deamon weapons

[Warsmith Aznable]

I suppose if you're playing competitively go ahead and hate on the Bloodfeeder. For me it's not all about winning, I enjoy both the risk involved with Chaos stuff and the "flavor" of it. My Chaos Lord never leaves home without his Bloodfeeder anymore. It's too damn hilarious, whether he's bonging himself in the head with it or scything down entire squads in spectacular harvests of death, it's just fun to have.

 

One question, though. If he's wearing Terminator armor (just started putting one together...), can you take the 5++ Inv. Save on the Daemon Weapon wound if you roll a 1?

You can take an invulnerable save against the wound from rolling a one on the daemon weapon with or without Terminator armor.

 

:D

 

I've got to start paying more attention to the codex...

 

So yeah, thanks for clearing that up for me. ;)

[Chimerical]

The Slaaneshi daemon weapon may be situational, but it is for situations that rather form a hole in our army. Unless you already bring Vindis or to a lesser extent Defilers or Dreadnaughts, it really puts the fear in those damned multi-wound units like Nobs, Thunderwolves, Bloodcrushers, various Tyranid monsters, and of course, a majority of enemy HQs who lack eternal warrior. And protected in a squad it can't be neutralised as easily as vehicles.

 

For these reasons, it's my favourite. That said, Nurgle and Undivided DWs are just as good or better for general purposes.

[travh20]

Where does it say the Nurgle Daemon weapon lets you reroll wounds?

It comes from being poisoned.

 

 

Wow, okay I see that now. Question though, does this apply also to hellfire rounds, which are poisoned, or is it strictly poisoned CCWs?

[Chengar Qordath]

Where does it say the Nurgle Daemon weapon lets you reroll wounds?

It comes from being poisoned.

 

 

Wow, okay I see that now. Question though, does this apply also to hellfire rounds, which are poisoned, or is it strictly poisoned CCWs?

As Gearhead said, it only applies against things that have a toughness equal to or lower than the strength of the attack. A lot of ranged poisoned weapons like hellfire rounds have very low strength, which means they won't get a re-roll against most opponents.

[Gearhead]

Where does it say the Nurgle Daemon weapon lets you reroll wounds?

It comes from being poisoned.

 

 

Wow, okay I see that now. Question though, does this apply also to hellfire rounds, which are poisoned, or is it strictly poisoned CCWs?

As Gearhead said, it only applies against things that have a toughness equal to or lower than the strength of the attack. A lot of ranged poisoned weapons like hellfire rounds have very low strength, which means they won't get a re-roll against most opponents.

 

GW actually didn't catch that with Hellfire rounds, they FAQed it so Hellfires are strength 1 (ie, no re-rolls at all). If they were strength 4, they would outshine the other special ammo more than they already do.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Personally, I prefer Slaaneshi Lords, along with a Slaaneshi themed list, considering I'm going to be going against Marines and Tyranids soon, with the Noise Marines and their pinning weapons for Tyranids, and regular Chaos Marines with their extra initiative for other Marines. The latter is particularily devastating against Blood Angels and Space Wolves, who strike first when chargin but lose that advantage for the rest of the combat.

 

Anyways, Slaaneshi Lords ignore the high toughness of Tyranid monsters, and can eat their way aginst most Special Characters that are way too popular these days. Ah well. 4 + d6 power weapon instant death attacks that almost always continually strike first, even though you lose one attack after you've charged.

[the jeske]

Slaaneshi Lords ignore the high toughness of Tyranid monsters

no they dont. they ID , they dont wound on +2. in fact slanesh lords have huge problems with stuff like biker/TWC mounted HQs or MC.

[Master of fact]

I was playing my friend's Khorne berseker army yesterday. I was using my plague marine legion. (5 squad's of seven PM's ect) As it was a 3k battle i took 2 demon prince's and typhus ( we allowed 1 extra hq for a laugh) my typhus charged Lord Zhufor and 3 terminators, killing them all as i rolled 6 + my 4 attacks from charge, i went down to 1 wound. Was happy. Next turn Khârn was in charge range, he went 1st at higher I. Typhus just laughed all his attacks off. My turn to kill. I said to myself anything but a 1. Guess what i got. I lost the game 7 to 6 in annilation.

 

Thus demon weapon's can be awesome or game losing. But for me i will not take them unless it is a fun game with a buddy, serious play will be 2 princes with MoN,wings and warptime!!!

