elohimalpha Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) Knight-Errant, 2nd Company++Records Incomplete++Through the process of genetic screening, the Lions of the Dawn have determined that they are descended from Rogal Dorn, but the chapter responsible for their founding remains a mystery. Chapter records reach back only 1,000 years, and historical dataslates from Lux Demum only hint at Space Marine presence in that sector roughly 200 years before that time. The Chapter hopes to recover more information when they unearth their Fortress-Monastery on Nox Termina.Darkness Falls Late in M40, the Lions of the Dawn launched a massive assault on Chaos reavers that had plagued the systems neighboring Nox Termina, the Lion Edited March 15, 2011 by elohimalpha Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted September 17, 2010 Author Share Posted September 17, 2010 Hail, Brothers! Figured it was time to forge my Chapter in the fire of Public Opinion. Let me know what's good, what's crap, and what just doesn't make any sense. Also, I have pages of "history" (see: back-story) but didn't know if this is the place for that. If so, I can work some in where appropriate; if not, then I'll spare all of you. Thanks in advance for your advice! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2514907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neisseria Posted September 17, 2010 Share Posted September 17, 2010 (edited) I don't normally like "animal-themed" Chapters but I quite enjoyed reading about this one. In particular I like the names and themes given to the different sections (Young Lions, Gryphons etc) and the battle cry. The homeworld and the idea of honouring all the Primarchs are both cool too. Admittedly I'm not as knowledgeable on SM lore as I one day hope to be, so there are better people here to offer constructive criticism - but seems good so far! Keep it up. EDIT: Forgot to say, the battle-at-dawn theme is also really nice too. Definitely one of my favourite parts. Edited September 17, 2010 by Neisseria Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2514947 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted September 18, 2010 Author Share Posted September 18, 2010 Thanks Neisseria! It's just as important to know what people like as what they don't like - glad to know it was an enjoyable read! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2515621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted September 19, 2010 Share Posted September 19, 2010 Overall, I think it was a good read, although there are a few areas I would like to bring up. First, I am not a big fan of the unknown founding and gene-seed. At the moment, this comes across as lazy writing like you cannot be bothered to detail these parts of the chapter. Whilst I presume this not to be true, it is how it comes across. I would suggest picking a founding and a gene-seed as the mystery of being unknown does not lead to anything interesting in the chapter or follows through. The Origins section is rather weak. I know a lot of people find this the hardest section to write unless there is some story to the background of the chapter to tell (i.e. a massive defeat, victory etc), or they go the other way and have a detailed history that is too in-depth. You mention a few of these greatest victories and defeats, why not flesh a couple of them out so we get a feel for the chapter. The homeworld section seems a little confusing, you have two planets named Nox Termina - one seems to be a deathworld that used to be something a little more but now is lost, and the other has been renamed but is quite an active world. Care to explain? Just because there homeworld does not have too much metal on doesn't mean the chapter would be lacking in equipment - they will recieve that from a forgeworld via the AM. I think you could expand upon the Brothers of the Night as loners, outcasts from the chapter for liking the darkness compared to the dawn. They could be looked down upon, but as Chapter Master, the CM has to acknowledge the dirty side of war and it is these men that do that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2516040 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted September 20, 2010 Author Share Posted September 20, 2010 (edited) Thanks for the feedback Ferrata! I agree that the origin is a little weak and that the whole "unknown Primarch" thing has been done too much, but I wanted to really emphasize that the Lions are really pretty disconnected with their past, and they're unhappy about it (to say the least). I know it doesn't really come across, but I didn't want to launch in to a "rich and compelling" backstory if there's no interest (or if this is even the place for that). Basically what happened is a major offensive against a pirate fleet in nearby systems kept the Lions away from their homeworld of Nox Termina. The planetary governor seizes power, setting of a civil war that escalates before the remaining Lions can respond, and the end result is the world is thrown into a nuclear ice-age. The Lions return victorious but badly broken, only to find their homeworld, along with the Chapter's relics, wargear and history burried under miles of ice and raging storms. So, despite the crushing blow to morale, they set up shop on Lux Demum, a fairly insignificant backwater, and make lemons out of lemonade, repairing what they can, and vowing never again to allow a non-Marine govern a world under their protection. They also dedicate the entire 7th company to the search and retrival of Chapter artefacts from Nox Termina. *whew* So, hopefully that explains a little. Is there an appropriate spot for that in an IA article? Add a "History/Major Events" section? I tried to stick with the basics shown in the forum guide, and didn't quite