Fluff Discussion: The Sanguinor and the Sanguinary Guards

[jma037]

Hey guys,

 

I want to start a fluff discussion on the Sanguinor and the Sanguinary Guards.

Now, the SG thinks the Sanguinor is their old boss so they must venerate him in some way. Do you think the rest of the BA feel the same? It's mentioned that the chaplains knows when and where the Sanguinor showed up, do you think the rest of the BA think of him as a legend only? Also, where do you think the Sanguinor Guard fit in the BA? Are they above the priests and chaplains? Or are they just elite infantry?

 

Feel free to contribute.

 

Cheers!

[Cowl]

Hey,

 

Where does it say about the Chaplains knowing where the Sanguinor showed up? Do they mean his origins or just when he first appeared? If they do I wonder if all of them would or just the Reclusiarchs.

As for the SG I'd say they're just elite infantry. The chaplains and priests would honour them (since they are elite warriors) but wouldn't be outranked by them.

That's my two cents!

[jma037]

Where does it say about the Chaplains knowing where the Sanguinor showed up? Do they mean his origins or just when he first appeared? If they do I wonder if all of them would or just the Reclusiarchs.

 

I think it's mentioned in the codex that the reclusium keeps a record of the times that the Sanguinor shows up. Don't have it on me so can someone confirm?

[Jakobus]

I believe that the BA would probably believe him to be a sign of Sanguiniuses blessing and protection.

 

As for the Chaplains, I think it is more meant that they have records of when he has appeared so have a measure of proof, where as the regular Blood Angel Marine could easily do 300 odd years and not be in a situation dire enough for the Sanguinor to appear. So most likely would think him myth.

 

Now consider the fact that the Black Rage is usually accompanied with hallucinations and visions of the Battle for Terra and Sanguinious's final moments. You could easily put down visions of an avenging angel descending from the heavens and smiting the foes and the edge of the black rage hedging in on the minds of those BA’s in moments most dire.

 

I think the Sang Guard would be different to Sanguinary Priests and the Reclusiam. Honoured elite infantry bound by tradition and ceremony. I guess maybe if a Captain gets a promotion it could be to the Sang Guard.

[jma037]

Now consider the fact that the Black Rage is usually accompanied with hallucinations and visions of the Battle for Terra and Sanguinious's final moments. You could easily put down visions of an avenging angel descending from the heavens and smiting the foes and the edge of the black rage hedging in on the minds of those BA’s in moments most dire.

But how do you explain the actual damages that he does if he's just a vision?

 

 

I think the Sang Guard would be different to Sanguinary Priests and the Reclusiam. Honoured elite infantry bound by tradition and ceremony. I guess maybe if a Captain gets a promotion it could be to the Sang Guard.

 

It's the mortal-become-god bit that gets me. To me, that sounds like they live apart from the rest of the chapter and are almost like peers to Dante himself.

[Jakobus]

Now consider the fact that the Black Rage is usually accompanied with hallucinations and visions of the Battle for Terra and Sanguinious's final moments. You could easily put down visions of an avenging angel descending from the heavens and smiting the foes and the edge of the black rage hedging in on the minds of those BA’s in moments most dire.

But how do you explain the actual damages that he does if he's just a vision?

 

Sorry, what I was meaning to say was that the Blood Angel who witnessed it probably believe that the Sanguinor saved them. Where as or recounting this story someone else may believe that he mistook Brother Barry from the Assault squad jumping in and flipping out ripping stuff apart.

 

I think the Sang Guard would be different to Sanguinary Priests and the Reclusiam. Honoured elite infantry bound by tradition and ceremony. I guess maybe if a Captain gets a promotion it could be to the Sang Guard.

 

It's the mortal-become-god bit that gets me. To me, that sounds like they live apart from the rest of the chapter and are almost like peers to Dante himself.

 

Sure, I mean its not hard to believe that the Elite of the Elite of the Elite soldiers seperate themselves from your regular Tactical marine.

 

As to the peers of Dante and Promotion from captain I don't know. It just seems that they have to be promoted from somewhere maybe its a position you get offered at the equivilent level as a Captain. Either way they would definately have earned a decent heaping of respect

[Leonaides]

the sang guard aren't the next step up from captain. Lets just stop that idea right now. They are the elite killers, the most devout warriors, the most skilled fighters. But not necessarily the greatest tacticians, or the most inspiring leaders. They are more likely to be the elite of the veterans, entrusted with the honour of the chapter, skilled with blade enough to defeat any foe, strong-willed and experienced enough to stand where even other marines might fall back. They dont have to be the eldest, or senior ranks either. They are fighters, and their tactical ability is borne of experience, their respect from their position.

[Terrahawk]

the sang guard aren't the next step up from captain. Lets just stop that idea right now. They are the elite killers, the most devout warriors, the most skilled fighters. But not necessarily the greatest tacticians, or the most inspiring leaders. They are more likely to be the elite of the veterans, entrusted with the honour of the chapter, skilled with blade enough to defeat any foe, strong-willed and experienced enough to stand where even other marines might fall back. They dont have to be the eldest, or senior ranks either. They are fighters, and their tactical ability is borne of experience, their respect from their position.

 

Agreed.

 

I get the feeling they are a bit like the Wolf Guard in the sense that even an Assault Marine can get into the Sanguinary Guard if he's skilled and devout enough, and does something remarkable. Naturally I'd reckon a great number of the Sanguinary Guard are drawn from the Veterans of the Chapter.

[Israfel]

Nicely put by Leonaides, SG are probably a step up from VGV, somewhere next to terminators but they are not in the command cadre.

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

The SG were described as Sanguinius' former personal Bodyguard right? So in a way, they are a step up from a normal Honour Guard.

Their role in the Chapter outside of battle is also described as that of guards (hence the name) of the Tower of Blood or whatever the tower the Sanguinary Priests live in is called again.. At least, that is what I remember about their lore from the Codex.

 

Hmpf.. wish I had the book on hand now!

 

So that means their role is as much ceremonial as it is based on skill. They are the best of the best, tasked with guarding the most important people and secrets of the Blood Angels. But seeing the nature of the Chapter, their role is also to inspire their brethren in battle and be a physical example of the spirit of Sanguinius. This is shown in that they can have the honor to bear the Chapter Banner into battle. They are the honour guard of honour guards. Not tasked to guard a mere Captain or Chapter Master, but tasked to guard the pride and history of the chapter itself.

 

Just me 2 credits though.

[jma037]

The SG were described as Sanguinius' former personal Bodyguard right? So in a way, they are a step up from a normal Honour Guard.

Their role in the Chapter outside of battle is also described as that of guards (hence the name) of the Tower of Blood or whatever the tower the Sanguinary Priests live in is called again.. At least, that is what I remember about their lore from the Codex.

 

Hmpf.. wish I had the book on hand now!

 

So that means their role is as much ceremonial as it is based on skill. They are the best of the best, tasked with guarding the most important people and secrets of the Blood Angels. But seeing the nature of the Chapter, their role is also to inspire their brethren in battle and be a physical example of the spirit of Sanguinius. This is shown in that they can have the honor to bear the Chapter Banner into battle. They are the honour guard of honour guards. Not tasked to guard a mere Captain or Chapter Master, but tasked to guard the pride and history of the chapter itself.

 

Just me 2 credits though.

 

 

Epic! Can you image if the Sanguinor drops in on a bunch of Sanguinary Guards fighting a bloodthirster or something. The SG will cream their pants.

[jma037]

The SG were described as Sanguinius' former personal Bodyguard right? So in a way, they are a step up from a normal Honour Guard.

Their role in the Chapter outside of battle is also described as that of guards (hence the name) of the Tower of Blood or whatever the tower the Sanguinary Priests live in is called again.. At least, that is what I remember about their lore from the Codex.

 

Hmpf.. wish I had the book on hand now!

 

So that means their role is as much ceremonial as it is based on skill. They are the best of the best, tasked with guarding the most important people and secrets of the Blood Angels. But seeing the nature of the Chapter, their role is also to inspire their brethren in battle and be a physical example of the spirit of Sanguinius. This is shown in that they can have the honor to bear the Chapter Banner into battle. They are the honour guard of honour guards. Not tasked to guard a mere Captain or Chapter Master, but tasked to guard the pride and history of the chapter itself.

 

Just me 2 credits though.

 

 

Epic! Can you image if the Sanguinor drops in on a bunch of Sanguinary Guards fighting a bloodthirster or something. The SG will cream their pants.

[jma037]

The SG were described as Sanguinius' former personal Bodyguard right? So in a way, they are a step up from a normal Honour Guard.

Their role in the Chapter outside of battle is also described as that of guards (hence the name) of the Tower of Blood or whatever the tower the Sanguinary Priests live in is called again.. At least, that is what I remember about their lore from the Codex.

 

Hmpf.. wish I had the book on hand now!