[Chimerical]

Slaaneshi Lords ignore the high toughness of Tyranid monsters

no they dont. they ID , they dont wound on +2. in fact slanesh lords have huge problems with stuff like biker/TWC mounted HQs or MC.

 

What qualifies as a 'huge problem'? Statistically he is likely to very likely to cause a wound to each of those things. The HQs will have to roll their invul or die (presuming no Saga of the Bear). Tyranid beasties like Tervigons, Trygons/Mawlocs, Tyrannofexes also have a high chance of being wounded despite T6, and no invuls.

 

That's better than any of the other daemon weapons against those HQs, and is about equal to the Nurgle weapon against Nids.

 

It's not perfect chances but if it was that would make it broken. But I reckon we've got good odds in most of those encounters. I can tell you it usually scares the opponent enough that they don't want any piece of your Slaanesh Lord.

[Chimerical]

double post. pardon me.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Slaaneshi Lords ignore the high toughness of Tyranid monsters

no they dont. they ID , they dont wound on +2. in fact slanesh lords have huge problems with stuff like biker/TWC mounted HQs or MC.

Um... The thing reads that they ignore toughness. That means they ignore high toughnes of Tyranid monsters. You don't roll to wound for a demolisher cannon shot do you?

[Xeonic]

It doesn't ignore toughness for wounding, it merely causes Instant Death to a successfully wounded target. ID rules are on P.26 of the BRB, and state "if a model suffers an unsaved wound from... it is killed outright and removed as a caualty" Note that this is an "unsaved wound", in other words to-hit and to-wound, as well as saves come first. The example on the page is a double toughness weapon, but a force weapon or other IDing weapon such as Sicarius' Tempest Blade or a Force Weapon or a Slaneshi Daemon Weapon operates much the same way, you roll to hit, then to wound(remember the slaneshi DW is only S4), take saves, and any models that took unsaved wounds take your instant death casualties, regardless of their toughness(though their toughness is only ignored for purposes of instant death, which is normally only inflicted by a weapon double S to his T).

 

A demolisher cannon is S10, it woulds up to T8 on a 2+. The "to-wound" chart is on p19 of the BRB. A demolisher may cause Instant Death to a non immune/non Eternal Warrior T5 or less model, but it has to wound the target first.

 

EDIT: You may be thinking Destroyer weapons from apoc. A strength D weapon automatically wounds any non AV target(causing Instant Death regardless of toughness) and automatically pens armor(with +1 on the damage chart). This is stated on P96 of the Apoc supplement under the Destroyer heading.

[the jeske]

Um... The thing reads that they ignore toughness. That means they ignore high toughnes of Tyranid monsters. You don't roll to wound for a demolisher cannon shot do you?

I think we are talking about two different things. slany demon weapons from our dex. have to hit [+4 against HQs and a lot of MC] then wound [normaly at +4 , against MC on +5/6] and then if the dude has any inv he makes them . now If SS didnt exist and if bikes/TWM didnt exist too , it would still be hard to be sure that you get enough of those +4/+4 wounds against a single guy.

they were ok for anti ork nob biker builds on steeds , but that was a long time ago.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

You don't roll to wound for a demolisher cannon shot do you?

 

I'm hoping YOU are. :lol:

[caboosebe]

Since the post seems pretty active, I would like to throw in a question regarding Daemon Weapons and Gear. It's topic related, kind off.

 

Now suppose (just imagine) that all Daemon Weapons are of equal value.

What would you give your Lord depending on the mark? Would you give him terminator armor, and if not would you give him a daemonic steed?

So: Mark of None/Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch/Slaanesh Terminator/PowerArmor ==> if PowerArmor Daemonic Steed/not

[the jeske]

he would get wings . like every other chaos HQ.

[Hiro_Protagonist]

Since the post seems pretty active, I would like to throw in a question regarding Daemon Weapons and Gear. It's topic related, kind off.

 

Now suppose (just imagine) that all Daemon Weapons are of equal value.

What would you give your Lord depending on the mark? Would you give him terminator armor, and if not would you give him a daemonic steed?

So: Mark of None/Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch/Slaanesh Terminator/PowerArmor ==> if PowerArmor Daemonic Steed/not

 

Tzeentch, Power Armour, Bike (for the toughness)

[caboosebe]

Let me refrase that question. I'm going to make all chaos lords for modeling purposes. So a unmarked lord, Khorne, Tzeentch, Slaanesh and Nurgle.