know where to fit that in. I guess I'm a little unclear on what the AM provides, and what a Chapter is expected to provide for itself. Do Techmarines not make gear, just maintain it? I always pictured the Master of the Forge hammering out some power armor with a big (grim) smile on his face. If the AM just provides everything though, that makes it easier on my boys. Glad you like the Brotherhood of the Night; the Captain of the 5th company has adopted some of their tactics and requests their help far more often than other companies, earning them the nickname "the Black Lions". They're definitely more unorthodox, and it's lead to some friction within the Chapter. Thanks again for the feedback, and let me know how/where/if I should incorporate all this "new" stuff. Edited September 20, 2010 by elohimalpha Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2516652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Thanks for the feedback Ferrata! I agree that the origin is a little weak and that the whole "unknown Primarch" thing has been done too much, but I wanted to really emphasize that the Lions are really pretty disconnected with their past, and they're unhappy about it (to say the least). I know it doesn't really come across, but I didn't want to launch in to a "rich and compelling" backstory if there's no interest (or if this is even the place for that). It is quite simple to do that. With my Wings of Death, I just said that they didn't really venerate a primarch or the Emperor, they never met them. Instead, they looked to their own heroes as their champions. Basically what happened is a major offensive against a pirate fleet in nearby systems kept the Lions away from their homeworld of Nox Termina. The planetary governor seizes power, setting of a civil war that escalates before the remaining Lions can respond, and the end result is the world is thrown into a nuclear ice-age. The Lions return victorious but badly broken, only to find their homeworld, along with the Chapter's relics, wargear and history burried under miles of ice and raging storms. So, despite the crushing blow to morale, they set up shop on Lux Demum, a fairly insignificant backwater, and make lemons out of lemonade, repairing what they can, and vowing never again to allow a non-Marine govern a world under their protection. They also dedicate the entire 7th company to the search and retrival of Chapter artefacts from Nox Termina. This doesn't really come across very clearly purely because of this - Lux Demum (formally Nox Termina) - which reads more like the planet was formerly named Nox Termina and not that their home world was formerly Nox Termina. Plus it is formerly (previously) not formally (officially). If you drop the formerly bit and then say in the Nox bit that it used to be the home world. I would also suggest changing it to a final task of a scout to bring back a relic/something from the past. Dedicated one entire company to it is a lot of manpower - 1 tenth of the chapter and one 10,000th of all Space Marines. I guess I'm a little unclear on what the AM provides, and what a Chapter is expected to provide for itself. Do Techmarines not make gear, just maintain it? I always pictured the Master of the Forge hammering out some power armor with a big (grim) smile on his face. If the AM just provides everything though, that makes it easier on my boys. It is never overly explained - for the majority of items the AM will provide it - especially the bigger items. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2517053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 I see what you're saying about the "Homeworld" section - it is a bit confusing, especially when I say "formally" instead of "formerly". I'll cut that out, since it's easily explained in it's own section. I like your idea of recovering a relic as a trial of initiation, but I fear that would leave my recruitment numbers really low. I had pictured that data and/or relics are only uncovered once every couple of years. I think I will make a special badge of honor for a Marine that uncovers something, though - could add some good flavor to some models. And I should rework "They also dedicate the entire 7th company to the search and retrieval of Chapter artifacts from Nox Termina." - the 7th is stationed on a moon orbiting Nox Termina and is the company most actively involved in the recovery effort, earning the name "The Ice Watch" but they are still an active combat company, training on the harsh surface of Nox Termina and recruiting from its feral population. Elements of other companies train with the 7th, and participate in the search as well. I'm at a bit of a loss to explain the Lion's low number of tanks/warmachines if the AM can just get them set back up again. Maybe it's a matter of honor to the Lions' high command: their lack of foresight led to the weakening of the Chapter, and they won't accept outside help with rearming (charity) until they recover their monastery. Needs a little polish, but it plays into the Lion's pride as a hindrance. The Lions do have some tanks and a few dreads, but most of these have been cobbled together from what they could salvage from the actions against pirates nearly 2000 years ago. Needless to say, when something is recovered on Nox Termina, there's much rejoicing. As far as the unknown Primarch, I'm leaving that in - I know it may seem like an easy way out, but it provides the Lions with a spiritual motivation to recover their artifacts, rather than just leave them as purely military in value. I do like your idea of having the Chapter's own champions rise to fill the spiritual void left by a missing Primarch - it would be interesting to see a "conservative" (pro-Primarch, concerned with the past and recovery) vs. "progressive" (pro-Champion, concerned with the future and expansion) split within the Chapter's ideology. And now that I think of it even more, it's a pretty good hook - done! It won't devolve into open warfare within the Chapter, but there's going to be some strained relationships between some companies. Already no one outside of the high command trusts those sneaks from the 5th company (the Black Lions), and the 6th (the Victors Repentant) are on everyone's bad side for their actions 400 years ago (regarding the small matter of a disputed outcome of a recruiting tournament and "extreme civil unrest"). Hmmm . . . fluff explosion . . . Thanks again for the feedback Ferrata; you've given me a lot to consider! And to you other lurkers, don't be afraid to chime in and tell me what parts are crap. Oh, and as far as reworking my original post, do I just make the changes and note it at the bottom? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2519680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted September 27, 2010 Author Share Posted September 27, 2010 Alright - made some changes, most notably to the Origins section, and some to the beliefs. The Chapter is slowly evolving, I think, and I keep coming up with bits I want to throw in or expand on, so hopefully you (the readers) will bear with me. Thanks again for the comments and help! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2522857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Ok. There are my comments. I'm maybe too harsh, but bear with me. ;) Of the 9 companies that departed the system, only 200 brothers returned. Only 200 brothers? I'm sorry man, but your Chapter is teetering on the brink of destruction. Either rise the number or explain how they recovered from such losses. ...and have proven to be excellent recruiting stock for the Lions, accounting for roughly 30% of all recruits.... Raging storms and strong radioactive interference in the atmosphere have made the search both tedious and dangerous. Yeah, because the Ice-ball of raioactive slag is the best place for recruitment. :D The planet is constantly scoured for Chapter relics by the 7th company, known as “The Ice Watch”, which has established a permanent fortress on Nox Termina’s second moon. If they really want recover their lost relics, history and whatsoever... They will sent more than a single company, especially if the planet is covered in "miles-thick ice". Through the process of genetic screening, a few of the Primarchs and their successor chapters have been ruled out as founders, leaving their possible Primarchs: Roboute Guilliman, Vulkan, Jaghatai Khan, Ferrus Manus, and Lion El'Jonson. I don't buy this. For simple reason, your Chapter is paying tithe to Admech and "drumroll" Admech has huge archives about Foundings and created Chapters. Thou shall ask and receive. Second, even battle-brothers usually know about their gene-seed lineage and Primarch, it's not like they suddenly forget about them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2523137 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted September 28, 2010 Author Share Posted September 28, 2010 Thanks for the comments NightrawenII! No worries about the comments being "too harsh" - they weren't, but even if they were, that's what I'm here for: to improve my Chapter. Only 200 brothers? I'm sorry man, but your Chapter is teetering on the brink of destruction. Either rise the number or explain how they recovered from such losses. 200 surviving Marines is a bit low, you're right - on average it works out to 22 Marines per company coming back. When combined with the 10th Company that stayed in-system, the Chapter would be at about 1/3rd strength. I could see increasing this a little, but it's probably the darkest and most significant period in the Chapter's history, and the number "feels" right. You're absolutely right about my needing to expand on how the Chapter recovers from these events, and I'll try to work it in somewhere; the Origins section doesn't seem like a good fit for it - maybe in the Organization section? Yeah, because the Ice-ball of raioactive slag is the best place for recruitment. :) Heh, I know, but there's other death-worlds out there that seem equally ridiculous, and anyone that could survive in that environment would be pretty tough. The Lion's numbers would be pretty low for a while, meaning they'd have to get creative with their recruiting sources, and pulling the feral survivors off their fallen homeworld and turning them in to the Emperor's elite seems like it would be a significant "spiritual" act, to atone for the Lion's laxity. If they really want recover their lost relics, history and whatsoever... They will sent more than a single company, especially if the planet is covered in "miles-thick ice". This is a point I've been struggling with a bit. My thoughts are like this: the Lions really want to recover their past, but they're gum-chewing butt-kicking super-soldiers, not archeologists. A fraction (20-25%) of the Chapter is hardcore-recovery, while another faction (again, about 20-25%) is staunchly-"learn from our mistakes, but let's move on", with the rest of the Chapter somewhere in the middle. Ferrata also made the excellent point that dedicating 1/10,000th of all the Space Marines in existence seems like an awful lot of forces to commit, especially when there's killing to be done. Hence, "the Ice Watch" is mostly comprised of Marines from the 7th, with other Companies "exchanging" a squad now and again if the Captain feels it's important. Progress is extremely slow, with perhaps a handful of recoveries made in a generation. I don't buy this. For simple reason, your Chapter is paying tithe to Admech and "drumroll" Admech has huge archives about Foundings and created Chapters. Thou shall ask and receive. Ha, more problems with the