Predators vs obliteratos

[khurdur]

In what way are our obliterators better than lascannon predators? I usually use oblits for tank-busting as they are about our only good option for

blowing up transports, but one lascannon pred for 15 points more offers more and more accurate lascannon shots than a pair of obliterators....

We never use the flamers on the oblits, suicide DS and close range melta-shots aren't worth it for a 35 point rhino, plasma cannons can kill 3-4 MEQs, a lascannon can also kill about 2-3 MEQs, almost the same, and the pred clearly has the advantage against transports.

 

Sooo 2 predators would be better as hvy support....our list lacks anti-tank, and ALL lists mechanise in the 5th ed...we face usually form 5 to 15 vehicles on the table against anyone except 'nids.

[Hellios]

That depends on how much armour you have else where... lets take my Eldar as an example... you have 4 rhinos and 2 preds... well I have a boat load of S6 stuff that will go into your rhinos... With my S8-10 stuff... I guess I'll fire it at your preds... which will result I would hope in any of the following... can't move or shoot... you now kill less than a oblit (that is still alive...), immobilised... not the best result but depending on terrain could be enough... weapon destroyed... now you start losing fire power.... even better if you are immobile...... or destroyed hah what will your fancy lascannons do now! (well same as a dead oblit I guess...) I've now taken down your long range dakka... and slowed down your infantry... I can now move in circles around you making surgical cuts where and whenever I wish...

 

Oblits on the other hand can be useful as long as they are alive... and with cover they are easier to hide (AKA block LoS) or at least get that 4+ should I negate your 2+...

[khurdur]

a lgiht flurry of S8 or S9 will also kill the obliterators....a clever opponent will target them and leave the rest of the CSM army without a leg to stand on,

can still fight later on even if stunned/shaken, and AV13 on the front end should keep it fairly safe, even a lascannon needs a 5+ to penetrate...

while it wounds an oblit on 2+ and wastes him if he fails his cover save....the oblits are easier to kill....

[the jeske]

we realy have to do every 2-3 months ?

ok . first of all it is easier to give 2 oblits cover then 2 preds. you can rhino wall oblits you cant rhino wall a pred . an oblit even if his friend dies still is shoting , a shaken or stuned pred is bit costly LoS blocker.

 

and then there is the fact that oblits are more deadly against deep strikers or teq[ 4 twink linked plasma vs 3 unmovable lascanons. or 3 las vs 2 plasma canons] , they are also better against horde [preds kind of a suck against those].

they can reposition and still fire , a pred moved is no longer a 3 lascanon platform [that is not counting the chance of geting stuned or shaken].

 

 

can still fight later on even if stunned/shaken, and AV13 on the front end should keep it fairly safe, even a lascannon needs a 5+ to penetrate...

how are you enjoying your melta and spam RL in 5th ed ?

[minigun762]

In light of absolute firepower, the Predators do win. Take the Combi-Predator for example. 2 Lascannons and 2 Autocannon shots will beat out the 2 Lascannons from Obliterators anyday of the week if they're able to fire.

 

I think the main issues aren't the maximum potential firepower but the respective levels of flexibility, durability and mobility.

 

For most people, Obliterators make a better balanced unit as they have more flexibility (able to shoot other weapons like Plasma Cannons), more average mobility (can move and shoot to full effect) and at least as good if not superior durability (it gets hard to judge 2+/5++ vs AV13 in cover/out of cover, against Melta etc etc).

 

My stance right now is that if you take the exact same list and in one list, you use Predators and the other list you use Obliterators, that the difference between the two would be fairly insignificant in the long term.

[khurdur]

yes but we miss out on anti-tank as a codex...no fast melta

I play against BT, SW, SM...

They usually have 2x Preds with lascannons, and some attack bikes or land-speeders

or riflemen dreads...My 6 oblits are usually blown to pieces because they are my only antitank...including preds

myself should be better...I am consistently outshot...my rhinos are usually easily destroyed...my oblits killed...

 

2 predators with 6 lascannons(2 TL) and say 2-3 Atk bikes or 2-3 Landspeeders w/ multimelta attack all oblits,

by turn two they are all dead. 6 lascannon shots aren't enough....and them my transports are money for jam and my army is

pretty much outmaneuvered...

We just can't compete for firepower!

I mean 6 lascannons can't do much to 4 trukks w/a 4+ cover save...

[lord gunthar]

Just thought I would add this in, I do agree with the jeske and minigun762 though.

 

I would never consider taking predators in a chaos list unless I was using plasma cannon dreads, as otherwise it become too difficult to kill meq/teq.

