deamon weapons

[Demoulius]

hello guys,

 

in working on a chaos army for a short while. im examining the deamon weapon options and tbh im heavily leaning towards nurgle for its strengths, but since the army isent using any (or hardly anyway) nurgle units this gives me somewhat of a problem...

 

non of them really are BAD per se (heck they all got +d6 power weapons attacks for thrones sake) but some seem to be inherently more powerfull

 

-the nurgle one for example grants poisend attacks, and since you get a reroll if your S equals or beats their T its pretty much a pair of lightning claws....on crack B) increased T also very nice. even more if put on bike :woot: sure you can still be ID'ed but against any other attacks your lord isent going down any time soon ^_^

-the khorne one is simply a meatgrinder. you press the button and hope the machine doesent short circuit (roll a 1) and chop up whatever it is your aiming your machine at :lol: (besides, you also get +1 attack from the MoK so at the very least you get 3+1+4=8 attacks...how is that NOT awesome?) only downside is the increased chance of rolling a 1 for the weapon....

-slaanesh, coupled with the marks benefit of increased initiative this is very nice to instant kill enemy characters and/or MC's if your lucky enough to wound them....aside from that nothing special. its not all that (more) usefull against rank and file marines compared to the other deamon weapons...

-tzeentch. the only deamon weapon with ranged attacks! i like :woot: but like the slaaneshi one, hardly anything special in h2h compared to the other deamon weapons. mark increases survivability in combat though

-the generic deamon weapon. S5 isent bad....at all. its just not incredible either ;) sure you wound more easily and can somewhat reliably hunt MC's and the rear of tanks but meh....

 

-generic one is good for a cheap support character imho.

-the nurgle one would be a beast when put on a bike.

-the khorne one is a nice option to chop entire units to bits.

-slaanesh is nice when you need to hunt enemy characters.

tzeentch is nice in unit that either lacks ranged power, or already has simular hitting power and high Initiative, like a unit of noise marines.

 

that just my take on it though, id love to hear from you gents. your playing this army longer than i have (as i havent played yet :D )

[the jeske]

non of them really are BAD per se (heck they all got +d6 power weapons attacks for thrones sake) but some seem to be inherently more powerfull

the khorn one is bad to the extrem . its up there with spawn , possessed and dreads. In the never ever use slot of the codex.

 

nurgle is good because of the re-roll , undivided is good if someone doesnt want to take a nurgle lord. slanesh is too situational , its great against IC with t4 , but if something has a SS and/or more T it becomes hard to kill stuff. If something has eternal warrior or has t6+ it is an over costed weaker version of the undivided weapon.

the tzeench one should be doing ok in a 1ksons build more shoting for a shoting army , only a 1ksons army does better with a DP then a lord and for a normal csm mecha or LR rush a shoty power is a waste [both because of double chance of doing nothing and because of it being a weaker version of the undivided weapon in hth].

 

 

 

-generic one is good for a cheap support character imho.

that is kind of a not true a lord with demon weapon does not cost less then a DP. and a DP is always superior to a lord. the only reason to play the undivided weapon is fluff[dont want to use the nurgle one] or playing a LR rush build [which doesnt of course mean that a DP is bad for a LR rush build , it is of course better ].

[Kizzdougs]

Welcome to the eight fold path brother, the true path :devil:

 

Personally i think the Plague Bringer is the best option. It is the best all rounder and doesn't have any weaknesses in specialisation.

3+1+1d6 attacks hitting most things on a 3+ and wounding everything on a 4+ with re-rolls against most things, YES PLEASE :D Toughness 5 isn't too bad either.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

The Tzeentch one in my opinion is the best. When you think about it you get as many attacks as the Khorne weapon D6 in the shooting phase and D6 in combat, but have less chance of losing all of your attacks because they are rolled at separate times. You have a greater chance of surviving the backlash as Tzeentch because of your 4+ invuln. Marines are better at shooting than close combat so the ranged aspect really comes into the fore. D6 shots, hitting on 2+, wounding on 4+ (vs marines), AP3, sounds pretty good.