So I would like to know for evry lord (all will have a daemon weapon) if you would give them power armor or terminator armor. And if you would consider giving them a daemonic steed. I'm looking on the forum about pro's and cons on Steeds, but can't seem to find a post.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Let me refrase that question. I'm going to make all chaos lords for modeling purposes. So a unmarked lord, Khorne, Tzeentch, Slaanesh and Nurgle.

So I would like to know for evry lord (all will have a daemon weapon) if you would give them power armor or terminator armor. And if you would consider giving them a daemonic steed. I'm looking on the forum about pro's and cons on Steeds, but can't seem to find a post.

 

I'm a conversion whore, I admit, but I have a Lord of almost every configuration as a "just in case". Wing Lords, Bike Lords, Termie Lords, foot-PA Lords, they all have their role depending on how I build the list.

[minigun762]

Let me refrase that question. I'm going to make all chaos lords for modeling purposes. So a unmarked lord, Khorne, Tzeentch, Slaanesh and Nurgle.

So I would like to know for evry lord (all will have a daemon weapon) if you would give them power armor or terminator armor. And if you would consider giving them a daemonic steed. I'm looking on the forum about pro's and cons on Steeds, but can't seem to find a post.

 

Khorne Lord = Power Armor, Mount, BloodFeeder

Frankly its a bad build but it would be fun to play in a casual game as the mount solves some of the issues with the Bloodfeeder

 

Tzeentch = Power Armor, Bike, Deathscreamer

This actually makes you into a well balanced unit. You have mobility and increased durability thanks to the Biker (T5) and MoT (4++) plus you have a decent mid range weapon and some decent HtH ability.

 

Slaanesh = Power Armor, Mount, Blissgiver

A faster version of the Khorne Lord, you get an extra attack to help land those insta-death strikes and you have an increased threat range.

 

Nurgle = Terminator Armor, Plaguebringer

Tough, slow and deadly. Its a very fluffy build that will look good. Just don't try to make it look exactly like Typhus, so maybe go with a non-scythe weapon

 

Undivided = Power Armor, Wings, Daemon Weapon

I like to think of this guy as a reflection of the Loyalist Jump Pack HQs but with a nasty DW and Wings instead.

[Xeonic]

From a cursory glance at the daemonic steeds, the only one that's remotely attractive is the disc of Tzeentch, as you could put the IC with a group of raptors, where his Deathscreamer shooty attack also could be helped by being more mobile.

Nurgle could be okay, in a Land Raider, +1 wound would make an already tough nurgle lord even tougher to take out in CC. Poor land raiders in general make this a relatively bad choice.

Slaanesh makes him count as cavalry, but since there are no other cavalry in a csm list he's all of a sudden very difficult to keep alive. You could join him to a footslogging squad as a large threat range countercharge element, but that makes for a poor use of points IMO.

Khorne is probably the worst as it doesn't count as cavalry, but makes him untransportable, though I could see him working in a foot list leading some slogging berserkers(not that a foot khorne list would be any good)

 

On a side note, a mounted Khorne lord with bloodfeeder has massive potential for slaughtering power with 3 base, +1mok, +1 mount, +1 on the charge, and 2d6 daemon weapon attacks, for a maximum of 18 attacks at S5. Shame there's no way to deliver it to the enemy, he doesn't have the charge range of cavalry and he can't be put into a transport. Well, that and he costs 170+ pts. Still, it would for sure be fun to plonk down on the table for a fun "basement" game.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I'm a conversion whore, I admit, but I have a Lord of almost every configuration as a "just in case". Wing Lords, Bike Lords, Termie Lords, foot-PA Lords, they all have their role depending on how I build the list.

I have the same problem/advantage, Khestra. And Apocalypse benefits from the sheer killing power, doesn't it :)

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I'm a conversion whore, I admit, but I have a Lord of almost every configuration as a "just in case". Wing Lords, Bike Lords, Termie Lords, foot-PA Lords, they all have their role depending on how I build the list.

I have the same problem/advantage, Khestra. And Apocalypse benefits from the sheer killing power, doesn't it :)

 

It's been so long since I've done an Apoc game some of these guys have never taken the field. I may have to remedy that. ^_^