 

Note: I am not saying that you shouldn't use obliterators, they will do better 99% of the time.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

It's been forever since my Preds have had the dust blown off them. Same goes with the Vindi and the Havocs (though I did field Havocs recently so their clock went back to zero). As jeske put it, the melta spam and the massed IG lascannon symphonies have rendered my Preds into costly wrecks and craters. It's become much more efficient to just hide Oblits in cover as stationary long-range weapons platforms and counter-DS detail.

[minigun762]

yes but we miss out on anti-tank as a codex...no fast melta

 

Thats why the 2x Meltagun/Power Fist CSM or PM squad is the standard loadout, to help balance it out.

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

I play a ton of chaos players that all take copious amounts of Obliterators.

with that being said, I almost always run x3 combi-preds autocannon/lascannon spons.

 

And I've never lost a direct shootout involving strictly predators vs obliterators. and that my friends is a fact.

 

edit: one thing to add however, obliterators are incredibly more versatile being able to fire almost every weapon in the codex.

[Cosmic Archmage]

Every critical point about this debate has been made. For my part, I will simply insist on the fact that the long range firepower preds provide is much greater than those of Obliterators. My experience running 2-3 combi-preds has been pretty successful.

 

If it was not for losing the ability to fire on the move, I'd say they'd be a better buy than Oblits, especially with the amount of melta your typical CSM list provides (Right, I can't speak for myself since I play pure Thousand Sons, but you get the point). But this is not the case, hence the superiority of Obliterators.

[Muller]

Why even get stuck on predators, go for Vindicators. They blow everything in their paths into oblivion...

[maverike_prime]

just tossing my 2 kraks in here. in most of my lists I run one pred (some times 2 depending on list size) and 2 or 3 Oblits (again, depending on size). I take 1/3 of my army with the predator and use it as static fire point, only moving if I need to. The other 2/3 are my mobile force with the oblits on the outside or inner ring depending on how the game goes. The mobile force works to close up one side of the table and force the survivors of the enemy onto the jaws of my static fire base. The Oblits work well here because I can use them to fill in holes in my attack plan as they develop plus they can still move and shoot even heavy weapons. That being said I must point out that predators and Oblits are NOT the same thing. While they can fill each others roles based on load out, do not confuse them. A pred is a tank, oblits are infantry. Different rules, different abilities.

[minigun762]

One thing to consider, the 3x Lascannon Predator is the only variant that Chaos gets at the same price as the Loyalists.

Our Dakka Predator and Combi-Predator are 15 and 10 points more expensive respectively, for no damn good reason!

 

Can't say its a tactical choice but its a choice based on principle. :P

[Brother RedAxe]

I use both oblits and a pred in my lists 2 oblits and a twin las heavy bolter combi plas pred. I have never had a problem keeping them both alive and killing and my troops units are rhino rushing up and at least one unit of NM's standing back with a blastmaster and a full squad of termies with combi plas and 2 reapers bring up the rear and handle DSers and any armor that might come my way. I took a good lesson playing Tau and good tank busting methods and they seem to work well aginst MEQ lists. I know I'm doing things strangely but I try to run points allowing 3 10 man squads of termies. To make a long story short I spread out the threats and make them choose what to kill before it kils them.

[Cosmic Archmage]

One thing to consider, the 3x Lascannon Predator is the only variant that Chaos gets at the same price as the Loyalists.

Our Dakka Predator and Combi-Predator are 15 and 10 points more expensive respectively, for no damn good reason!

 

Can't say its a tactical choice but its a choice based on principle. :D

 

I'm not sure about c:sm and ba, but I am confident that our combi-pred is 5 points less than the space wolves one.

[Chengar Qordath]

One thing to consider, the 3x Lascannon Predator is the only variant that Chaos gets at the same price as the Loyalists.

Our Dakka Predator and Combi-Predator are 15 and 10 points more expensive respectively, for no damn good reason!

 

Can't say its a tactical choice but its a choice based on principle. :D

 

I'm not sure about c:sm and ba, but I am confident that our combi-pred is 5 points less than the space wolves one.

No, it's not. C:SM and C:SW both pay ten points less for combi-predators than Chaos does.

 

Blood Angels, on the other hand, do pay 5 points more than Chaos, but their Predators are fast, which more than makes up for it.

[minigun762]

I would really love a Fast Predator, it turns it into the tank its suppose to be, not the vehicular Dev/Havoc Squad it is now.

[Cosmic Archmage]

Damn, I stand corrected, I have no idea why I was so sure I read that from the sw codex. : /