Goin up against blood angels

[robertlee]

got a game comin up against blood angels, what units would be best? it should be a 1500 pt game but we both have a lot of pieces so it could get bigger.

[Ulriks Minion]

Well I dunno what to do but they are lethal in close combat more lethal than a space wolf with a barrel of ale under his belt :)

[kitsune106]

that depends. what are you trying to do?

 

i would say try to get hte drop on them. charge when you can. if they can't charge you, they don't get the extra attacks. the blood priest elites will be hard, as they will make the squads with have feel no pain, and he can have up to three of them for an elite choice, and i believe they are ICs so can join squads.

 

they can have honor guards, while we can't, but we get more HQ choices. is he fieldng a libriaian? if so, a rune priest with the runic staff might be a good idea to counter his pyshic spells.

[Ryan814]

My only experience with Blood Angels was as Chaos, I found that plasma weapons were worth there weight in gold, the abundance of power armoured infantry who in most cases tool them selves up for close combat fall quickly to rapid fire plasma guns. Inevitably in order to assault you he will have to leave cover and thats when you want to pounce on him. Counter Attack should help you out a little in the CC that is bound to happen.

 

If you can match him with a Grey Hunter for all his assault squads instead of alpha striking a squad to death try to whittle it down until it poses little threat in an assault so that your counter attacking wolves can smash him.

 

Also make sure you have a plan to deal with Baal Preds, Make sure you can deal with more than one of these at a time, in every possible scenario you can imagine they are devastating and they can move like the wind. I cannot say it enough, these have to die fast (or immobilized far away from anything important or lose that cannon).

 

Also beware units that can assault as they arrive or as they dismount.

 

After you deploy just assess the threat his units pose assuming an 18inch threat range on an assault squad and 24 inch on those Baal's ( did i mention that the Baals will really really mess you up).

 

To sum it up make sure you keep in mind dealing with rock hard assault units like Sanguinary Guard and Death company (who it should be noted are relentless). Assault marines are tough but noting special really. Look out for Baal preds and land raiders who can deliver elite assault troops into your face. I think the focus should be on making his units ( who aren't that much better than you in assault) get smaller before they hit you so that when they do, you crush them and use your massacre move to organize your troops into a smiley face just to hammer home the point that his overly assault focused codex gets smashed by people who prepare for all dimensions of the battlefield.

[Zid]

Simple:

 

-T-wolf calvary if you have them

- Plasma cannons, Vindicators

- Meltas are always a plus

- Rune Priests rock

- Lots o' armor

 

Depends really on his list, what type of army does he play?

[LPetersson]

In my experience, 3 squads of Long Fangs with missile launchers and, if possible, a Wolf Guard in each squad + Rune Priest with the Tempest's Wrath is pretty much an 'I Win' button against our noble brothers in red.

And by Russ, it's damn effective against both traitorous legions and our other loyalist brothers.

 

I stopped playing that set up (The above plus 3 or 4 GH + some WG TDA) because it was just too easy to win and no longer fun...

[Requiem of the Wolf]

Plasma...lots and lots of plasma.

 

3 squads of greyhunters with dual plasma guns.

3 squads of long fangs with 3 ML/2 LC each

Rune priests with Murderous hurricane and Tempests Wrath. and dont neglect the choosers to prvent his baal preds from sneaking close.

[xxvaderxx]

Actually, they are not that tought. Their tactical are the same as nilla, same goes for assault quad. The death company is tougher, but they are expensive and if i remember correctly, they have some sort of compulsory movement. Their Termis are same as nilla as well, the guard get retros and 2+ armor, but they cost 40 points a wound with no invul save(treat them as termis with no invul and with retros).

All their units on a roll of a 6 at the start of the game, can get furious assault.

 

What you do need to watch out for are their toons and pseudo toons(apothecarys and such) they are IC and they do give some nasty bonuses(they are also terribly expensive).

 

As long as you are the one picking the fights you should have no problem.

