Demitra Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Apologies if this has been addressed before. I went through 15 pages of threads, but that only covered about a month. Quite the turnover here. I've been out of the hobby for years, since 3rd edition, and am coming to grips with the new BA paradigm. While I love that I can take tons of assault squads now, I can't quite figure out how to fit them into the makeup of the chapter as a whole. I've collected with an eye towards finishing off a company, the 4th in particular, and am a tactical squad or two short of accomplishing that goal. This worked fine in 3rd ed when I couldn't run more than 3 assault squads at most, but in my list building exercises so far I'm coming up with at least 3 squads. My problem is that the 4th company is a battle company and as such only has 2 assault squads. I had hoped that the fluff was changed with the new codex, something along the lines of tactical squads running as jumpless assault marines, but sadly that is explicitly contradicted. How do I fit multiple assault squads in while sticking to my single company? The best answer I have come up with thus far is to pull the 'extra' assault squads from the 8th company, but I'm not satisfied with this solution as it would expand my army beyond the 4th company. I think I'll have to resign myself to pulling in other companies, but I'm hoping someone has a solution for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Well that's a tough cookie and one that I also have pondered. I think I'm personally going to go with 8th Co Reinforcements if/when I buy and add more Assault Squads to my army. It's very fluffy and gives me the opportunity to paint different Co markings. That's not going to help you though, if you wish to keep it in the 4th. :) One solution might be leaving their helmets red indicating Tactical status. Since all Blood Angels master both the Jump Pack and hand-to-hand fighting by heritage and endless drill (and our flaw), I don't think it would look odd at all to see Tacticals temporarily taking to the field in the Assault role. Perhaps not 100% fluffy, but I think a workable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Apock Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 How do I fit multiple assault squads in while sticking to my single company? As far as fluff goes you can't have more than 2 assault squads per battle company. It bothers me as well since our beloved Blood Angels are such an assault oriented chapter. I always kinda thought assault should also be the first two squads considering but alas, we are a codex adherent chapter so we follow the structure Guilliman laid down. I also am a stickler for painting along fluff lines so what I have done is to paint two assault squads for the company I field (5th company) and I plan on painting another squad and my assault bikes from the 8th or possibly another battle company. I plan on magnetizing the jump packs and backpacks to be able to switch them out as needed. You could create a successor chapter and design the company formation any way you desire though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurb Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Just don't. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeller Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Just don't. ;) This is the best advice available. Given the battle company build that is. A thought, run 2 squads with packs and 4 in rhinos. It would be like a tactical squad that took bp/ccw instead of packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpWalker Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Terrahawk - One solution might be leaving their helmets red indicating Tactical status. Since all Blood Angels master both the Jump Pack and hand-to-hand fighting by heritage and endless drill (and our flaw), I don't think it would look odd at all to see Tacticals temporarily taking to the field in the Assault role. Perhaps not 100% fluffy, but I think a workable solution. I feel Terrahawk is on the mark about this. I kinda got the impression from reading the codex most marines are given access to this piece of war gear and it wouldn't look odd to me at all to see a tactical squad donning jump packs depending on the battlefield/strategy circumstances. Uncommon yes, but not unfluffy. But that's just my opinion. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelus Mortifer Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 I'm a bit of a stickler for squad/company correctness when it comes to markings. The bulk of my army is 2nd Co so both my JP units have the yellow blood drop; de-bussed Asst Squads (Rhinos, RBs and Pods) come from the 3rd Company so I can incorporate non-crazy Tycho if needs be and not have the 3rd Company Cpt bizarrely on his own amongst the 2nd Company force. My Landspeeder support comes from the 5th Company (so black blood drop), and when I eventually get around to building them my bikes will be from the 4th. Whilst I can appreciate the Reserve Companies supplying additional man-power when needed, I prefer to have the army I use to comprise of all Battle Company troops in one form or other. That's just me though :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 How do I fit multiple assault squads in while sticking to my single company? I don't intent on highjacking your thread but to expand your question... If you can justify more than 2 assault squads in your company by using (according to fluff) tacticals with jump packs, do they retain their squad marking and/or their helmet colour? Food for thought. