Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 So would Astorath take orders from a veteran sergeant or combat squad leader? Veteran sergeant elevated to acting captain when the previous captian dies - yes, I'd expect Astorath to support his command, and the orderly command structure so that everyone knows that even though the captain is dead, the command structure is still in place - or would you rather the various sergeants start giving their own orders out, not acting in unison, and unable to co-ordinate the battle any more? If the more senior 11 marines in the company have already died (every sergeant and the captain), then I think Astorath will probably be very busy fighting his little red socks off... more to the point perhaps, is this little snippet form the tactical squad entry inthe codex: "Should the captain be slain or otherwise eliminated, command of the strikeforce automatically and seamlessly passes to the most senior tactical sergeant." No mention of it passing to the most senior chaplain or Sang Priest of Librarian there... personally i believe that astorath would assume command because he is the high chaplain and does sit on the chapter council and may even some day be making decisions in coordination with corbulo should dante take off or die. the chaplains are leaders, they lead their brothers into battle inspiring them w/ their firey speeches (like a commissar but not killing the officers) as do i believe a librarian would or a sanguinary priest. just because the captain dies doesn't mean the '1st' sergeant gets a field promotion to captain and takes over, no the brother with the senior position would, thus chaplain, librarian, etc. but seeing as how the SG are just veteran veterans they rank as battle-brother unless they are an SG sergeant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211798-fluff-discussion-the-sanguinor-and-the-sanguinary-guards/page/3/#findComment-2523493 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 It doesnt make sense that Astorath would take orders from a sergeant. Sounds like an everyman's fantasy to me. 0b :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211798-fluff-discussion-the-sanguinor-and-the-sanguinary-guards/page/3/#findComment-2523531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Marines promote/specialise accoreding to their own individual talents. A Sergeant is on the command track/being groomed for potential captaincy. A chaplain is not. A senior sergeant will have better tactical awareness/training than a senior chaplain. Command is as much of a specialism as chaplains/sang priests/techmarines/librarians. If the situation was reversed, wouly you expect a captain to take over the Forge if the MotF was killed? No, you'd look at the next most senior techmarine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211798-fluff-discussion-the-sanguinor-and-the-sanguinary-guards/page/3/#findComment-2523587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucumon Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Marines promote/specialise accoreding to their own individual talents. A Sergeant is on the command track/being groomed for potential captaincy. A chaplain is not. A senior sergeant will have better tactical awareness/training than a senior chaplain. Command is as much of a specialism as chaplains/sang priests/techmarines/librarians. If the situation was reversed, wouly you expect a captain to take over the Forge if the MotF was killed? No, you'd look at the next most senior techmarine. +1 A higher ranking officer will realize the limits of their own leadership and defer to the chain of command. The chain of command does not always mean the absolute rank structure. My assumption of this imaginary and magical world is that a Chaplain would always defer to the leadership rather than their own commissar-like skill set. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211798-fluff-discussion-the-sanguinor-and-the-sanguinary-guards/page/3/#findComment-2523594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Sergeant "Hey Yo Astro Boy polish my boots and make them shine." * Shhhing * Sound of Astorath decapitating Sergeant. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211798-fluff-discussion-the-sanguinor-and-the-sanguinary-guards/page/3/#findComment-2523674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 some how i think brother sepharan would disagree... And a sargents first job is to his chapter, and his rank is for his squad. its not nessarily to take up command. til he gets promoted to captaincy hes still a sarge. not that it liely matters as if a captain is killed they will likely all get peved and go phsyco and kill all til they can arrange a short time commander till one gets appointed by the chaptermaster. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211798-fluff-discussion-the-sanguinor-and-the-sanguinary-guards/page/3/#findComment-2523700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shatter Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 This is silly. Common off mission CoC works by seniority. Mission CoC is typically spelled out in advance. sgt doofus, promoted 1st april. sgt hero, promoted 2nd april. yep, doofus has (off mission) seniority. In our 40k universe, we use super soldiers that are disciplined and pragmatic in regards to who's in charge. The right man for the job gets it in a general sense. So all of this is nonsense. Dante exemplifies this in both regards. He is the oldest AND the best of the chaptermasters (with regard to command). Under their armour, Sanguard = Veteran = Sgt by statline (with a single exception) ie. as the (our) codex doesn't say otherwise, they're the same under their armour. Personal reputation and presence gets the automatic salute if you ask me. As Sanguard are likely older. ie. have seniority as above. They are proven superior by virtue of their selection into the sanguinary guard. The difference in statline that has been much unnoticed is the leadership score. (lol) By the 10 versus 9, I'd say the Sanguard model is the superior leader. If leadership was called morale, maybe not... but that's not the case and it's the only raw evidence offered within the (our) codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211798-fluff-discussion-the-sanguinor-and-the-sanguinary-guards/page/3/#findComment-2523701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Devlonir Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 Also, when a Captain dies in battle, I believe the same happens as when the Chapter Master dies. The Reclusiarchs in battle will take over control with the mission of finding a suitable Sergeant (aka, not near to Black Rage) to replace the Captain. The Black Rage changes normal command structure on the Chapter Master level, why would field promotions be any different? Avoiding the Black Rage is an important trait for any Blood Angels Captain. Tycho got field promoted and eventually fell to the Rage, but this was because of an injury he received after he was promoted. So at the time of promotion he seemed viable by the Reclusiarchs and was promoted. That is how I see it at least. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211798-fluff-discussion-the-sanguinor-and-the-sanguinary-guards/page/3/#findComment-2523958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 Chaplains rank higher and are even more important in our chapter. 0b :thanks: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211798-fluff-discussion-the-sanguinor-and-the-sanguinary-guards/page/3/#findComment-2524070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted September 29, 2010 Share Posted September 29, 2010 ok wow, this got soooooo far off topic. any way the original topic was about SG, fluff wise are they leaders? no. game wise, are they leaders? no. fluff wise can they lead? most likely. game wise can they lead? no. it's that simple but about 'how hard it is to command a marine company' if i can keep 10+ unruly little kids in line and get them to do what i want w/ only 8yrs of experience total in the dojo, then i'm sure most any marine that has basic tactical sense can get these elite warriors who are trained to follow orders unquestioningly, especially if that marine has spent the last 100yrs being considered the best of the best. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/211798-fluff-discussion-the-sanguinor-and-the-sanguinary-guards/page/3/#findComment-2524095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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