[Leardinal]

I have been playing Ba recently, but am switching back to SW. As has been said, Plasma. FnP doesn't help when you can't use it. Don't let them get the charge, as that will most likely if spell death for whatever squad that gets hit if there is one of their priests near by. Their Higher I from Furious Charge is going to be a pain. The Priests are tough, (and actually not that expensive when you consider what you get from them,) but they are still IC's without multi wounds or inv saves, which means if you do get into close combat, through some PW attacks against the priest, there goes FnP. Mech lists are sort of popular: Razor Back spam with a 5 man RAS sitting inside coupled with AV 13 spam is just nasty, especially when all the rhino chassis based vehicles are fast and they will most likely be taking Librarians to cast shield on their armored line.

 

Hope this helps

[xxvaderxx]

If you want something nasty against them bring:

 

2*2-Thurnder Wolf Cav. One with Frost Fang and TS, the other with Thunder hammer and TS.(1 to heach model, not each unit with 4 upgrades)

 

Add to each A wolf lord, one with Fang and Shield+Warrior Born the other with Hammer and shield+Bear (so that you get a hammer and a fang on each unit). Give the lords 2 wolf to catch those Plasma shots.

 

This 2 units have an insane charge range, will go first with I 5, you get 6 I 5 S 6 power weapon attacks, Which will take out most of their nasty stuff, and then you get 6 more rendering, and 5 more at S 10. 11 of those attacks denny FNP and armor, are S 6+ and you still get the rendering ones.

[Orphus]

If your opponent takes a psyker you should consider taking a Rune Priest.

The chance to negate a power within '24 on a 4+ could come in handy.

Also Storm Caller is useful if you find yourself out in the open.

[robertlee]

Thanks for the advice will let you know how it goes

[CainTheHunter]

Thanks for the advice will let you know how it goes

 

Try not to loose Your Long Fangs to his Baal predators - You should really deploy as far away as You can and cover will not help You. Consider going second. Let him come to You and keep everything in armor - let him wash Your rhinos and razorbacks with flamers. On Your turn cast Tempest's Wraith, melta-gun his transports and deal with their contents. Scouts would not be actually great in this list, because he will rush forwards and they will struggle to catch him.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Try this: Space Wolves Grey

 

The fellas on there have routinely duffed over BA. You can see what they take and how they do it.

You will have to poke around somewhat though :P

[Valerian]

got a game comin up against blood angels, what units would be best? it should be a 1500 pt game but we both have a lot of pieces so it could get bigger.

 

Here is a Battle Report that I posted a while back from one of my games against Blood Angels. I think there are some pretty good lessons learned in there. Let me know if you have any questions.

 

 

EDIT: A couple highlights for you:

 

1. A Flamestorm Baal Predator can move a full 18" Full Out Scout Move prior to his first turn, then can move an additional 12" in his first turn, and use his 8" Template. From the spot of his deployment for this vehicle that equates to a 38" threat range with a Strength 6, AP 3 weapon that ignores Cover Saves. If you can't guarantee that you are outside of that range then you need to be in a vehicle where he can't touch you. If he doesn't deploy on the table, then he can Outflank with the Baal, which gives him a 20" threat range from either table edge when he comes on from Reserves. Consider yourself warned.

 

2. The power of the Blood Angels comes primarily from their Furious Charge. Some will get it automatically by failing/passing their 'Black Rage' roll at the beginning of the game. Everybody else will get it by having a model in their unit within 6" of a Sanguinary Priest. If you can deny them the charge then that takes away their most significant advantage. Fortunately for you, you can pretty easily take away their charge by including one or more of the following:

 

a. A Land Raider - It is an Assault vehicle with a 20" threat range for your guys on board. It makes a 12" Move, you Disembark 2", Shoot, then Charge 6".

 

b. Swift Claws Bikers - 18" Threat range with Relentless, allowing you to blast his unit with your Twin-linked Bolters, Flamer, and Heavy Bolter (definitely add the Attack Bike!) before you charge.

 

c. Sky Claws - 18" Threat range with a pile of airborne Blood Claws looking for a fight! Add a Wolf Priest with Preferred Enemy versus Jump Infantry to ensure optimal killyness.