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Do Blood Angels even use Guilliman's Company Organization? They do diverge from his Codex on several other points. Using Tacticals with JPs has the added bonus of not needing to paint the chicken helmets. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Do Blood Angels even use Guilliman's Company Organization? Yes they do, at least according to every relevant bit of fluff published in the past 19 years. If you can justify more than 2 assault squads in your company by using (according to fluff) tacticals with jump packs,do they retain their squad marking and/or their helmet colour? I'm not a great fan of the idea myself but: theres never been a canon statement of it regarding Blood Angels, but with vanilla marines the reserve company tacticals retain their tactical markings when mounted on bikes/speeders so I would assume the same would apply to jump packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Apock Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 The subject of proper Squad and Company markings has always been something I have enjoyed discussing and researching I've made quite a few posts about it in the past even. This topic has again got me thinking about how I want to organize my strike force. Being that the new miniatures and codex have forced me to almost paint a whole new army I have spent some time mulling over what my plans are. In the SM:Codex (pg. 16) it states that the 6th Tactical Reserve Company is trained in the use of bikes and the entire company may be deployed as bike squadrons and the 7th Tactical Reserve Company is trained to fight with Land Speeders and the company commonly acts as a light vehicle formation. In addition to this information the 8th Reserve Assault Company is trained in the use of jump packs, bikes, and land speeders as well. Being that the Blood Angels are as codex adherent as the flaw allows I would think that we would keep with the codex dictated structure of training in the 6th and 7th reserve companies. I'm going to post another topic asking what other players think about this organization. Personally, with us being so focused on hand-to-hand combat and assaulting I feel like an individual marine in our chapter would consider obtaining the yellow helmet a personal goal perhaps. Something akin to a status symbol. Barring induction into the first company, I think perhaps induction into one of the assault squads would be where every marine wants to be especially considering the connection to aerial combat and the Primarch. That being said I am lead to believe that once a marine finally gets to don the yellow helmet relinquishing it would be difficult indeed. Anyway, it may be all speculation but that's my take on it. All rambling aside, I think the only way to stay fluffy and avoid painting the yellow helmet would be to field bikes or land speeders from the 6th or 7th. It's my impression that the 8th Company all have yellow helmets no matter what their assignment may be. All that being said and keeping in mind that GW themselves have a reputation of contradicting fluff and known cannon on occasion I have never once seen a GW issued picture of a Blood Angel bike or land speeder piloted by anything other than a yellow helmeted assault marine and the same goes for jump pack equipped marines. Personally I don't feel like tactical marines would be equipped with jump packs but that's just me. When its all said and done it's your army and your miniatures so do what you want to do and what makes you happy. What do you all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkio Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I'm pretty sure it states in this new book that initiates are given a jumpack bolter, bolt pistol and chainsword at the ppint of induction and are called on to serve the tactical role that the commander deems appropriate. IE "tac" marines donning JP's and taking up the holy chainsword and bolt pistol to purge the enemies of the imperium as often as they are called upon to hoist the righteous bolter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 what I have done is to paint two assault squads for the company I field (5th company) and I plan on painting another squad and my assault bikes (I assume you mean attack bikes?) from the 8th or possibly another battle company. I've always felt that since the 6th is trained to use bikes, all bikers should be drawn from tactical companies. Likewise, as the 7th is trained on land speeders, these should also be drawn from the tactical squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Apock Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I'm pretty sure it states in this new book that initiates are given a jumpack bolter, bolt pistol and chainsword at the ppint of induction and are called on to serve the tactical role that the commander deems appropriate. IE "tac" marines donning JP's and taking up the holy chainsword and bolt pistol to purge the enemies of the imperium as often as they are called upon to hoist the righteous bolter I've never seen that one, I'd love to read it, if you recall or find where that is would you mind posting a page number? From what I've read it says new recruits go into the scout company to refine their combat skills with the shotgun, bolter and combat blade. As time passes they learn the sniper rifle, missile launcher, and heavy bolter. Once the scout has proven himself they are reassigned to a bike squad. It also says under the Assault squad entry that "Most Blood Angels graduate to service