 

So that means their role is as much ceremonial as it is based on skill. They are the best of the best, tasked with guarding the most important people and secrets of the Blood Angels. But seeing the nature of the Chapter, their role is also to inspire their brethren in battle and be a physical example of the spirit of Sanguinius. This is shown in that they can have the honor to bear the Chapter Banner into battle. They are the honour guard of honour guards. Not tasked to guard a mere Captain or Chapter Master, but tasked to guard the pride and history of the chapter itself.

 

Just me 2 credits though.

 

 

Epic! Can you image if the Sanguinor drops in on a bunch of Sanguinary Guards fighting a bloodthirster or something. The SG will cream their pants.

[jma037]

The SG were described as Sanguinius' former personal Bodyguard right? So in a way, they are a step up from a normal Honour Guard.

Their role in the Chapter outside of battle is also described as that of guards (hence the name) of the Tower of Blood or whatever the tower the Sanguinary Priests live in is called again.. At least, that is what I remember about their lore from the Codex.

 

Hmpf.. wish I had the book on hand now!

 

So that means their role is as much ceremonial as it is based on skill. They are the best of the best, tasked with guarding the most important people and secrets of the Blood Angels. But seeing the nature of the Chapter, their role is also to inspire their brethren in battle and be a physical example of the spirit of Sanguinius. This is shown in that they can have the honor to bear the Chapter Banner into battle. They are the honour guard of honour guards. Not tasked to guard a mere Captain or Chapter Master, but tasked to guard the pride and history of the chapter itself.

 

Just me 2 credits though.

 

 

Epic! Can you image if the Sanguinor drops in on a bunch of Sanguinary Guards fighting a bloodthirster or something. The SG will cream their pants.

[Erasmus of Baal]

I've seen double-post before, but...wow....

 

Devlonir has it right, I think. These guys are as symbolic as they are mighty in their own right. As for the Sanguinor, the Guard probably venerate him similarly (although in a lesser way) to Sanguinius.

[Wysten]

So good, it had to be posted 4 times. XD

 

I imagine most will think of him only as a legand. Like the Legion of the Damned, they don't show up very often, and just disappear afterwards.

 

Sanguinary guard are probably really good fighters that are not capable commanding material. Some veterains may show the skills of that of a captain, but not the wide mind to have a 100 space marines under his command. Just captains have more wounds as a game machanic and that fielding units full of HQ strong guys would be unfair..

[Aramis_the_Red]

So good, it had to be posted 4 times. XD

 

I imagine most will think of him only as a legand. Like the Legion of the Damned, they don't show up very often, and just disappear afterwards.

 

Sanguinary guard are probably really good fighters that are not capable commanding material. Some veterains may show the skills of that of a captain, but not the wide mind to have a 100 space marines under his command. Just captains have more wounds as a game machanic and that fielding units full of HQ strong guys would be unfair..

 

Unfair? Maybe. Awesome? Definitely.

[Brother Nathan]

i think of them as a sepeate company, an even more elite company than the 1st. just like how chaptermasters of the marine codex have honourguard (and that the ultramarines master can have 3 squads worth) our chaptermasters have sanguary guard. ok seth has a limited company and idont imagine they have many san guard but they have them and he likely has them do exceptinally difficult tasks. They are the elite of the elite. Maby some of them have been aides by the sanguinator and is partially why they have been shifted to sanguard.But normal company marines probably dont see them often, just like most companys dont often see alot of the other companys. Its difficult enough to get to know your own hundred men without getting to know the vets who are likely looking at you and thinking 'noob'.

As for the sanguinator, its more likely the vets that know more,specially the longlived ones. mab some know more than others, imagine being told abou him...

'did you hear about the 3rd squad of the 4th co, accidentially awoke a necron tomb world'

'really, so they havebeen all added to te annuals of the dead then?'

'no a few were saved by a gostly deamon apperation that was like the primarch'

'wait waht!!! did they get some of that ferinisainan beer again? nutters...'

 

yea think inquisiton would come a knocking if that went round quickly... more like a select few would be told. likely all in high renk would know just incase, mayby trickle down to sarges but not to scouts and unlikely to normal marines. Sanguary guard probably all know. venerate him? hmm they wouldnt know enough about him, bound to be suspicious and hopeful, thankful that sofar hes on thier side etc. venerate...no. if thy knew who he was or what...maby...

[Cowl]

The SG were described as Sanguinius' former personal Bodyguard right? So in a way, they are a step up from a normal Honour Guard.