 

d. Lone Wolf - he's got crap for Mobility (7-12" including the Run move), but just get him between incoming Blood Angels units and the rest of your army. He is the perfect interdiction force, and might even manage to kill off one of their Independent Characters (go for the Sanguinary Priest, if you can!). Importantly, he is cheap enough to throw away, might do some damage, but definitely disrupts the enemies' synchronized attack.

 

In addition to the above units that will remove his Furious Charge advantage, the following are very helpful:

 

a. Rune Priest with Tempests Wrath plus whatever. Tempests Wrath really screws with Jump Infantry. Force him to take enought Difficult and Dangerous terrain tests and he'll start losing guys left and right. There is no Armour Save to avoid it, so if one of his Sanguinary Priests lose a Wound to failed DT test, then he'll cry real tears. Additionally, your Rune Priest will be exceptionally helpful in shutting down his Psychic Powers. If he brings Mephiston, then you definitely want to shut down his powers to remove his extra movement and nasty, nasty, close combat boons.

 

b. Long Fangs are always good to bring regardless of who you fight.

 

c. Plasma guns, Plasma Cannon, anything that takes away their FnP until you can remove those annoying Sanguinary Priests.

 

 

Valerian

[Requiem of the Wolf]

And something else that I recently worked up. mostly for dealing with pesky Mephiston and other nastiness.

 

a Drop pod with 7 Wolf guard in it. all have a combi melta and a combi plasma. You drop it behind,next to or on top of whatever unit he has that would hurt him the most to lose. If its armor,then 7 melta shots stands a very good chance of destroying it. If its troops,then 14 plasma shots will do absolute wonders. This unit is basically,a cheap way to deny your opponent something he based his army around.

 

Mephiston hiding behind a Dreadnaught? Drop the wolf guard behind,and blast his butt off with plasma.

Commisar sitting with his command squad? Give em a taste of plasma.

Ragnar,Wolf Priest and 14 Blood Claws in a Land Raider crusader? Drop some melta from right on top,and watch his guys get whittled as they walk across the field.

Squad of Leman Russ Battletanks? Hey look,drop on top,give them some hot melta love.

Tervigon crapping out Gaunt swarms? Drop down and feed it a plasma laxative.

 

You find the model that your opponent will cry tears of blood when they see it tossed into a woodchipper,and then you drop your guys onto them and watch them treat it like a pinata.

 

All told..its 200 or so points. And its the absolute death of a squad,or the almost assured destruction of a vehicle. So not only will you almost certainly get your point value worth,your army is based on not having those 200 points...and his army is.

[Wysten]

Tutoring for a list is a general bad idea. A solid wolf list should be able to provide answers.

 

In this case, your meltaguns, if they are not shooting Baals, can be used to get a good hit on the Blood Angels. Stuff like Wolf Banner or/and mark of wolven can be a good equaliser. Long Fangs with missles can one hit kill them if they do hit, but direct them towards any Baals he does have first. Thunderwolf will get the charge on them and so fourth. Basically, make sure to fight him on your terms rather then your own.

 

Just be weary of Vangaurd and Sanguards. While they are small units, they are elite and will quite possibly tear a squad apart, or at least tie them up in the case of the Vanguard while the Assualt squads get in range. If your expecting a full deepstrike, keep your boys together, though spreading the long fangs out a little may tempt him to spilt up to attack them.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

You can always bring a Rhino for your Fangs and then pop the Lone Wolf + FenWolves onboard and ride, ride, ride.

[Tyleesa]

How can we fight Stormraven gunships? Two of them?

 

A friend of mine plays two gunships with a death company and Lemartes in one of then and Mephiston and death company dreadnought in the second. 2 games out of three, it means at least 2 of my key units are tied up in close combat turn 1 with almost no chances of winning it.

[slmellon]

As others have said...Long Fangs. 1 w 5xML 1 w 3ML/2PC 1 w 3ML/LC. My buddy mixed 2 RPs with these guys against me and waited for me to come across the board, i had nothing left when i got there...All I know is i am rebuilding my list to look more like this.

[Thunderhawk3015]

How can we fight Stormraven gunships? Two of them?

