Equipping a Command Squad?

[Ravenfeld]

There are so many options and routes to take that I figured I would get a general idea of how you guys like to build yours! I know it usually would revolve around the theme of the army, but I just want a general feel of what works for everyone and I can make my own decisions from there.

 

Thank you!

[Brother-Chaplain Gaius]

Ok you understand that there are a zillion optimal loadouts for a zillion different situations. With that being said I always run an all comers list and my command squad most frequently consists of bare bones bolt pistol, chainsword equipped veterans with a company banner. 130pts bam

 

captain with them is some relic blade, stormshield variant as well.

 

honorable mentions of course are the meltagunner(s) and company champion.

[Ravenfeld]

Well allow me to go into more detail. I am running an Iron Hands list that is revolving around the use of energy weapons (for the most part). I was struck with the inspiration to use my Space Hulk terminators (most of them) as a "counts as" command squad for whatever Captain I end up using in a given fight. Yeah they will only have a 3+ Armor save, but it will look awesome and be some what fluffy as well. So I will need to do some conversion work to make them geared properly which is the whole reason I made this post. So how might you suggest loading them out for a list that is more shooty and less assaulty?

 

Thanks!

[Xeonic]

My quad plas command squad does alright for itself. Apothecary w/Bolter and 4x plasma gunners in a rhino. I pair them with a relic blade combi melta captain or Sicarius, or just let them do their own thing while the captain leads another squad. 175 pts and puts out a fair volume of anti MC, TEQ, MEQ, or light AV fire.

 

My CC squad also does ok, usually equipped with a Champ, Fist w/Standard, bodybag(BP&CCW or BP and storm shield), bodybag(also optional storm shield and maybe a meltabomb), Apothecary w BP&CCW. 2 guys to blow off to low AP or high strength fire, and the whole shebang costs 170-200pts depending on the storm shields you decide to take. Not enough to really go toe to toe with an uber hammer unit, but plenty to mulch whole squads of basic troops, where you can leverage your FnP saves. I stick them in a razorback with TLHB or just a rhino for friendly games. They sometimes do surprisingly well.

 

Command squads are like a lot of things in codex space marines, they can fill a bunch of roles with a little points investment, but it's easy to get carried away. My rule of thumb is to never kit them out to be more expensive than a squad of termies. As Space Marines are better at shooting than CC, 2-4 special weapons never goes astray, be they flamers, melta, or plasmaguns.

 

I can't see how you'd fit the SH termies in, I just used mine as er...termies. ;)

When I feel like bringing out my tac termies I generally field them as a 10x man squad(6 of whom are converted SH termies) with 2x assault cannon, usually lead by a Libby.

[Brother_Fatiswon]

eh..old fluffy, points that Vet sgt of the iron hand worn/ were fused into suits of TDA armor. as for a command squad, you'd have to run, all Storm bolters/Power fists x4 in anything beyond "friendly" games, and even that would be asking something.. but if you didn't use and terminator squads, and based all your Vet Sgt for your tacticals on the smaller 25mm bases and had the wargear, that was on the model (PF+SB or SB+PW) that would be "more" in line. and more acceptable.

 

as for load outs, i'd say one of 3: spam either, Plasma guns, Stormshields, or Flamers.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

As a modelling project rather than real squad for use -- too expensive -- I made an Iron Hands squad with four veterans with plasma guns and thunder hammers with a apothecary and a relic blade/combiplasma captain. Lots of high strength shots from both shooting and close combat, but really costly in points and thus not all that feasible. Though I'm going to try it in some friendly games eventually.

[AyanamiKun]

I like the 4x Plasma Gun Command Squad. It's quite expensive though :\

[ghosty]

For my command squad I run 3 vets with a single LC each, bolt pistol and melta bombs. a bit expensive but very deadly combined with my relic blade captain and a chaplain, I usually play around 1750, so a tricked out command squad is doable and it still leaves plenty of points for good troops and support.

