Librarians... to go Epistolary or not?

[igotsmeakabob!!]

So typically one can take a player-turn power or either-turn power (Blood Lance or Unleash Rage respectively) and Shield of Sanguinius for an opponent's turn power.

 

However, is it worth investing a power armor Librarian with Epistolary, giving him a shooting and a close combat power?

I feel that if one starts trying to make a combat powerhouse you're just going to end up with a version of Mephiston who costs a fair bit and isn't nearly as points-efficient.

 

What if you stick a Librarian in Terminator armor? What if you then give him a storm shield?

Is he worth the Epistolary upgrade now? There's little point to the Shield of Sanguinius power if he's with a tactical Terminator squad (all those 5+ invulns anyway). What powers fit him best? Is he NOW worth two close combat powers?

 

 

I'm making a terminator Librarian with a Storm Shield out of Space Hulk's Calistarius and plan on sticking him with my 5-man Terminator squad (two CF's, one CML). Unleash Rage is an obvious choice, and giving him something like Blood Lance wouldn't necessarily mean he needs Epistolary. But would it be worth the upgrade?

[Redo]

Personally I think that it is a little too expensive to give a powered armoured Librarian the Epistolary upgrade. With, I presume a jump pack he costs a lot of points. Not as much as Memphiston but has far less staying power, psychic out put and close combat prowess. I also think that the lack of a invul. save really limit this option with an W2, I4 character.

 

On the other hand if a Librarian has terminator armour I nearly always think that it is worth going the extra mileage for the storm shield. Once again I think the upgrade to Epistolary is far too much...puts him once again in the league of Memphiston.

 

You make an interesting point about the powers a terminator equipped Libby should take. I still think that shield is still viable. Put the Libby and his termie friends in a Landraider and that 6" of shield is rather large and cann protect a tank and a unit or two on the advance. I think this would also be applicable for a stormraven too.

[JamesI]

I'm going to agree with Redo. Episoltary is really expensive, and the stats of a librarian aren't that great to begin with.

 

If I wanted an Episoltary, he would be in terminator armor with the storm shield, and probably sword of sanguinius and might of heroes to maximize high strength hits.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

I agree with these lads... too expensive. Chances are, most of the time you will really only get one opportunity to assault, sometimes twice if you are lucky / smart. So for most of the game you are still only using one power regardless.

 

And keeping in mind that you have to assault what you shoot at... sniping a few tanks with blood lance is nice but when a 200+ point squad of angry lightning claws sits there with nothing to assault, I'd say it's a waste.

[Brother_Dan'l]

I'm not a fan of the Epistolary upgrade unless it's on a jump pack Librarian. With any other version you probably won't use both powers in a single game turn more than once unless you take Shield of Sanguinius and The Blood Lance. But with a jumper you can probably get into 2 or even 3 combats and that's when having Unleash Rage and Sanguine Sword or Might of Heroes could come in real handy. Not that I don't think it makes him too damned expensive, because I certainly do. But it's the only time I might consider it.

 

I'm finding that the only power that really matters is Unleash Rage. If that goes off it really doesn't matter what other power you might have used since the unit the Librarian is attached to will already have something that does the same job for less than 50 points.

 

Now if we could get it Furioso Librarians... :devil:

[Hiro_Protagonist]

If you can't use 2 powers a turn then you can't use your force weapon on a turn that you use another power. May not be a big thing depending on your opponents, just something to consider.

[Lucumon]

If you can't use 2 powers a turn...

 

Isnt this a player turn? So you can cast shield during his shooting phase and wings of sanguinius during yours, for example.

 

Still, for how awesome Mephiston is... why?

[Hiro_Protagonist]

If you can't use 2 powers a turn...

 

Isnt this a player turn? So you can cast shield during his shooting phase and wings of sanguinius during yours, for example.

 

Still, for how awesome Mephiston is... why?

 

That's right. My point is that if you can't use two powers a turn you couldn't cast wings and use your force weapon on your turn (for example).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I concur with Brother Dan'l. An Epistolary with a jump pack and Sanguine Sword attached to a choppy Honor Guard is the business. I am planning to try this unit out soon. It's got everything you want for an assault unit:

 

Furious Charge & Feel No Pain

Preferred Enemy all the time (versus Litanies of Hate)

+1 attack if you take the banner in the Honor Guard

 

The S10 attacks ignore armor saves at I5 and WS5 can kill walkers, monstrous creatures and high armor with ease. The Honor Guard is there for more attacks in close combat, which is mainly the sole purpose for this unit. Yeah the Epistolary is expensive but kitted as such and running with the Honor Guard is just brutal.

 

I also think an Epistolary in terminator armor and a stormshield joined to a unit of assault terminators with a priest in tow is another great unit... Well worth the extra points for the upgrade to Epistolary. I think if this upgrade had granted a third wound it would be taken more often.

 

0b :)

[Crynn]

Never ever pay for an Epistolary upgrade. 50 points is way too much considering we have shield as a power in the opponents turn effectively giving you an Epistolary without the points cost. Also by RAW Sang sword is a once cast so you can use both that and unleash rage at the same time with a normal librarian. 2 of our best powers you don't need to be an Epistolary to use as well as another power. Absolute waste of 50 points

 

Regards

 

Crynn.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Also by RAW Sang sword is a once cast so you can use both that and unleash rage at the same time with a normal librarian.

