowed, the GKGM does the same thing (he is much more of a combat monster and his force weapon is better.) For about the same price for 20 points more you get a LD 10 hood, and a Str 6 force weapon that ignores eternal warrior. You also get one more wound and one more attack. If you are going for the 2 HQ hammer unit (termis, with banner and lots of Claws), the chaplain is infinitely better as he allows you to reroll failed hits on the charge and having that many power weapon attacks rerolling is a great bonus.

I agree with the Chappi, I'll always try to stick one in my dedicated CC Termi Sqds.

 

A far as the DA Libbie goes I was bringing his stats up to show there is more to him than meets the eye.

[Isiah]

I've always liked psykers in a marine force -- gives you a little something extra. Agreed that the DA libby isn't great -- and the force weapon is negated considerably in 5th edition with the multitude (it seems) of Eternal Warriors around :(.

 

Cheers

I

[breng77]

They the force weapon is really down graded for several reasons.

 

1.) Lots of eternal warriors.

2.) Lots of invul saves on independent characters.

3.) Lots of Psychic defense running around.

4.) Many of the things you want to instant kill are T5 or greater (tyranid monderous creatures) Meaning that the chance to wound them is quite low.

[Ash]

I just look at LD 9 on a standard Librarian and think its not enough, as mentioned you can take a GKGM with LD10 instead. Mind worm is great but you only get it with Ezekiel who is the only LD 10 character, a normal librarian has a shooting psyk attack but IIRC (someone with a codex will correct me) its treated as a heavy weapon he can't move and shoot.

All in all I just don't see the point in taking a LD 9 psyker when you can grab a chaplain who adds a lot more in combat with attached to a bunch of power weapons.

I would take Ezekiel or a GKGM in a larger points game.

[breng77]

I'm pretty sure that Hellfire is an assault power.

 

Also, Mind worm is pretty terrible actually, it is a heavy shooting attack so you cannot move and fire it. It only has an 18" range, and it forces a LD test. Most things I want to use this on would be LD 9+, so the odds of them failing are pretty poor.

[SeattleDV8]

Since only Ezekiel is the only Librarian that can take Mind Worm it is a power that is never (ok very ,very rarely) used.

Hellfire can be a bit random but, it does average out to ST-5 with an AP of 3.5, which is not bad for a no cover save attack.

I tend to take two Librarians in a list to even the odds in the game, add a flamer and although the Librarian is not as good in CC as the Chaplins the multiple template attacks before the assault can be great.

Even a Ld9 psychic hood can annoy your opponent, adding a GreyKnight Brother-Captain or Grand Master jumps this to Ld10.

[Grey Mage]

Hail brothers

 

A quick question for all of you, how are psychers in the game have not used them yet (will be using one in my first game on Monday) just wondering how they are in general. Thanks

Considering the formidable psychic powers of many recent codexes the protection given by a psychic hood is an absolute godsend, that the DA have one that covers the entire table is certainly one of the advantages of playing with an older codex, and makes the libby a very competitive option for the all rounder list.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

I've found that a table wide hood is worthless if you don't have LD10.

In my last 5 or so games including psykers I've managed to avert the use of a grand total of 1 psychic power.

Yay me.

In other words: Don't bother with the C:DA psykers, take a GKGM instead, you'll get a Str 6 old school force weapon that kills even eternal warrior as well.

 

Just my opinion of course.

[breng77]

I agree the LD 9 hood is just not a good reason to go for a libby (especially when you can get allies for the moment)

 

Just some stats for you guys on LD 9 LIbbies

 

An LD 9 hood will shut down an LD 10 psyker (most of them) ~27.8% of the time

 

An LD 10 Hood Will shut down an LD 10 Psyker ~41.7% of the time

 

An LD 10 Hood will shut down an LD 9 psyker 58.3% of the time

 

A rune priest will shut down either down 50% of the time.