AdMech again . . . is there a primer or something I can read on the relationship between the AdMech and the Astartes? Having the AdMech come in and fix all of my Chapter's problems seems a little too easy. What if the High Command doesn't want to ask the AdMech about their past? They've committed themselves to refusing material assistance from the AdMech; it wouldn't be too much of a stretch (at least, I don't think so) that they wouldn't want to shame themselves by admitting they're clueless about their past. Second, even battle-brothers usually know about their gene-seed lineage and Primarch, it's not like they suddenly forget about them. You've got me stumped on the "common" Marine not knowing their gene-seed lineage. I'll have to give that some more thought (obviously!) - all I can come up with right now is that the High Command kept it a secret (which would be strange) and never passed the info along before they were wiped out. Or that they thought they knew who their Primarch was, but without concrete evidence to back it up, competing theories have arisen over the 2,000 years and a case can be made for all of them. Just spit-ballin'. Again, I appreciate the time and thought you guys are putting in to your comments/criticisms (which have been purely constructive!); I can already feel my Chapter becoming more "real". Thanks! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2523691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 Thanks for the comments NightrawenII! No worries about the comments being "too harsh" - they weren't, but even if they were, that's what I'm here for: to improve my Chapter. Only 200 brothers? I'm sorry man, but your Chapter is teetering on the brink of destruction. Either rise the number or explain how they recovered from such losses. 200 surviving Marines is a bit low, you're right - on average it works out to 22 Marines per company coming back. When combined with the 10th Company that stayed in-system, the Chapter would be at about 1/3rd strength. I could see increasing this a little, but it's probably the darkest and most significant period in the Chapter's history, and the number "feels" right. You're absolutely right about my needing to expand on how the Chapter recovers from these events, and I'll try to work it in somewhere; the Origins section doesn't seem like a good fit for it - maybe in the Organization section? The gene-seed section seems to be more appropriate. If they really want recover their lost relics, history and whatsoever... They will sent more than a single company, especially if the planet is covered in "miles-thick ice". This is a point I've been struggling with a bit. My thoughts are like this: the Lions really want to recover their past, but they're gum-chewing butt-kicking super-soldiers, not archeologists. A fraction (20-25%) of the Chapter is hardcore-recovery, while another faction (again, about 20-25%) is staunchly-"learn from our mistakes, but let's move on", with the rest of the Chapter somewhere in the middle. Ferrata also made the excellent point that dedicating 1/10,000th of all the Space Marines in existence seems like an awful lot of forces to commit, especially when there's killing to be done. Hence, "the Ice Watch" is mostly comprised of Marines from the 7th, with other Companies "exchanging" a squad now and again if the Captain feels it's important. Progress is extremely slow, with perhaps a handful of recoveries made in a generation. Yeah, but SM Chapter is not about regular marines only. You have Techmarines and thousands upon thousands willing workers in the form of the Chapter's serfs(= these guys do everything the Astartes don't bother with). In fact, there is no need for Space marines in the Ice Watch. I don't buy this. For simple reason, your Chapter is paying tithe to Admech and "drumroll" Admech has huge archives about Foundings and created Chapters. Thou shall ask and receive. Ha, more problems with the AdMech again . . . is there a primer or something I can read on the relationship between the AdMech and the Astartes? Having the AdMech come in and fix all of my Chapter's problems seems a little too easy. What if the High Command doesn't want to ask the AdMech about their past? They've committed themselves to refusing material assistance from the AdMech; it wouldn't be too much of a stretch (at least, I don't think so) that they wouldn't want to shame themselves by admitting they're clueless about their past. IIRC there is article about Admech and Astartes in the Liber. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2524027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted September 30, 2010 Author Share Posted September 30, 2010 Thanks for the follow-up NightrawenII. I'm making some changes to emphasize the Chapter's "rebuilding" status, and I'm doing my homework on the AdMech. You're right about Marines not needing to do all the recovery grunt work on Nox Termina, and I should put in a blurb about the various forces aiding the process (serfs/Techmarines/Librarians/etc.). I think it's important to have actual Astartes on hand though, since the planet is still extremely important to the Lions historically, spiritually and militarily (radioactive ice-ball though it be). I can't see the Chapter Master just saying "Hey, how 'bout you guys that couldn't hack it as Marines team up with these guys we don't fully trust and look after our Chapter's spiritual heart." I'm going to emphasize some of the Ice Watch's other duties (recruitment/training/outpost) so the presence of Marines in those numbers doesn't seem too out-of-place. I still haven't come up with a half-way believable story to how the Marines lost their founders, and I'm open to suggestions. As long as the suggestion isn't "Give them a Primarch" - that's the easy way out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2525432 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Aardappel Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 A fan of the Lannisters, are you? