Assault vs. Tactical

[Erasmus of Baal]

I have seen it claimed multiple times that there is no reason to take a Tactical Squad within the BA codex. Could someone please explain to me why this is true?

[chaplain belisarius]

they are more expensive and less useful seems to be the general idea i think...hope this helped! :lol:

[JamesI]

Mainly because an assault squad has a few advantages:

 

1) If using a transport an assault squad is usually cheaper than a similar sized tac squad.

 

2) Assault squads can get special weapons at 5 men, and 10 men get 2 special weapons. This is especially useful if you want a squad with an IC in a rhino. A 8-9 man tac squad has access to no meltas or flamers, while the assault squad has a melta or flamer and could add an infernus/hand flamer as well.

 

3) Assault squads are more specialized, the extra weapon, ability to get 2 meltaguns/flamers, ability to get melta/flame pistols on the sergeants.

 

4) Jump Packs!

 

This is not to say Tac squads are useless, these are the reasons I favor Assault squads over tacs.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

While I don't believe that Tactical Squads are pointless, I find myself more often than not leaving them out of my lists. This is mostly to make the most out of Furious Charge... and the assault squads also have cheaper transports AND can carry a special weapon with less than 10 members.

[Black_Sky]

It all depends on their application.

 

A tactical squad is far better at holding an objective than assault squads, while the assault squad is much more effective at engaging the enemy close up.

 

I use both types in my current list.

[noodle-j]

I almost always take a single tactical squad to a battle, they're just so versatile and useful.

 

They fulfil any role (maybe not brilliantly) and they're always there to support your list.

 

Obviously they're not the powerhouses of the army but they always make crucial contributions to the game. Also they are our best objective sitters.

 

Basically what i'm saying is (besides killing them) there's no real way of taking a tactical squad out of the game and that's why i love them ;)

[Gumo9]

I only really use tactical squads to hold objectives, although I tend to use devastators more and more for this lately.

 

G

[JamesI]

I only really use tactical squads to hold objectives, although I tend to use devastators more and more for this lately.

 

G

if Devastators were scoring, they would be a great unit.

[Chairman_woo]

I only really use tactical squads to hold objectives, although I tend to use devastators more and more for this lately.

 

G

if Devastators were scoring, they would be a great unit.

 

I like to throw in some sniper scouts with them, claims the objective and adds some more long range firepower for 75-100pts <_<

[Israfel]

I concur with the scout application. It seems more more and more feasible to me to add a cheap scout squad who will linger in the back for holding home objectives rather than a fully fledged tactical. I'm still playtesting though, the scouts seriously lack the staying power...

[I am Legion]

I went over this on my own as well when the new codex came out, but the one thing tacticals have are cheap lascannons.Dont even give them a rhino. sit on your objective in cover the whole game, and make sure u place you objective in an area that gives you good line of sight to the enemy. Tacticals arnt useless, they simply don't fit in my lists.... :P

[Natanael]

I'd say that you could get some good out of a tactical combat-squadding, leaving the HW at the objective while the rest (including Spec Wpn and Sarge with Combi+Fist) goes up the field with your assault elements. I'm starting a pre-heresy world eaters force, using the BA-codex, and that is how I will use mine.

 

- Natanael

 

+++edit+++

 

in a rhino, that is...

[the jeske]

I'd say that you could get some good out of a tactical combat-squadding, leaving the HW at the objective while the rest (including Spec Wpn and Sarge with Combi+Fist) goes up the field with your assault elements

ok against what. agains orks or nids they get boged downed . csm and sw will kill them not only because of bigger number of attacks , but also because they run their squads at 7-10 man size. agains eldar a 5 man meq unit should never be alive to reach hth. So against what army does the 5 man combat squad work. even if you go 5 tac + priest in a razor its still better to take a 5 man ras and have more attacks[not that its a good idea to charge stuff with 6 unsupported even when they have FnP].

 

tacs are not useless [not that they are good] , but they do requier a proper build . maybe in razor spams [as camper] or in armies like mort runs[but an army with singles requiers a lot of practice and skill to be played.] , but when someone thinks about building a simple mecha rush [lr or not] RAS are the better option.

[breng77]

So against what army does the 5 man combat squad work

 

Wait I know this one.... What is the Tau?

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That said, one SM could probably beat Tau in CC so....point taken. I fully agree that tactical squads are some what out of place in a BA army. If you are running a lot of tactical squads, you might want to look into Codex marines as their combat tactics (though special characters) probably make them slightly better.

[Leardinal]

Don't think of the 5 man tactical squad on its own, think of it as a support unit. 4 Rapid fire bolters and a special weapon can still hurt things, and while it won't preform as a bigger squad, it can soften up targets for RAS to take less casualties, while the cheap las cannon sits back and snipes.