Expound upon this, if you wouldn't mind.

[vahouth]

Also by RAW Sang sword is a once cast so you can use both that and unleash rage at the same time with a normal librarian.

Expound upon this, if you wouldn't mind.

 

I think he means that once cast,Sanguine Sword is always on (by RAW) since it has no duration limit.

 

But I wouldn't play it that way myself... it seems SO wrong.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

here's what i'm doing, TDA epistolary w/ storm shield, using might of heroes and the sanguine sword in a squad of assault termies (if my math is right, after using MoH that unit gets 24 attacks in CC minimum!! :) )

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

If you can't use 2 powers a turn...

 

Isnt this a player turn? So you can cast shield during his shooting phase and wings of sanguinius during yours, for example.

 

Still, for how awesome Mephiston is... why?

 

That's right. My point is that if you can't use two powers a turn you couldn't cast wings and use your force weapon on your turn (for example).

force weapon can still be used...it's not a psychic power per se.

[JamesI]

If you can't use 2 powers a turn...

 

Isnt this a player turn? So you can cast shield during his shooting phase and wings of sanguinius during yours, for example.

 

Still, for how awesome Mephiston is... why?

 

That's right. My point is that if you can't use two powers a turn you couldn't cast wings and use your force weapon on your turn (for example).

force weapon can still be used...it's not a psychic power per se.

the instant death part of the force weapon can't be used the same turn as another power except by Episoltaries

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

If you can't use 2 powers a turn...

 

Isnt this a player turn? So you can cast shield during his shooting phase and wings of sanguinius during yours, for example.

 

Still, for how awesome Mephiston is... why?

 

That's right. My point is that if you can't use two powers a turn you couldn't cast wings and use your force weapon on your turn (for example).

force weapon can still be used...it's not a psychic power per se.

the instant death part of the force weapon can't be used the same turn as another power except by Episoltaries

where does it say that?

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Check Force Weapon under the BRB. I think it states in there that using the Instant Death part of it counts as a psychic power.

Also... does anyone else play the Sanguine Sword by RAW? Have I been handicapping myself or is this not as the rules intended?

[Hiro_Protagonist]

BRB pg. 50, under Force weapons "...normal rules for psychic powers apply (remember that a psycher may normally use only one power per turn)."

[Brother_Dan'l]

Check Force Weapon under the BRB. I think it states in there that using the Instant Death part of it counts as a psychic power.

Also... does anyone else play the Sanguine Sword by RAW? Have I been handicapping myself or is this not as the rules intended?

I doubt anyone has done more than look at the lack of duration in the description and scoff at GW's lack of editing skill. I've not even heard of anyone trying to claim they can "activate" it on turn 1 and use it for the rest of the game.

[Crynn]

Also by RAW Sang sword is a once cast so you can use both that and unleash rage at the same time with a normal librarian.

Expound upon this, if you wouldn't mind.

 

I think he means that once cast, Sanguine Sword is always on (by RAW) since it has no duration limit.

 

But I wouldn't play it that way myself... it seems SO wrong.

 

Yeap thats what I mean.

 

I generally play everything by RAW because it avoids arguements. Everyone has their own opinions on rules and what they think is meant but with RAW there is none of that, it is the most fair way.

 

It seems like an odd mistake for GW to make in sang sword considering there are two other CC powers that all have their durations clearly listed right above sang sword. Both are also worded to last a different amount of time, one is a turn, and one is for a single assault phase, both very different. So what do we argue that sang sword should be a whole turn or player turn then? It gets to a point where if your happy to settle with your opponent on a rule then fine but in a tourny when I face someone who has vendettas ill play by the straight rules. How do I know GW didnt just miss hit the 3 button instead of the 6 on the num pad making a vedetta 160 points instead of 130? You don't know what they mean only what they wrote. They could have FAQed it. I even sent them an email asking about it and clarifacation but they didn't. So untill they do, when I play eldar Meph is just casting that power once and then its done.

 

I understand that this play style isn't for everyone but I'm sure wound allocation wasn't meant to be taken advantage of like it is but we have to deal with that for nob/bikers and thundercav, daemons you get the picture. Another example that Morticon brilliantly pointed out is unleash rage means you can re-roll all to hit dice! That means ones that actually hit as well, in essense you can help yourself be less accurate and kill less, doing this means someone like Meph can stay in combat with something like guardsmen when he charges and not break them in his turn so he doesnt get shot in the imp guard players turn cause he would normally wipe the squad.

 

Play how you like but if your playing a tough opponent I would use sang sword the way it is written. They can whinge all they like but the only unfair part about it is they are expecting you to not play by the rules to advantage themselves. GW could have fixed this they made the choice not to. You do what you like.

 

Regards

 

Crynn

[Emperors Immortals]

ive played sword as cast once too, and thats because theres no FAQ and all the other powers are clearly marked withthe duration of effect.

 

Not had any complaints yet from red shirts.