 

I'd agree with that. The other difference betweenthe Sanguinary Guard and Honour Guard (I would imagine) is that whereas an Honour Guard is a temporary unit that a Blood Angel can be called on to join for a special mission or occasion the Sanguinary Guard is a more permanent appointment, kind of like joining a special order within the chapter. I don’t think it says that anywhere in the codex but that was my impression.

 

On a side question (sorry if it’s off topic), do we imagine that a SG Blood Angel could be promoted to Captain or higher or would it be a case of joining the SG until death?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

the feeling i've got was that SG is BA version of special forces. you join, no one besides your direct superiors know exactly what is you do, but if need be you can be used to operate in a regular unit. like a marine scout sniper, they tend to keep to themselves and if push comes to shove they can be taken from their specialty role and used as a boost in frontline duties.

[Jorre]

Alot of people seem to think the Sanguinary guard are not leadership material, I'd have to disagree. I would like to think that they are more skilled/disaplined than even the veterans of the first company. In such a case any one of them would be able to step up if someone more suitable was not around to lead a battle force, or if the normal leader was injured or killed. How ever they would probably only do this if the normal chain of command was broken, eg Captain chaplins Sang priests or Librarians are not available to step in. I would think in the event that the normal chain of command is broken they would step into a advisery role for who ever is taking over possibly to judge his worthy hood for a full command position only actually stepping in if the new guy isn't ready to take on the responsibility.

 

I would also suggest that they report directly to Commander Dante as well and he would probably have more contact with them than any of his Captains. Hence the reason they are troops when he is with them.

 

I suggest that they are an extension of Dante's eyes and ears since he can't be everywhere at once

[Leonaides]

they aren't leadership material. And the chain of command goes captain- senior tactical veteran sergeant- next senior tac vet sergeant- etc. Dont confuse tt force org positions with fluff background. The sang guard will have experience of a lot of battles, and with that experience will come battlefield accumen, but that will be a poor second to a senior sergeant who knows the company better, and has more recent training in company level tactics with the relevant company. Sg may well be dante's eyes and ears, but they are also his blade and his fist- they got sent on revenge mission vs eldar etc.

[Jorre]

Hence the reason I am sure they would act as a guide rather than taking control unless the situation is dire. I would suspect most of them would of been a veteran sergent at some time and hence qualify for the job

[shatter]

Hi, long time sulker, ofttimes poster.

 

I'd say Sanguard are veterans with proven strength of mind and have earned the right to be chapter honour guard as opposed to an individual's (IC) honour guard. Ie. they're exemplars of the traditions favoured by these sons of Sanguinius.

 

IMO they are simply the cream of the cream of quality Angels. A few centuries of running a tactical or assault squad until you're the last man standing must get a little wearying after a while... let some new Blood have a go.

 

Assuming therefore that these guys are old, it's no wonder they've got the artificer armour, no?

 

If we're talking about Blood Angels specifically, there must be a very long and rather full waiting list to fill Dante's boots.

Ask the obvious question; are all Blood Angel veterans retards until a captain dies?

Who knows, maybe it's the holding pen for captains potential.

 

Maybe, there's another reason...

 

What if, they and their artificer armour are not just protecting the honour of the chapter, but the oldest and therefore, arguably, the purest of the gene-seed sources? The codex makes it clear that the curse is getting worse. For what reason? Is the veil between the materium and the warp thinning, amplifying the feedback from Sanguinius's anguish or a slow and inexorable degradation in the seed? Both?

Perhaps those recruits with the best mental and physical potential get the fewest generation gene-seed and get earmarked for Sanguard.

 

*shrug*

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Alot of people seem to think the Sanguinary guard are not leadership material, I'd have to disagree. I would like to think that they are more skilled/disaplined than even the veterans of the first company. In such a case any one of them would be able to step up if someone more suitable was not around to lead a battle force, or if the normal leader was injured or killed. How ever they would probably only do this if the normal chain of command was broken, eg Captain chaplins Sang priests or Librarians are not available to step in. I would think in the event that the normal chain of command is broken they would step into a advisery role for who ever is taking over possibly to judge his worthy hood for a full command position only actually stepping in if the new guy isn't ready to take on the responsibility.

 

I would also suggest that they report directly to Commander Dante as well and he would probably have more contact with them than any of his Captains. Hence the reason they are troops when he is with them.

 

I suggest that they are an extension of Dante's eyes and ears since he can't be everywhere at once

no one is saying that they're not leadership material, just simply that they are not commanders. ya if the captain or who ever is leading the attack goes down and things go south the SG sarge could take over easily and command using nothing besides the respect of his brothers to give the commands.

 

it's just that a regular SG would still be subordinate to a vet sarge in the chain of command