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2526223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted October 1, 2010 Author Share Posted October 1, 2010 Heck yeah - they showed those Starks who's boss Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2526291 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share Posted October 12, 2010 Updated geneseed section and added a break-down of the 10 companies in the org. section, with minor literary changes throughout. C&C more than welcome! Thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2534721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted October 19, 2010 Author Share Posted October 19, 2010 Added some fluff to the home world section, and fleshed out the Chapter a bit more throughout. Let me know what you guys think! Thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2540678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astral Scorpions Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 I have to say, the Ice Watch makes a lot of sense from where I'm sitting. While they don't do the recovery work, they watch over the world, protecting it from raiders and the like. They are also in charge of recruiting from the truly bare minimum people upon the world. In addition, it makes sense that a Death world is used as an Asturate training ground. There are plenty of reasons for them to maintain a Company over their lost world. Just don't focus too much on them. This is unique enough without having to give them an extremist view on Primarch, what direction their chapter should take (obstinately they are the most dedicated to the recovery, but they just might be following orders). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2540701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 Thanks! The Ice Watch is one of my favorite features too - they've evolved a bit since their first appearance. Good advice on keeping them out of the political game; they depend so heavily on the other Companies' goodwill that Captain Gelidus can't afford to irk anyone. He's a moderate conservative, but keeps his opinions to himself. As far as focusing any more on them, I won't. They feel pretty solid now, and nothing else really needs to be added (except for tedious backstory!) Thanks again for the comments! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2540841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted October 26, 2010 Author Share Posted October 26, 2010 Added info to the combat doctrine section, as well as some info for my Space Hulk-inspired termie squad, the Morningstars. As always, C&C is more than welcome, and appreciated! Thanks for reading Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2546110 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 ++Unknown++ Founding: Previous to the 26th Founding To be honest, this is obsolete. We can infer it from what you are saying: Chapter records reach back only 2,000 years, and historical dataslates from Lux Demum only hint at Space Marine presence in that sector roughly 200 years before that time. The Chapter hopes to recover more information when they unearth their Fortress-Monastery on Nox Termina. Each is overseen by a Chapter Master (Master of the Gryphons and Master of the Manticores) who is responsible for training, recruiting (both from within the Chapter and from without), and company assignments. This need a re-wording. Chapter Master is guy in charge of the whole Chapter. Traditionally, only the planet's families of wealth and status had the opportunity to receive a formal education and focused military training. The Lion's need for effective recruits removed all societal barriers, allowing all male children, regardless of their social station, the opportunity to become something greater. At odds with each other, if the nobility are the only ones with some kind of education, then the recruitment base is really narrowed. Especially given the Lion's recruiting techniques. And as you do understand this will cause a lot of friction. Not only between marines, but also amongs the people of Lux Demum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2547456 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted October 28, 2010 Author Share Posted October 28, 2010 Thanks again, NightrawenII! Always glad to have you read/comment! To be honest, this is obsolete. We can infer it from what you are saying:Chapter records reach back only 2,000 years, and historical dataslates from Lux Demum only hint at Space Marine presence in that sector roughly 200 years before that time. The Chapter hopes to recover more information when they unearth their Fortress-Monastery on Nox Termina. Good call! This need a re-wording. Chapter Master is guy in charge of the whole Chapter. Hah, whoops. I'm not really sure how I let that one through. I kept thinking of the Master of the Watch, Recruits, etc. models in C:SM, and just focused on the "Master" part I guess. Thanks! At odds with each other, if the nobility are the only ones with some kind of education, then the recruitment base is really narrowed. Especially given the Lion's recruiting techniques.And as you do understand this will cause a lot of friction. Not only between marines, but also amongs the people of Lux Demum. Yeah, things were pretty rough on Lux Demum for a couple of years after the Lions "adopted" it. It was always in their sector, but it was a backwater world full of wannabe-nobles, and the Lions were content to let them have their quirks as long as they didn't cause trouble. That all changed when Nox Termina fell and the Lions set up shop. Which brings me to a point I've been thinking about - am I placing too much emphasis on the political situation of the Lions? Things aren't hunky-dory by any means, but at the end of the day, when there's an enemy to fight, the Lions take care of business and worry about the other stuff later. I feel that it's important to the Chapter's identity that there's political turmoil, both within the Chapter and on their worlds, but I know it's no fun to read about without interesting characters to back it up (which is out of the scope of an IA, I believe). So, I ask: leave it, cut it, or expand it? Again, thanks for reading! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2548070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightrawenII Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 You could do several things. Sweep it under bed and be done with it is always viable idea, but I think its interesting concept so... The system of feudalism is based on the belief, that the nobility is better suited for ruling than common folk or that they are chosen to do it. Now, your Chapter recruits from both noblity and common folk, which means that commoners start to think: "If we are as good as the nobiltiy for Astartes, we could be as good as them in other areas." And possibility of social revolt is sown. Which is ironic, given the fact that Lions are doing everything to prevent another rebelion. It also makes a opening for various subversive groups, like Chaos cultists etc. etc. Another thing is rivalry among the Astartes. It is healthy rivalry, like units doing their best (although they could be reckless sometimes)? Or is it bitter in-fighting among its ranks, when one group see the other as inferior, while the other is trying to prove their worth? Again there is a lot of openings for Ruinous Powers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2548293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted October 29, 2010 Author Share Posted October 29, 2010 You could do several things. Sweep it under bed and be done with it is always viable idea, but I think its interesting concept so... The system of feudalism is based on the belief, that the nobility is better suited for ruling than common folk or that they are chosen to do it. Now, your Chapter recruits from both noblity and common folk, which means that commoners start to think: "If we are as good as the nobiltiy for Astartes, we could be as good as them in other areas." And possibility of social revolt is sown. Which is ironic, given the fact that Lions are doing everything to prevent another rebelion. It also makes a opening for various subversive groups, like Chaos cultists etc. etc. Another thing is rivalry among the Astartes. It is healthy rivalry, like units doing their best (although they could be reckless sometimes)? Or is it bitter in-fighting among its ranks, when one group see the other as inferior, while the other is trying to prove their worth? Again there is a lot of openings for Ruinous Powers. Woo! I'm glad it's coming across without going overboard. I'll leave the political discord in for sure then - good to know it's interesting instead of out-of-place. Among the general populace, the Lions are somewhat content to let the Houses duke it out, as long as it doesn't spill over into civil war and threaten their recruiting. The Lions are far too busy fighting real enemies to micromanage the civilian populace, and besides, a little conflict can temper their recruits. I definitely think that Chaos cults are a likely possibility, especially with the more disenfranchised living out in the Fastosus system: the new worlds aren't proving to be the "land of opportunity" everyone thought. Combine that with a reduced Marine presence (2 companies to a world vs. 4-5 on Lux Demum) and it's only a matter of time before some tentacles start popping up. As far as company-company conflict, I'm going to keep that to a minimum. Yeah, there's bad blood between the 6th and the 8th, nobody really trusts the sneaky 5th, and just about every company has it's own idea about the Primarchs, but they're all committed to protecting the Imperium. I like the idea of a healthy rivalry, with some glory-hogging and not-so-good-natured-taunting that occasionally gets out of hand, but nothing worth going over to the Ruinous Powers for. Besides, my Chaplains are always ready to lay the smackdown on any bad behavior; after the Purge of Fastosus, they have no patience for that kind of behavior. Companies with something to prove - I like the idea. The 5th would obviously fall into that category: they're semi-outcast because of their sneakiness, but they're effective nonetheless. The 9th are sort of aloof, but everyone recognizes their worth. The biggest glory hogs would be the 3rd (they're even named after their Captain), who currently resent the 8th company for being the "people's favorite". Thanks again NightrawenII; your comments really helped to solidify another detail! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2548927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
elohimalpha Posted November 10, 2010 Author Share Posted November 10, 2010 Ok, quick update - added a few quotes for extra-grimdark flavor, and made a few tweaks throughout. Right now my biggest thought is: should I replace the Dark Eldar reavers from the Origins section with Chaos? My grasp of DE isn't very strong - they for sure fit the vibe of raiders and pillagers, but it seems unlikely that they would get in a protracted fight with a large Marine force. Any advice on this end (or any end!) would be great. Thanks for reading! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211398-ia-lions-of-the-dawn/#findComment-2558883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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