 

A friend of mine plays two gunships with a death company and Lemartes in one of then and Mephiston and death company dreadnought in the second. 2 games out of three, it means at least 2 of my key units are tied up in close combat turn 1 with almost no chances of winning it.

 

One pack of Long Fangs. Put out a unit to absorb their initial assault then counter-attack with your freight train units while you blast the other Stormraven off the board.

 

Or, make sure your units are not getting inside the 18 inch(assumption is they are a fast vehicle, don't have the BW dex on me) envelope of the Stormravens movement where units in there can assault. Wait untill you pop the Stormravens, then lead the Death Company around by the nose shooting him with instant death and ap2 weaponry. If he goes flat out 24 inches then concentrate fire on one of the Stormravens then assault his units after you blow it up. When not on the charge Death Company are nowhere near as nasty.

[jeremy1391]

Ok here is what you need

Grey hunters on foot (because he will come to you) armed with two plasma guns and a plasma pistol and an attached wolf guard with a combi plasma, it will negate the blood angels feel no pain that is granted by their priests!!!!

 

Long fangs and a crap ton of missile launchers

 

And fill in the rest.

[Prot]

In my experience, 3 squads of Long Fangs with missile launchers and, if possible, a Wolf Guard in each squad + Rune Priest with the Tempest's Wrath is pretty much an 'I Win' button against our noble brothers in red.

And by Russ, it's damn effective against both traitorous legions and our other loyalist brothers.

 

I stopped playing that set up (The above plus 3 or 4 GH + some WG TDA) because it was just too easy to win and no longer fun...

 

Really? You've never had a BA player roll up a Baal Pred from flank and roast your Long fangs in one shot? Happens to me... You can run but you can't hide from BA. They're simply too fast.

 

I've never used the Tempest's Wrath, but I have used Hurricane to slow jetpacks... doesn't work, and I haven't managed to get much of a kill count from it.

 

Back on topic.....

 

I remember reading a Space Wolves blog that declared they thought they could fight man to man against Blood Angels, and I really doubted that claim. Since then I have to suggest it just isn't a reality unless you play those large exploitable TWC armies.

 

IMHO, we shoot pretty darn good. And our Rune priests are fairly defensive oriented. I find I do best against BA when I have a 50/50 army going of shooty units and assault units.

 

I really think going pure HTH is suicide. You just can't beat all the extra rules they get. Just my 2 cents, but I typically play some of the most abusive BA lists you can imagine, and I also play against BA lists that are somewhat... tame. In either event, I think we are a step or two behind in the close combat department... Your experience might be different, but I find adding that shooting element seems to help me anyway.

[Wysten]

Indeed, ideally, a large part of your gameplay vs BA is ensuring that they don't get the charge on you. If you charge them, their San Priest is forced to the front of the unit and can be crushed by power fist or a lot of attacks. Wolf who go for more flexable arrangements (don't tutor, and tend to play on the foes weakness's) often need that flexablity to pick their engagements.

 

Typically a really fast unit that can engage them on the defensive is really helpful, Fen Wolves, Thunder Wolf, Skyclaws, Iron Priests (No, don't snigger, give him a few cyber wolf and a Thunderwolf and allot your wounds to them and he ends up as a wolf lord with a lot of extra attacks. Now that I think about it he's probably better then just having a lone wolf lord padding around, since no urgent need to take down a sang priest considering his hammer can crush anything else.) A lone wolf lord/Caius and Swift claws,all offer that option catch them in a sore spot. Once they lose the priest, they lose a lot of what makes them better then Grey Hunters and will probably get dragged down in combat.

 

With Long Fangs and some decent firepower and a strong tactican at the helm, it's fully possible to beat them at assualt. Either by forcing them to weather barrage after barrage of fire or advance into grounds that may not be as favourable. Just obivously they are going to try their damnest to get to you. XD

[Requiem of the Wolf]

A squad of Fen Wolves providing cover and charge interference to prevent them from charging your long fangs for instance. And Tempest's wrath will do all the scaryness that murderous hurricane does to their jump troops,without having to get close to them to cast it. IT works as a great deterrent. He will almost certainly deploy far enough away to try and avoid it.