[ShinyRhino]

I also run a 4x plasmagun squad from time to time. They work wonders when parked in a defensive position and allowed to fire out at will.

 

I'm also asembling a biker command squad, with a banner, apothecary, champion, and a pair of basic veterans with pistol/chainsword. Relatively cheap way to get a mass of attacks alongside my biker captain and his relic blade and artificer armor. I really like the Morale-rerolling bubble of the company standard, as well.

[DAwarrior43]

I used to run a Captain with combi-flamer, arti armor, and a relic blade with a command squad with apoth, champ, 1 lightning claw, and 2 more power weapons out of a land raider. It pretty much messed anything up it would hit. But it was a bit of a point sink which probably could have been spent better elsewhere.

[The Normish]

I run mine with three Power Fists, Banner, bolt pistols, and a Company Champion. I haven't played it yet, but they sure look threatening.

[Br0ther Rafen]

I have a friend who runs a flamer bike squad which uses 3 flamers, meltagun and a champ with Korsarro. Ive versed it a few times and they are REALLY good at killing marines with three flame templates, and makes a painful charge if the flamers dont kill everything

[Validar]

As with a lot of things in the space marine codex, the command squad isn't really uber, so I think the guiding rule needs to be that you play with the minis you think are cool and in the style you'd like to play.

 

I personally run it as a champion, a powerweapon, a powerfist, a banner and apothecary - yeah, they've all got something, but heck they're veterans! Even more, they're the marines closest to the captain, his military advisors and honor guard!

 

They work fairly well even against specialists. The problem is that terminators (either kind) is significantly better than they are. Sure they've got no FNP, but 2+/5+ works just aswell, if not better, considering all the powerweapons in CC these days. On top of this they've all got power weapons, power fists or thunder hammers/storm shields (!)

 

In all: They're a fun and fluffy unit. I suggest not giving a helm to some of them, since that allows you to switch them out as sargeants when you feel like that, allowing you a little diversity in your lists.

 

If you plan to use the space hulk minis, take terminators instead, they're better represented on the model ;)

[Kronk]

My quad plas command squad does alright for itself. Apothecary w/Bolter and 4x plasma gunners in a rhino

 

I've had tons of fun with this in a drop pod. Drop them in the opponent's back yard along with a Dreadnought in his own drop pod. It doesn't survive long, but it kills space marines, dead. I'm going to try this in a razorback, soon.

[DarkGuard]

I agree with the quad plasma squad, it can be amazing. Mine decimated a Grey Hunter unit in one turn of shooting, was a quite a thing to watch. Points wise, it's pretty good, however, the only thing I have against it is low numbers. When you start taking wounds your loosing either your FnP which makes the quad plasma squad so attractive in the first place, or your loosing your plasma guns, making the squad less effective. Therefore, considering I mount mine up, I tend to use them against a squad I really don't like and then expect them to die.

[Gothical]

I'm torn between making a quad-Melta Command Squad (or 3 and a Power Fist) - it's like the Quad-Plasma, but more fluffy for my Salamanders; and one that I call "I don't like you...my friends don't like you" that's a Relic Blade-wielding Captain, 3 Power Weapons, and a Power Fist + Storm Shield. Throwing a Librarian into that squad would also be mean (though expensive).

 

The latter isn't actually *too* expensive, and would carve through squads and monsters like anything. The reason I am considering it, is that Tactical Squads are more optimised for shooting than combat, so need a hefty CC unit to support them - Terminators either Deepstrike or require a Land Raider, making them a little unpredictable in their supporting role (and may be needed elsewhere on the table), Assault Squads lack the heavy punch to quickly rip through problematic units, and Vanguard suffer the same problems of Assault Squads unless they are prohibitively expensive.