in an Assault Squad once their training as a scout is complete" what I have done is to paint two assault squads for the company I field (5th company) and I plan on painting another squad and my assault bikes (I assume you mean attack bikes?) from the 8th or possibly another battle company. I've always felt that since the 6th is trained to use bikes, all bikers should be drawn from tactical companies. Likewise, as the 7th is trained on land speeders, these should also be drawn from the tactical squads. Yes, you assumed correctly. I was referring to Attack Bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igotsmeakabob!! Posted September 21, 2010 Share Posted September 21, 2010 I'd say just pull them from another company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitra Posted September 21, 2010 Author Share Posted September 21, 2010 Much as it pains me to do so, I think I'll end up painting the 'extra' squads as part of the 8th. Part of me likes the idea of painting some squads, particularly the foot-sloggers in rhinos, as repurposed tactical marines, but I think I wouldn't like the end result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Apock Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 Much as it pains me to do so, I think I'll end up painting the 'extra' squads as part of the 8th. Part of me likes the idea of painting some squads, particularly the foot-sloggers in rhinos, as repurposed tactical marines, but I think I wouldn't like the end result. I feel your pain brother, I've spent a ton of time mapping out company and squad markings. I personally cant stand the squad markings for our assault squads. As for the company marking thing, the codex says that most Blood Angel strike forces are composed of multiple companies, so if you wanted to include Assault Troops from other battle companies rather than paint those double green 8th company blood drops you could include a squad or two from say, the 2nd and paint any bikers from the 6th or Land Speeders from the 7th. How many Assault Squads are you intending to include? Are you using any Vanguard Vets or Honor Guard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lorider2 Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 Quick question - does the fluff say that a "squad" is strictly ten marines? If not, two squads could easily by 25-30 guys and thus making the 5-6 razor squads popular with many players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Apock Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 Quick question - does the fluff say that a "squad" is strictly ten marines? If not, two squads could easily by 25-30 guys and thus making the 5-6 razor squads popular with many players. I'm fairly sure that both fluff and rules both put a squad at strictly 10 marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parcival Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 While the Blood Angels are a Codex adherent Chapter, I violate the Codex on purpose. I do the 2nd company. The first four Tactical squads are normally painted according to the Codex. Squads five and six are where I deviate from the Codex; they have the fifth's and sixth's kneepad marking, but otherwise they look like an Assault Squad. The seventh and eight squad are painted according to the Codex again. I may violate the Codex, but I don't really care. Since Blood Angels are so well trained in assaults, it absolutely makes sense that the marines in the Tactical Squads are skilled for either role as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zynk Kaladin Posted September 22, 2010 Share Posted September 22, 2010 The "combined forces" idea really works well. Space marines generally fight as a "scalpel" force rather than a "hammer", and as such are prepared to use the precise tools to get the job done. If the combat situation requires mass assault marines, then 2 companies may join in a campaign and use their forces accordingly, or in rare situations when needed, I couldn't see why not tactical marines may become assault marines. Oh, and go Caps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Paen Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 I just run the 8th Co. Im making the full company eventually. I pull the jump packs off some squads and mount them in Stormravens and Landraiders, nothing says" assault" and" Lord of skyfall" like that to me. With our Infernus engines even assault squds in Rhinos seem fluffy to me (though not as strict as some would like). Aside from my loadout, it seems that the other companies would be prone to mixing squads from other co.s as a simple Task Organization arrangement." You may not belong to the Company but you belong to the Chapter and today you"ll be fighting here..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpWalker Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Brother Paen- " You may not belong to the Company but you belong to the Chapter and today you"ll be fighting here..." From a marine's point of view. They would be happy only to serve in some fashion. Adding marines from another company or adding jump packs to tactical marines is kosher to me. To paint a yellow head or not to paint a yellow head is the question. ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaleOpener Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 I wouldn't worry about them at all. The Emperor knows how many Space Marine squad are laying around in my basement, cause I don't use them anymore. Hehe. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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