Tau rules...

[ShinyRhino]

Two questions about Tau rules.

 

#1 - Do drones lost as casualties count as models for the purpose of Morale/Pinning tests? For example, a pair of Tau Broadsides, each with a Shield Drone. The two drones are killed by hostile fire. Do the Broadsides take a Morale test for losses incurred in the shooting phase?

 

#2 - Flechette Dischargers. A unit charges a Tau vehicle equipped with Flechette Dischargers. Only two of the models in the unit make base-to-base contact, with two more "engaged" by being within 2" of the models in base-to-base. The flechettes hit the models attacking the vehicle before their attacks are resolved (per the Tau rules?), and the two models in base contact die. Do any models actually attack, since all of the based models died, or does it work like attacks against infantry, where all models who are eligible to attack declare their targets, and then get their attacks regardless of base-to-base contact when their initiativeis called?

[Grey Mage]

1) Yes, they are members of the unit in all ways.

 

2) Since you can take models from anywhere in the unit, I dont see how this is an issue- but theyd still be able to attack. Note that there is no I value on the flechette dischargers, so its already I4 when the attacks happen as it states to do them before the enemy attacks.

[ShinyRhino]

1) Yes, they are members of the unit in all ways.

 

2) Since you can take models from anywhere in the unit, I dont see how this is an issue- but theyd still be able to attack. Note that there is no I value on the flechette dischargers, so its already I4 when the attacks happen as it states to do them before the enemy attacks.

 

1) The Tau player I faced told us they weren't counted because "they're wargear." We wiped out the Broadsides anyways, butit was a curious anomaly.

 

2) As I understand it, the Flechette hits are determined "per model", and not against the whole unit. Anything hitting "per model" and "before their attacks are resolved" would indeed matter. If the modelw ith the powerfist is killed by flechettes on a "per model" basis, you can't remove a Marine with a bolter.

The tricky wording is "before their attacks are resolved." I wasn't sure if this meant at each initiative, you roll the flechette wounds and saves before the models throw grenades/swing fists, or if all of the models eligible to attack are wounded at some mystical I11 level or something.

[stinkenheim]

1) The drones may be wargear, but they are still part of the unit and so would be included when determining if the squad had taken enough casualties to force a morale check.

 

2) the wounds can be allocated to the unit though, like most wounds caused.

E.g Seth's special ability allows him to get an auto hit against any model in contact, but if said model is part of a unit the wounds are then allocated between groups.

[Grey Mage]

C:Tau, pg 37, inset box "Drones", paragraph 2.

 

Drones under the command of a drone controller are counted when assessing if the unit they are with should take a Morale check having taken 25% casualties. They are similarly counted when determining if the unit is strong enough to claim an objective. If their unit suffers losses, drones are counted when determining if it is below 50% for Victory Point purposes.

 

As for the discharger- in order to be struck, you have to be making the attack against it, and thus you cant be cut off since all attacks at a given I happen simultaneously. Now, because of the wording 'before resolving its attacks' it would appear to me that they get their attacks in wether or not they perish.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Stinkenheim:

Where does it say wargear with profiles counts for morale checks?

FenWolves do count for morale checks?

 

Drones do count for 25% casualties. It says so in the Drone section pg 31 C:TE

 

C:TE pg 30

 

"Flechette discharger:

Any model attacking the vehicle in close combat will be wounded on a d6 roll of a 4+, with Saves allowed, before resolving its attacks."

 

All four of your men get attacked by the Fd.

 

BBB pg 24

"For every model that fails it's save, the unit suffers an unsaved wound"

 

So you take the casualties from the back and you will still have those four guys [assuming you have four guys left] to attack the Piranhas.

 

It is not simultaneous. The Fd strike and if all your guys are dead then you don't get to strike.

You cannot resolve an attack if you are dead.

They wouldn't have needed to specify 'resolve before' if order wasn't important.

'before resolving its attacks' means if it survives, not, regardless of its living or not, when you combine it with the ordering 'before'

 

The models don't get sniped like JotWW. Your PF guy will only die from Wound Allocation.

[ShinyRhino]

Ah thanks a ton, everyone. That clears things up a lot.

 

Now, what is the difference in the wording of Flechettes versus the wording of Jaws that makes them perform differently?

[nurglez]

because jotw doesn't cause a wound, its a special ability that removes the model.

[Grey Mage]

because jotw doesn't cause a wound, its a special ability that removes the model.

Its also rolled off an initiative check, while the flechettes operate more like a poisoned weapon.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Stinkenheim:

Where does it say wargear with profiles counts for morale checks?

FenWolves do count for morale checks?

 

and then?

[Frosty the Pyro]

1) Yes, they are members of the unit in all ways.

 

2) Since you can take models from anywhere in the unit, I dont see how this is an issue- but theyd still be able to attack. Note that there is no I value on the flechette dischargers, so its already I4 when the attacks happen as it states to do them before the enemy attacks.

 

1) The Tau player I faced told us they weren't counted because "they're wargear." We wiped out the Broadsides anyways, butit was a curious anomaly.

They were wrong, The done rules even speciifly state that they count to causulties. Pg 37 of the Tau codex, second paragraph in the drone exert.

[stinkenheim]

@ Marshal- As the 'wargear' models have their own stat lines and can take up space in a transport as well as being able to be removed as casualties in place of other models I see no reason that they shouldn't be counted for morale purposes.

Unlike Ammo runts etc there is no mention in their rules hat they are ignored for anything like that, they are not merely counters but models that actively participate in the game.

I count Fenrisian Wolves as members of the unit too when i play.

 

Can you show me where it says wargear with statlines do not count towards morale in the BRB? Its an uncommon occurance as not many codex have such things.

I'm not sure whether you are saying you think they count or not. I would ask though, if you were in an assault and killed 3 wargear drones as well as 5 Fire Warriors would you say you had inflicted 5 or 8 wounds on hat unit? If 8 then surely you would also have to say that wounds caused on them from shooting would also impact the morale of the unit.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

It is one of those things that I never really looked into, and just thought it was a certain way.

I had thought wargear with a profile didn't, I guess partly because C:TE makes a point of saying that drones do.

 

I cannot actually find anything to say they shouldn't.

 

Morale pg 44 BBB

 

"A unit losing 25% or more of its models during a single phase must pass a Morale check at the end of that phase, or else it will fall back."

 

A Wolf Lord is a unit, and the FenWolves are models belong to him [a unit]. Makes sense. I just had thought wargear was exempt. I don't know why, maybe from heresay?!

 

Assault results were clearer to me.

 

pg 44 BBB

"Units take this Morale check suffer a -1 Ld modifier for each wound their side lost the combat by."

 

Multiple combat totals up the wounds suffered by each sides units.

 

So the 5&3 would be -8,

providing those ferocious Tau hadn't killed anyone :P