 

Runes of warding/ Shadows in the warp will shut down an LD 9 psyker 62.5% of the time and an LD 10 Psyker 50% of the time

 

An LD 9 psyker will get a power off 83.3% of the time and an LD 10 will get it off 92.7% of the time.

 

 

What this all means is that in a game of 5 turns an LD 9 hood shuts down one power (assuming only one is used a turn) an LD 10 hood will shut down 2. An LD 9 Libby if in LD 10 hood range will only get to use 34.7% of his powers (31.25 against nids or eldar) which equates to about 1 or 2 powers in the course of a 5 turn game. This really defeats the point of having that force weapon if you are in range of any kind of psychic defense. For instance against a tyranid monsterous creature with shadow in the warp (say a tervigon) You get 5 attacks on the charge odds say you hit 3.3 (hitting on 3s), Which equates to 0.55 wounds (wounding on 6s) Of those you only have a 0.17 Instant killing wounds. Which over the course of a game will not even average one kill of that tervigon.

[farseerixirvost]

How do you get allied GK Termies? I thought both =][= books were "re-released" via PDF with the ally rules removed. Meaning there is no rules for allowing allies anymore.

 

The only time I see DA librarians is in Terminator Armor and a Terminator-heavy or Deathwing force.

[pueriexdeus]

How do you get allied GK Termies? I thought both =][= books were "re-released" via PDF with the ally rules removed. Meaning there is no rules for allowing allies anymore.

 

The only time I see DA librarians is in Terminator Armor and a Terminator-heavy or Deathwing force.

 

Prior to the GK PDF and after the BRB release DA found we were lacking in the Libbie department. So since it became acceptable to codex shuffle, lots of DA players found a reasonable alternative to the DA Libbie. This is of course is just my opinion.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

Long story short: It's been stated by GW that the lack of ally rules in the PDFs is of course a mistake.

Welcome back, Mr. GKGM :)

[breng77]

GW has officially stated that it is up to the tournament organizer. They stated that if you have the codex with the original rules that you may still take allies. (This ruling came out during ard boyz). So you are still allowed to take allies in most cases, unless your local playgroup has ruled otherwise. If you were looking at the PDF it also leaves out the force org chart, so by that logic you could just not take an HQ or troops.

[pueriexdeus]

And you do know that a real Dark Angel will not take a Grey Knight Libbie.

Just thought I'd mention it.

[Ash]

Dark Angels have been reported to have left the theatre of combat in the presence of some inquisitors . I dont think that behaviour could be extended to mean they would refuse to fight or ally alongside the Ordo militant, the grey knights. The deamon hunters codex lists Dark Angels as possible allies. Given the fact no grey knight has ever turned to chaos and their pyskers possess full knowledge of the warp along with the point the Inquisition are the Inquisition and not grey knights, I suggest the Dark Angels would find them and their pyskers useful allies.

[pueriexdeus]

Dark Angels have been reported to have left the theatre of combat in the presence of some inquisitors . I dont think that behaviour could be extended to mean they would refuse to fight or ally alongside the Ordo militant, the grey knights. The deamon hunters codex lists Dark Angels as possible allies. Given the fact no grey knight has ever turned to chaos and their pyskers possess full knowledge of the warp along with the point the Inquisition are the Inquisition and not grey knights, I suggest the Dark Angels would find them and their pyskers useful allies.

I'm just throwing it out there because (fluff wise) the DA try to avoid the ]I[ whenever possible. Not that they wont play with them.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

It's an old discussion and I won't fall for the bait, but consider this:

Fluff vs Crunch is only fun as long as you aren't constantly reminded of how inferior your stuff is if you play it fluffy.

Me, I like my DW army. It considers only of DW typical units, i.e. terminators, terminator ICs, dreadnoughts and land raiders. I consider it fluffy. My GKGM is a DW painted Space Hulk librarian with a giant force axe (Str 6).

 

Good day.