 

I know internet wisdom states that you should either take a ranged Command Squad or a Biker one, but I think the combat squad might have some potential - being able to Sweeping Advance (and the Captain with I5) is a massive advantage, as is not requiring a Land Raider if they are fielded in a supporting role (rather than an outright combat unit).

 

4 Flamers in a Heavy Flamer Razorback/Redeemer (and season with CC weapons to taste) can be hilarious - though it suffers against monsters and vehicles, it can incinerate hordes, Marine- and Terminator-equivalents for a very small price - whether it is needed in a codex full of anti-infantry options is another matter, but it sounds like fun.

 

What do you think? Viable (the CC build)? How would you arrange a squad designed to support some Tactical Squads?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

The problem of equipping a Command Squad for CC duties is that C:SM simply is not designed to provide a decent CC punch. If you want melee-centric units that are actually really good at they do, you have to shell out for Terminators or buckle down and pay out the nose for points on Honor Guard or Vanguard Vets. So rather than try to dig ourselves out of that hole for the umpteenth time, I suggest that you concentrate your Command Squad's build into filling whatever shooting gaps your Tactical Squads have.

 

For instance, a popular build for Tactical Squad weaponry (especially amongst Salamanders) in my area is a flamer and multimelta. Between the flamer and bolters, this provides good horde control and the multimelta gives it a solid anti-tank punch. However, this sort of unit will have troubles facing down monstrous creatures or large Terminator squads. To help correct this deficiency, take a Command Squad with four plasma guns.

 

I, for example, run all my Tactical Squads with a plasma gun and a plasma cannon, with a combi-melta on the Sergeant. That one melta shot puts me at a disadvantage against anything with an armor value over 12 which is everything except Rhinos, Razorbacks, and the lightest skimmers; but the concentration of plasma shots is an equilizer against Termies and the blast from the plasma cannon provides some measure of horde control. My deficiency therefore lies in heavy anti-tank power, so a Command Squad with four melta guns fits the bill.

 

Bikes are a solid investment for a Command Squad regardless of their gun-loadout; the T5 alone, combined with FnP, makes them sturdy. Providing Relentless for plasma guns and the twin-linked bolters are just bonuses (boni?), and they basically double the range of a melta gun.

 

If you really must build a melee-centric Command Squad, I suggest that you concentrate your strengths -- four sets of power weapons and bolt pistols (the banner's probably a good buy, too, though I'm still not sure if the Company Champ. is worth it) and melta bombs around the table. Let your Captain with Relic Blade and Storm Shield provide the heavy hitting power to knock down MCs, with the Command Squad fellas providing the mass of attacks necessary to carve through infantry.

[Xeonic]

If you're taking a power weapon there's no reason -not- to take the company champion, as he costs the same as one, has WS5 and an invulnerable save basically for free(though this also costs you the ability to upgrade him further, it's worth it IMO, he's already got a good solid wargear set). Lightning claws are also strictly better, vs WS4 MEQ PW have 4 attacks on the charge and cause on average 1 average wound(2 hits, 1 wound, no save) apiece, where a single claw gets 1.12 w/ 3 attacks(1.5 hits, 1.12 wounds, no saves).

Without a charge bonus, the numbers are .75 on the claws(2a, 1 hit, .75 wounds), and .75(3A, 1.5 hit, .75 wounds) on the sword, plus the claw will generally(I say generally only because I haven't tried all combinations, I'm fairly certain it will always be better on average) be better vs targets with toughness higher than T4.

It's also worth noting that the WS5 champ will deal on average 1.34 wounds(4A, 2.68 hit) on the charge vs MEQ(and 1 without the charge, 3A, 2.01 hits), slightly better than a lightning claw, which is all due to his WS more than anything.

 

Normal power weapons are more of a gambler's weapon(also they have rule of cool, they look awesome) as the damage potential is slightly higher, though the average wounds dealt is better with a claw due to rerolls(and the fact that you lose half your hits to toughness rolling when fighting T4).

 

EDIT: Corrected maths, whoops. :devil: