Anti-ravenwing tactics

[morehardcore]

toay i was thrashed by a superior ravenwing player and i am wondering a way to beat a more fast a mobile army, my usaul rhino bunker was defeated by his multimeltas and i was unable to counter hi pure speed and small sqauds by assaulting any tips?

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I thought you wanted Tactics for him because you stomped him :wacko:

 

How many points do you play at?

What were you forces compositions?

 

On a generalist note:

GH have short reach. Whilst they do well against mêlée armies, by shooting them to bits or shooty armies, by chopping them to bits, they lack the speed or the range to fight those naughty evasive types.

 

I think DE will trump SW, generally speaking, but that is for another post ;)

 

Range = Speed. In many cases.

 

Long Fangs are golden for you. ML ignore his armour and insta-kill attack bikes. They also do a good job against Speeders.

 

Annihilation games are tricky because he has no reason to engage with you. Objective games are better for you.

Like the lion waiting at the watering hole.

 

What works as a lure when you don't have objectives?

 

I know many Wolf players don't bring double Autocannon dreads. They smile and proudly point to the afore mentioned Fangs. Anything can kill Infantry. Not everything can kill AV.

Ravenwing do not bring LRAT [long range anti tank] weapons like LC and ML. They bring the ferocious MM, which has a weakness. It must come close to engage the target. Your Dread can ignore those piddly HB shots that might be killing your Fangs.

Drats cries your foe, and come close to deliver a MM shot. Because your Dread is deep in your zone, he is actually coming close to your GHs to do so.

 

The Dread [called a Rifleman] kills AV and Infantry well, as do the Fangs, so you are not really missing out on anything by including one.

 

Razors bring HWs that is perhaps the only real weakness of GH. Perhaps some lasplasBacks will be good to you.

 

I wouldn't bother with Swift or Sky claws. If you try to engage in a shoot out with him, you'll lose. His are better than yours.

If you turbo-boost 24" to get right in his face so you can assault him, he'll use all of his army to cut down your isolated unit, and thank you for it.

 

For a while longer, SW Typhoons will also do well, with equal speed and better MLs, you can engage him with reach and speed :)

 

I thought you wanted Tactics for him because you stomped him :blush:

 

How many points do you play at?

What were you forces compositions?

 

On a generalist note:

GH have short reach. Whilst they do well against mêlée armies, by shooting them to bits or shooty armies, by chopping them to bits, they lack the speed or the range to fight those naughty evasive types.

 

I think DE will trump SW, generally speaking, but that is for another post ;)

 

Range = Speed. In many cases.

 

Long Fangs are golden for you. ML ignore his armour and insta-kill attack bikes. They also do a good job against Speeders.

 

Annihilation games are tricky because he has no reason to engage with you. Objective games are better for you.

Like the lion waiting at the watering hole.

 

What works as a lure when you don't have objectives?

 

I know many Wolf players don't bring double Autocannon dreads. They smile and proudly point to the afore mentioned Fangs. Anything can kill Infantry. Not everything can kill AV.

Ravenwing do not bring LRAT [long range anti tank] weapons like LC and ML. They bring the ferocious MM, which has a weakness. It must come close to engage the target. Your Dread can ignore those piddly HB shots that might be killing your Fangs.

Drats cries your foe, and come close to deliver a MM shot. Because your Dread is deep in your zone, he is actually coming close to your GHs to do so.

 

The Dread [called a Rifleman] kills AV and Infantry well, as do the Fangs, so you are not really missing out on anything by including one.

 

Razors bring HWs that is perhaps the only real weakness of GH. Perhaps some lasplasBacks will be good to you.

 

I wouldn't bother with Swift or Sky claws. If you try to engage in a shoot out with him, you'll lose. His are better than yours.

If you turbo-boost 24" to get right in his face so you can assault him, he'll use all of his army to cut down your isolated unit, and thank you for it.

 

For a while longer, SW Typhoons will also do well, with equal speed and better MLs, you can engage him with reach and speed :angry:

 

+++

 

Don't be put off by him beating you.

He is, at the moment, better than you.

He also has plenty of experience fighting MEq, whilst you wont have much against such sneaky armies.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Rifleman Dread costs 125

5 Fangs + 4ML costs 115

 

a tlAC shot versus AV10.

8/9 x 3/6 x 2/6 = 48/324 or 14.8%

 

a ML shot versus AV10

4/6 x 4/6 x 2/6 = 32/216 or 14.8%

 

Whilst the Dread doesn't kill MEq as well as Krak missiles, he is better against save 4+ stuff and save 2+ stuff. I don't bother figuring out blast templates,it is too fiddly and filled with assumptions.