 

Tzeentch

Shooting = 83% X 50% X 3.5 = 1.45

Assault = 66.6% X 50% X 7.5 = 2.5

Total = 1.45 + 2.5 = 3.95 dead marines with a maximum of 16

 

Nurgle

Assault = 66.6% X 75% X 7.5 = 3.75 with a maximum of 10

 

Khorne

Assault = 66.6% X 50% X 12 = 4 with a maximum of 17 but a 33.3% chance of not attacking at all

 

Slaanesh

Assault = 66.6% X 50% X 7.5 = 2.5 with a maximum of 10

 

Undivided

Assault = 66.6% X 66.6% X 7.5 = 3.3 with a maximum of 10

[minigun762]

In close combat, which is the main focus of any Chaos Lord, the Nurgle weapon outshines the rest in the majority of situations followed closely by the Undivided weapon because they both make your multiple attacks hit harder which means more wounds and more dead Marines (or whatever you're swinging at).

 

Slaaneshi is probably the next best, since it puts out alot of fear, nobody likes insta-death stuff. The bigger bonus is probably that you're striking @ I6 which is before other Marine HQs.

 

Hiro brings up a good point with the potential of the Tzeentch weapon, but it really requires you to build your HQ with it in mind. Its much more of a "water warrior" weapon then any of the others, so requires a bit more thought.

 

I agree 110% with Jeske on the Khorne Weapon.

[Demoulius]

tbh, undevided DM lord can join units, which a deamon prince cant. sure he can hide behind other units and/or terrain but mobile opponents can negate that...

 

aside from that i a gree, the DP is a better option.

 

but, were not talking about DP's im tlaking about lords with deamon weapons ;)

 

-edit- somehow missed the other replies :blush:

 

yea the khorne DM is risky. seen it used a few times, at least once every battle (sometimes more) it dident hit at all. once i saw a player get double 6 for extra attacks :| lets just say that my unit was soon very much gone :)

 

and at other times its mediocre at best. the attacks are still at S4 so while he may have many attacks, the strength is pretty low against MC's and vehicles, so youll have to roll alot of 5 or 6's.... which from experience i can tell you doesent happen the moment you need it the most :angry:

 

the tzeentch DM i dident really consider a top player because...well....DM's are more or less a powerfull close combat weapon. if you take one and get a shooting attack instead of more powerfull combat attacks then your missing out on the point of the weapon imho.... though granted, AP3 is really nice. just that most units get a cover save nowadays anyway so the chances of the shots getting ignored are very present :wacko:

[Hiro_Protagonist]

The Tzeentch weapon is definitely "water warrior". I like him on a bike (same toughness now as nurgle) moving around "sniping" units until they're weakened and then charge on in.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I'm pretty much swearing by the Undivided one. Str 5 with +1d6 additional attacks is nothing to sneeze at. Bloodfeeder failed me three times in a row in my last tournament so I'll not be messing with that suicide machine anymore. I'll pay the 5 additional points and field Khârn instead.

[aeroplane]

The best one? Honestly, it's a pair of Lightning Claws and either the MoK or MoS.

 

The Daemon weapon is just too unreliable. It's no so much about the wound it gives you, but the lack of any damage that your lord will do that turn. Statistically it will backfire on you every game. Claws are consistent, (they always work!) have a re-roll to wound (which is the equivalent of 30% more attacks) and look awesome. MoK and you get an extra attack, MoS and you will hit MEQ before they can hit back.

 

However, if you have to choose a Daemon weapon, just use a Daemon Prince.

[the jeske]

with a tzeench weapon he either sits in a squad [so wastes his and/or the squads hth abilty] to use the weapon as a gun . if you use him agresive you get one , maybe two shots [all the time you can roll a one and do nothing] which does not counterbalance the fact that the tzeench weapon in hth is worse then the nurgle or undivided one . And if you try to play him on a bike or with wings ... welcome to 5th ed where we have true line of sigh , ad6 shot ap 3 weapon does not wipe 10 man squads run by more[hell it doest even wipe 6 man squads from razor builds , not even if you target the same unit with 2 lords] ,while at the same time any form of str 8 ap 3 weapon means ID for him .

one can try to run a dual lord build with lets say two "bodyguard" in form of oblits , but compering to what a DP or even a normal counter lord does for a chaos list it is still inferior.[as it costs the same. now if a tzeench lord cost a lot less then a DP or a nurgle/undivided lord we could argue here].

