Yesterday I steamrolled a new player

[PKAwolf]

...there was no honor in my victory.

We played kill points. In the end it was 10 to 4 with him all but tabled save for his Nobz. His Orks broke left and right, ran off the board, swept into oblivion, and displayed typical orky aim. This was his first introduction to our gaming group at the store, I really do hope he took it in stride and comes back. I really wanted to keep it sporting (sure Ill give you a cover save vs that, oh you forgot to roll that? go ahead and do it now), but I also played by the rules as harsh as they are (sorry, they're below half, they keep running). He dedicated too much fire at the Lone Wolf fearing it to be more of a threat than it is and couldn't get the drop on my for the assault.

To his credit though, his Nobz (on foot) wrecked a full unit of Hunters and a 4man unit of ThunderWolves. Did not see that coming. I feel bad about it and needed to share it.

[Grimtooth]

Did they guy have fun playing even though he got rolled? How old was he?

 

Here is the thing, you can get rolled and still have a good time with what little minor victories you had in the game. In this case, seeing his Nobz work over your Hunters and TWC. If he is older or even just a mature younger guy, he is going to see that focused fire on the LW was a mistake and take that into account with other SW players and maybe even with other armies that have a powerful unit that can somewhat be ignored (Necron Ctan comes to mind).

 

Did you chat him up after the game? Talking not just about what he did wrong, but also mention how it was whacky to see your Hunters and TWC get wiped? Even when I don't know an army because I never played them, when I smoke a guy on the table, I will still mention things that I was worried he might have done that would have caused me problem to open up their eyes. Kinda along the lines,

 

"Wow, I was happy you focused so much fire on my LW."

[DV8]

There is no point coddling a new player, because you won't always be his opponent. In their newness it is guaranteed they will come up against both the best and worst of this hobby, and they need to be prepared in every aspect to face this. The sooner they can begin honing their skills, the better, as it shapes them much more quickly into the players they need to be.

 

Did you fight with honor? Did you abide by the rules of the game, as a player of integrity? Did you seek to give your opponent as much input as can readily be expected of an opponent during the game, and then as a mentor pull them aside to teach them? There is no shame in a victory, no dis-honor in playing this game as men. You lose your honor when you must shame yourself with under-handed methods to win this game.

 

Above all, never forget that one learns more from defeat than they do in victory.

 

 

DV8

[Grey Mage]

Indeed, it sounds like you were a gentleman about it. Reality is better then being snuggled up to your first tournament, or new player and going 'hey, wait, WHAT?"

 

I was completely tabled in my first and third games, had only half a squad of Gaurdians in the second. Heck, I didnt even get the honor of wiping out a squad tell game three either. My first win? Game five. Dark Reaper Exarch took out a Landraider on a lucky roll and I poured enough sustained fire dice into those terminators that even Tzeentch didnt know who they were.

 

It made me a better player. You learn from your mistakes, you come back for more- its not like real war, were people actually died eh?

 

Alot of it is in the attitude though. Some people like myself prefer to jump in and start swimming as best they can, others need a bit of encouragement. Just a simple 'hey, nice work' or 'aw crap, that hurts' when you lose a unit to them can help ease the bruised ego a bit and make them more receptive to constructive criticism during, or after, the game.

 

'Hey, so you might want to take a boss pole next time. Its only 5pts, but if it means your Nobz dont run off the boardits a good investment, right?"

 

Etc etc.

[The Normish]

Yeah, the few times I played I got steamrolled as well (even at a double-point advantage - I suck). I of course swore vengeance upon my enemy, and we were all very sporting about it. Seems like you had the right attitude.

EDIT: Ech, sorry. Wasn't paying attention to the fact that this is a Space Wolf thread and I play Codex: Space Marines.

[rodf]

That is not a steam roll if he manage to get points off you. Not bad for a new player.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

How many points did you play at?

How old was he?