 

The Dread can't be hurt by bolters or Tau rifles and Heavy bolters.

 

The Dread can trundle about the TT.

 

They're good, but Wolves don't seem to like them.*shrugs shoulders*

[morehardcore]

i did bring some long fangs but some :cussy leadership test saw them gone on turn 3 (he pulled the reserve everything go second trick /grumble.)

 

i dont have the elites slots for dreads as i pack wolf gaurd and wolf scouts instead but ill see what happens

 

btw we played 1750

[Marshal Wilhelm]

i did bring some long fangs but some :cussy leadership test saw them gone on turn 3 (he pulled the reserve everything go second trick /grumble.)

 

i dont have the elites slots for dreads as i pack wolf gaurd and wolf scouts instead but ill see what happens

 

btw we played 1750

 

Oh that is plenty of points. I play 1500.

 

Your scouts will have a hard time against him, being foot and all.

 

Are you using 3 ELITES?

 

Reserve everything is standard form for Mobiles.

You'll get used to it.

 

Have you your list for us to see? That'll help, otherwise the scope is too broad.

[morehardcore]

so yeah here is my list its an all comers list as im not a big fan of list taloring:

(note this is my regular 1500 list i had to add a few units to reach 1750 im not sure what exact upgrades and such i handed out)

 

rune priest

MH

LL

Chooser

Wolf tooth

 

rune priest

MH

TW

Chooser

Wolf tooth

 

Elites

Wolf gaurd x4 powerfist + combimelta (go with GH and wolf scouts)

 

Wolf scoutsx5

melta gun

power weapon

mark of the wolfen

 

Lone wolf

Termie

Thunderhammer

Stormshield

 

Troops

GHx9 meltagun wolf standard mark of the wolfen rhino

 

GHx8 Meltagun wolf standard mark of the wolfen rhino

 

GHx8 Meltagun wolf standard mark of the wolfen rhino

 

GHx5 (no wolf gaurd) razorback tllc

 

heavy

Long fangsx6 MLx5

[Stormbrow II]

I was wondering why you were having so much trouble with the Ravenwing but seeing your list I can understand. You don't have anything that can cover a lot of ground and rush him in one turn: the Rhino squads have to sit still for a turn before they can get into combat, allowing your opponent to back off or press his attacks elsewhere. You either need to add them or get more firepower to pound his units and get your slow-moving combat units into position to prevent things getting away.

 

Ravenwing fall down when you tarpit them as they can't fall back like regular Marines due to Fearless. With only one squad of Fangs you can't pummel his Speeders from afar and have to rely on the Rune Priests and their random number of shots, which you can't use if you move 12".

 

I'd put in a second squad of them. To do this I recommend you:

 

Drop the Wolf Tooth on a Priest, the Power Weapon and Mark on the Scouts and 4 Grey Hunters (to bring them to 7 each).

 

That'll give you enough for 2 units of 5 Long Fangs with 4 Missiles by taking one from the 6 man squad. You can park a Rune Priest with them to throw out Living Lightning to augment their firepower. If you've any points left over then buy a pet wolf for the Lone Wolf so that he doesn't get shot down so easily.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I was wondering why you were having so much trouble with the Ravenwing but seeing your list I can understand. You don't have anything that can cover a lot of ground and rush him in one turn: the Rhino squads have to sit still for a turn before they can get into combat, allowing your opponent to back off or press his attacks elsewhere. You either need to add them or get more firepower to pound his units and get your slow-moving combat units into position to prevent things getting away.

 

Ravenwing fall down when you tarpit them as they can't fall back like regular Marines due to Fearless. With only one squad of Fangs you can't pummel his Speeders from afar and have to rely on the Rune Priests and their random number of shots, which you can't use if you move 12".

 

I'd put in a second squad of them. To do this I recommend you:

 

Agreed.

 

Not enough shooty.

I bring the equivalent of that at 1500 pts, and I wouldn't consider myself going overboard either.

 

Take another Fangs pack. Drop the Scouts and some nick-nacks if needed.

[Godhead]

I couldn't get long fangs to work for me for a bit. I too found that one pack isn't enough. They just packed a big target on their head and they went down fast when focused (even in cover). I started bringing two packs and after a game or two it was night and day.

 

I'm apparently a speed freak. I like fast elements in my army. The scouts are ok, but they are unreliable. If I bring one, id prefer to bring two. I love speeders, they are a wonderful support weapon on a fast platform.