[breng77]

The problem with a 5 man tactical squad is that I have to buy a 10 man squad to get that special weapon. Also the Cheap lascannon is not that cheap when you consider the 4 generally useless guys sitting around with it. (they are not often in range). I would almost always go with a 5 man Assault squad in an Razorback, which gives you the special weapon and a cheaper heavy weapon, which can move and shoot. Though this heavy weapon is arguably less durable, It saves points for every unit.

[lunchb0x]

I typically run 1 10man tactical squad, armed with anti-troop setup or anti-armour...depending on the points cost of the game.and always in a rhino.

 

If a small point game, I like to run them with anti-tank and rush forward pop smoke, then pop the hatch and blase away with melta guns/multi-meltas. If a larger point game, I use them as a shield unit for my assault troops...i run them with jump packs.

 

Take at least one squad be it 5 man or 10 man in a rhino or razorback...good for holding objectives and just to add some extra men on the field that have a bit better staying power by staying in their transports and lending that bolter fire. It may only be bolters, but they do cause wounds on about everything if given the chance.

 

Plus, I am 2nd edition with my army lists, so I love tactical squads. LOLOL

[tahrikmili]

I don't have even a single Assault Squad in any of my army lists so I can vouch that what the OP heard isn't 'correct'..

[breng77]

Well the OP is incorrect that there can be a reasons to run them. I would just say that it is generally considered sub-optimal, as the only advantages that a tactical squad has are Bolters, and possible heavy weapons. In every other way the assault squad is superior. They have more attacks, cheaper transports. Can take 2 assault weapons (or 1 in a 5 man squad). In a highly moble army having heavy weapons actually hurts the 10 man squad in my eyes due to the fact that you cannot move and fire.

[WarpWalker]

I'm afraid there isn't much I can really add here. I don't have a bunch of games under my belt with this latest Edition(5th).

But tacticals have always been the back bone of a marine army. Even highly mobile armies(I too have one) need an anchor.

Many times in the past my assault squads have failed to finish the fight they've started. Leaving the tacticals to pick up the slack.

 

I currently use my tactical squad as described above. Five with heavy weapon(las cannon or plasma cannon) sitting on an objective.

The other five playing...counter assault. :huh: I know, It sounds :wacko: . But twice(out of 5 games. :o ) it has worked

for me. They walk up the field after my two assault squads. Anything that gets through them is already weakened. Sgt. has a

power sword, and the special weapon is a flamer. I shoot 'em with bolt pistols, flame 'em then assault what is left. It's just another

reason why tacticals are so flexible.

 

 

J

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

As an exercise in tactics and general warfare I'd like to design an army around tactical squads and Devastators. There would be lots of Priests and some Chaplains as well. I've wanted to build a list that uses Captain Tycho with an Honor Guard. I think it could be a solid army with some thought. Basically go totally Astartes

[bloodancient]

I played one with out a Tac and lost my only objective I'll admit it was a tactical mistake that allowed it to happen but I felt it wouldn't have happened if Tac was there. I always put in at least one now always oh and watching them walk across the field tapping bolters is just plain old fun it's i'm thinking about going the same way as Black Orange with an extremely Tac heavy army at least once to see if they can push back the front line.

[grazer]

Played my third game with the 5E Codex (stupid life getting in the way of gaming!) and it was my first with a tactical. I ran a 10 man squad with Las/Plas and camped it on my objective. They held it against the greenskins and ended up being the only scoring objective in the game. From now on, I believe I'll keep one 10 man tactical squad in, mostly because I feel they are the mainstay of a marine army. I full well understand that RAS are often a better choice, though.

[tahrikmili]

As an exercise in tactics and general warfare I'd like to design an army around tactical squads and Devastators. There would be lots of Priests and some Chaplains as well. I've wanted to build a list that uses Captain Tycho with an Honor Guard. I think it could be a solid army with some thought. Basically go totally Astartes

 

So basically, this: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=211472 ?

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

I like 1 Tactical Squad to hold an objective simply because they have a 24 inch threat radius without having to move off the Objective they are holding. When you want to do this with a RAS you will find that they only way to make sure enemies don't shoot them to hell is by moving off the objective, so that is very counter productive. A Tactical squad with a Priest sitting on an objective really just sits there, stays there and holds the line.

 

They can't stand a full out assault, but that is what you have your highly mobile assault units for: Punishing anyone who dares attack your Tacticals.

 

My current Tactical setup is:

- Sergeant with PF

- Flamer

- Missile Launcher

- Razorback

 

Depending on the mission I either combat squad them and put the Sergeant with PF + Flamer in the Razorback so support my main assault while the 5 + Priest stay behind. Or I don't combat squad them and just let the Razorback play the fire support game. Also: Seeing I play footslogging DC, the Razorback can also be used to put the DC back into armor if their first transport got destroyed.

 

It's all about Tactical Flexibility and being able to respond to any kind of threat. And just spamming RAS simply doesn't do that.

 

I must admit though, I too am considering adding Scouts with Sniper Rifles for support instead of the Tacticals. Didn't get to it yet though ;-)