 

He'll learn. I think it is not bad for greenhorns to get beaten down straight off the bat. If they have a string of wins from the start, they'll actually believe they are good and really be crushed when beaten.

 

Lone Wolves are not actually that tough. If you get flukey rolls with them, cool, but that can happen with anything and it seems tough, good, etc.

t4 sv 3+ with FNP

12 wounds 4 failed saves 2 failed FNP rolls = 1 lot of xx pts

 

t4 sv 3+

12 wounds 4 failed saves = 3 lots of xx pts of GH

 

Looks good yes?

 

but how many run LW armed like that? Anything without a ++ save will be a prime choice for ap1, 2 and even 3 weapons. Power weapons will go through him.

 

So you give him a SS to stop that happening. 5/6 lots of xx points now. And a power weapon and he is 5 over the GHs.

 

So with goodies, he is no tougher, point for point, than the same amount of Marines.

Your foe levelling fire at your LW [assuming he is armed with goodies] is no worse than doing so at your Greys.

 

Interesting that he took the TWC. They are really brutal against non-MEq units.

[slmellon]

Win or lose, having fun is the main thing. Hopefully he had fun. I always like having a quick talk about what we could have done during that would have effected the game, how to improve and the like.

[morehardcore]

/sarcasm i hope you had fun.... /sarcasm off but its fine to steamroll new players, every1 needs to learn some how did he at least know the rules, and as long as you help him learn from his mistakes your good

[Kreon]

Just remember it's important not to be like the guy who taught me to play.

 

He fielded a cheesy mechanized ork list against my black reach set (with its single ML), didn't explain anything unless it benefited him, lied on several dice rolls and point values, and was all around not helping me understand the game any better.

 

Then I started assaulting him instead of letting him come to me. Beat him soundly for the last 3 turns, killing several complete units and forcing a couple others off the table.

 

He then put all his minis away, threw a bit of a tantrum and called the Marines overpowered, and left the shop for the day. Wonderful introduction to the hobby.

[Zid]

I don't really agree that "tough love" is the way to introduce newbies to the hobby. I take a softer list for peeps who are learning; if I win, cool, if I lose, cool. Steamrolling I only do for:

A) douchebags

;) Comp list matchups

 

New guys deserve a fighting chance. Theres plenty of time to beat them down once they know somewhat of what they're doing... just feels dirty when they don't even know how to move models @_@

[Grey Mage]

Well theres a difference between taking a tooled out list and just not pulling your punches in game.

 

And of course, you have to gauge it by your opponent- Ive found with a couple guys I needed to make tactical mistakes and then point them out immediately afterwords. Once their turn comes up, if they dont take advantage of it I can talk it over with them about how they might have.

[Zynk Kaladin]

I hope he's man enough to fight you again ;)

[Simo429]

Yeah its not a nice feeling, I played a tau player who continually moved his army closer to me a couple of weeks ago, I warned him not to but it was over by turn 3. He killed 2 long fangs and 4 grey hunters out of 1750 points.

[The Normish]

Yeah its not a nice feeling, I played a tau player who continually moved his army closer to me a couple of weeks ago, I warned him not to but it was over by turn 3. He killed 2 long fangs and 4 grey hunters out of 1750 points.

Sounds like me. I'm always assaulting Orks despite knowing I shouldn't.

[the jeske]

unless its with tau or tac marines assaulting orks is a viable tactic for meq armies. specialy chaos and SW.

[Grey Mage]

Hell, even with tacticals- denying the charge bonus, and furious charge to boot, takes alot of bite off a boyz mob.

[Wysten]

Aye, thing is, individal Orks are not really designed for close combat. They are just designed to be cheap and massable in huge numbers. A typical space wolf with 3 attacks on the charge, a bolter and pistol and really solid armour should pretty much win most battles with Orks as long as they are smart about it. Engage on your own terms, not on theirs and I have the best of faith that a Grey Hunter pack will defeat a Ork Mob any day of the week. Even tacticals have a reasonable chance of keeping them locked in combat until something bigger can cut into them.