[Skirax]

I love the Undivided Daemon Weapon, because I'm a Word Bearer :)

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I love the Undivided Daemon Weapon, because I'm a Word Bearer :yes:

 

I'd love it better if it were a proper accursed crozius that didn't potentially screw you 1/6th of the time. :)

[Skirax]

I love the Undivided Daemon Weapon, because I'm a Word Bearer :)

 

I'd love it better if it were a proper accursed crozius that didn't potentially screw you 1/6th of the time. :D

Indeed. I'm working on a Word Bearer Codex at the minute actually, and Accursed Crozii are pretty much safer Daemon Weapons.

[Hellios]

Daemon Weapons can't be as dangerous as they are in the game (to the user) otherwise all the followers of chaos would be dead by now... bring back the leadership test...

[Vissah]

The best one is the one Abaddon carries :D

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

The best one is the one Abaddon carries :jaw:

 

Yes, because spending 270 points for a weapon that will screw you 1/6th of the time is better than spending 40. :jaw:

[Chengar Qordath]

Daemon Weapons can't be as dangerous as they are in the game (to the user) otherwise all the followers of chaos would be dead by now... bring back the leadership test...

I think the problem is that, while daemon weapons are incredibly dangerous, tabletop is not the best place to represent that danger. A daemon weapon works slowly and insidiously, corrupting and weakening its user over the course of many years before eventually possessing its wielder. 40k RPGs are better suited to showing that kind of gradual process than the one-off battles that most tabletop matches are.

 

The best one is the one Abaddon carries :D

 

Yes, because spending 270 points for a weapon that will screw you 1/6th of the time is better than spending 40. -_-

To be fair, the 40 point Daemon Weapon doesn't hit at Strength 8 on Initiative 6.

[Chapter Master Ignis Domus]

The slaaneshi one works beautifully. Every game I use it in, my lord has earned his points back easily and sometimes even double!

[travh20]

Where does it say the Nurgle Daemon weapon lets you reroll wounds?

[Chengar Qordath]

Where does it say the Nurgle Daemon weapon lets you reroll wounds?

It comes from being poisoned.

[Gearhead]

Where does it say the Nurgle Daemon weapon lets you reroll wounds?

It comes from being poisoned.

 

This is only against opponent whose Toughness is less or equal to the lords Strength. He'll still wound on 4's, but he re-rolls. I didn't think much of the Nurgle Deamon Weapon until I realized that is was poisoned and a power weapon, which is actually kind of nasty.

[Warsmith Aznable]

I suppose if you're playing competitively go ahead and hate on the Bloodfeeder. For me it's not all about winning, I enjoy both the risk involved with Chaos stuff and the "flavor" of it. My Chaos Lord never leaves home without his Bloodfeeder anymore. It's too damn hilarious, whether he's bonging himself in the head with it or scything down entire squads in spectacular harvests of death, it's just fun to have.

 

One question, though. If he's wearing Terminator armor (just started putting one together...), can you take the 5++ Inv. Save on the Daemon Weapon wound if you roll a 1?

[Drudge Dreadnought]

The best daemon weapon is the one that counts as twin lightning claws.

 

But then again, the best lord is the one who counts as a daemon prince.

[Chengar Qordath]

I suppose if you're playing competitively go ahead and hate on the Bloodfeeder. For me it's not all about winning, I enjoy both the risk involved with Chaos stuff and the "flavor" of it. My Chaos Lord never leaves home without his Bloodfeeder anymore. It's too damn hilarious, whether he's bonging himself in the head with it or scything down entire squads in spectacular harvests of death, it's just fun to have.

 

One question, though. If he's wearing Terminator armor (just started putting one together...), can you take the 5++ Inv. Save on the Daemon Weapon wound if you roll a 1?

You can take an invulnerable save against the wound from rolling a one on the daemon weapon with or without Terminator armor.

[nightlordsrock3564]

The best one is the one Abaddon carries B)

 

Yes, because spending 270 points for a weapon that will screw you 1/6th of the time is better than spending 40. :devil:

 

have to admit though that is a BIG sword