 

It's just what else they throw at you while trying to kill the sea of green thats the problem. XD

[Kreon]

I can attest that Tacticals can really brutalize an Ork mob in CC. They'll take some pretty heavy losses in general, but I've done it several times. It's way more important to not let the Orks charge you.

 

Plus, if they happen to have a chaplain with them, they'll win no problem.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Hell, even with tacticals- denying the charge bonus, and furious charge to boot, takes alot of bite off a boyz mob.

I can attest that Tacticals can really brutalize an Ork mob in CC. They'll take some pretty heavy losses in general, but I've done it several times. It's way more important to not let the Orks charge you.

 

Plus, if they happen to have a chaplain with them, they'll win no problem.

 

:D

Taking the bite off and winning are two different things. Tacs barely beat down Guard and Tau.

 

Stopping the Orks from shooting and assaulting you is a big thing, but basically once the Tacs are in, nothing happens :cuss . It's like clinching in boxing.

"I can't win, I'll bog you down"

 

If you are lucky, you might bp+assault in your turn, not break in your assault phase, not get badly beaten up in his phase and then Combat tactics out to RF whilst giving a 2nd squad time to cover ground a give support.

 

Kreon: I don't think you should be using a Chaplain with a Tac squad. If you are going to use him, do so on a squad that has plenty of attacks to buff in the first place. I think Terms are the best choice.

 

I also think you'll get more back for buck with a Librarian, using Gate and Nullzone to move "that 2nd squad" around to add RF against the Orks.

Librarian w/ NZ + Gate alongside Sternguard.

Get the Sternguard into important places or remove ++ saves and use the gets hot! ammo.

[PKAwolf]

wow suprised to see this thread still has legs, but to answer some questions:

 

the Ork player was 20 and did seem to take it well on the surface.

 

and the Nobz ate my TWC because of chance. only 3 of 4 could get any attacks in, zero rends. the hammer hit twice and rolled snake eyes to wound. then the Pain Boy gave me the finger and the Nobz finished me. just poor circumstance that totally could have gone in any direction depending the whims of the dice gods.

 

and sadly no we didnt debrief after the game, we watched his buddy play my buddys in a 2v2. and seeing that I finally played a game that ended before the store kicked us out at midnight, I went home early to spend time with the wife (who was asleep anyways, lol).

 

after the game he spent about $100 at the store on some things to round out his list, so Im looking forward to playing again once he sharpens his teeth.

thanks guys

[Grey Mage]

How did you manage to have a TWC Not within 2" of the other 3?

 

Anywho, Im glad he seemed to take it well, keep us updated!

[PKAwolf]

How did you manage to have a TWC Not within 2" of the other 3?

 

Anywho, Im glad he seemed to take it well, keep us updated!

 

they came from the board edge so they were lined up, the nobz were to my 2 o'clock 8~10 inches away and the bases are 60mm so the wolf on my left couldn't get within 2" of the lead wolf

[Lord Ragnarok]

wow suprised to see this thread still has legs, but to answer some questions:

 

the Ork player was 20 and did seem to take it well on the surface.

 

and the Nobz ate my TWC because of chance. only 3 of 4 could get any attacks in, zero rends. the hammer hit twice and rolled snake eyes to wound. then the Pain Boy gave me the finger and the Nobz finished me. just poor circumstance that totally could have gone in any direction depending the whims of the dice gods.

 

and sadly no we didnt debrief after the game, we watched his buddy play my buddys in a 2v2. and seeing that I finally played a game that ended before the store kicked us out at midnight, I went home early to spend time with the wife (who was asleep anyways, lol).

 

after the game he spent about $100 at the store on some things to round out his list, so Im looking forward to playing again once he sharpens his teeth.

thanks guys

 

 

Send him to "DaWaaagh.com" for some "propa instruktion" http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/hansmannstein/Relictors/Orks/thumbs-1.gif