"The Core"

[A D-B]

I can only imagine what is stewing around in ADB's skulljunk in regards to the "new duds" acquired from the Salamander elite. I can't wait to read Blood Reaver to hopefully find out.

 

Techniiiiiically, "The Core" is set right after Blood Reaver, so it'll be in Void Stalker where the new gear starts to show up. But it's intensely useful stuff, natch. And I have plans - especially for the assault cannon. Oh, yes.

 

 

Imagine this, Talos and the rest of First Claw suit up in their rank-spanking new suits of Terminator armor. Cue much excitement on how badass they will be. Uzas is already painting the helmet of his suit with the bloody handprint, Cyrion is doing his tears thing on the helmet, etc, etc.

 

And then with anticipation Talos activates the suit, for a moment he stretches, getting used to the feel of Tactical Dreadnought Armor, feelign the immense power at his hands and then.........................

 

The gauntlet malfunctions. Cue much anguish from Talos. The curse of the faulty gauntlet haunts him still.

 

Soul Hunter 3: One Night Lord's quest to get a functioning gauntlet, again.

 

Hello, Gree. My name is Brett Duckley and I represent my client Aaron Dembski-Bowden. I would sincerely like to purchase the rights to this storyline for use in his upcoming novel range.

[Gree]

Imagine this, Talos and the rest of First Claw suit up in their rank-spanking new suits of Terminator armor. Cue much excitement on how badass they will be. Uzas is already painting the helmet of his suit with the bloody handprint, Cyrion is doing his tears thing on the helmet, etc, etc.

 

And then with anticipation Talos activates the suit, for a moment he stretches, getting used to the feel of Tactical Dreadnought Armor, feelign the immense power at his hands and then.........................

 

The gauntlet malfunctions. Cue much anguish from Talos. The curse of the faulty gauntlet haunts him still.

 

Soul Hunter 3: One Night Lord's quest to get a functioning gauntlet, again.

 

Hello, Gree. My name is Brett Duckley and I represent my client Aaron Dembski-Bowden. I would sincerely like to purchase the rights to this storyline for use in his upcoming novel range.

 

Oh, sure, anything to help with the brain teaser for any oddly named sequels that might occur.

 

Poor Talos, his life is so bleak. What has he done to disturb the machine spirits?

 

Anyway, thanks. I can't wait to read Blood Reaver, I bet it will be awesome.

[RapatoR]

Contrary to many opinins expressed here I agree with Candleshoes, he expressed my opinion quite exactly. One thing that Talos might represent is a symbol of current chaos players missing their Legions. He wants to stick to the old traditions and tactics want glorious days of his Legion united back. But their leader is rather void battle expert influented by chaos god and all around him seem to not care and forget old manners/tactics too, Legion (and even company) is dissolved, their resources are poor and they have to fight for mere survival. As if it wasnt enough they are thrown against enemy that cant feel fear - ergo they loose their Legion rules. (Did you ever wondered what would happen to AL if they couldnt use drity tricks or infiltrate/IW if they couldnt use heavy machinry or lay a siege/WE if they couldnt directly assault, what they would do?)

[Brother Nihm]

Well, "The Core" is a short story after all. It's pretty brief, too, but I really enjoyed the dialogue and action. There's not really any heavy character development at all, but in cinematic terms, I'd consider "Soul Hunter" comparable to a full length film, and "The Core" more like a teaser trailer for "Blood Reaver."

Except that The Core takes place after Blood Reaver. More on that later.

 

Shadow Knight is also a short story (~12 pages), yet it has the characters be more Night Lords than Soul Hunter, The Core and Throne of Lies combined, that is what I'm yearning for. It has so much potential and simply put, rocks. I really wish Blood Reaver will be like this.

 

I am a bit surprised Nihm, my impression from your review of "Soul Hunter" was that you liked it...has this changed?

Not at all, Soul Hunter is well written and deserves a strong score like I gave in my review, but like I said, if you remove the few references to Konrad and Nostramo, then the characters (as they are in that book) become akin to generic chaos marines in terms of what defines them.

 

I think I've read all the stories in "Fear The Alien" except "Prometheus Requiem." I enjoyed all so far except "Faces" which I found extremely difficult to get through the first half because of the bizarre, surreal tone of the narration.

I too struggled with that one, it was only because I've read Farrer's other works that I struggled through it and didn't skip it entirely. It was (sort of) worth it in the end. :lol:

 

I'm not expecting to like "Prometheus Requiem"; I really disliked Nick Kyme's other Salamanders short story because his characters come across to me as petty, selfish and frankly not very appealing compared to other Space Marine fictional characters (Talos, Loken, heck even Uriel Ventris!)

Yeah, I am definitely no fan of the Salamander stories either, I only read that short-story because it was supposed to be the same story as The Core, from the Salamanders viewpoint.

 

Nihm, which story are you referring to when you mention "Shadow Knight?" I didn't see that title in the collection.

As mentioned it's a short story which can be found in the 2009 games day chapbook. link

 

Hiding behind the fact that this is a short story is no excuse for a poor literary structure and virtually NO plot whatsoever.

That's my main beef with the core, it felt like Bolter porn, with a weak premise (e.g. we went because the Tech Magos said so). Now this is explained here in this thread, but not in the book.

 

Then comes the 'experiment,' which for me was reading references to things that makes no sense because they haven't happened yet (coming from Soul Hunter).

 

I did like that the Raptors weren't introduced as Raptors directly, but every 40K player familiar with them probably went : "those guys are Raptors" early in that 'scene' when their physical descriptions were given. But with a weak foundation for the story and with little emphasis put on the magical wingamajic (aka the Titan Archive) I didn't like it. It felt like 10th claw were just 'passing the time'.

 

Right now,

If you go by Soul Hunter, Throne of Lies & The Core alone and disregard the quotes and references to the Night Haunter and the one scene in Throne of Lies (Chapter 5), then they could be any random Chaos warband.

 

Here's where I disagree with you, dude. I think it actually does a pretty significant disservice

Interestingly enough that comes pretty close to what I feel is being done to the Night Lords in the aforementioned three stories.

 

Much of the core character's conflict is founded purely on his strained relationship with what the Night Lords were, are, and could/should have been. There's also detailed references to life on Nostramo, which was unlike many other Imperial worlds, and highlights why these characters are the way they are.

I wouldn't call them detailed references as such, there's a few offhand references here and there as well as a flash back or two. The odd society of Nostramo hasn't really been touched upon in-depth, there are a few references to the darkness (the lighting on the Covenant of Blood) of the planet though, but nothing deep enough to actually capture how such and environment changes a person, not to mention the impact it had on the million humans who lived there. It's also all well and good with references but, when Night Lords aren't being Night Lords, then, well.. :D

 

They're callous murderers because they grew up that way, and their world was a mess of crime and corruption. They were already distant from normal humans before they became weapons, and as shown in the return to Nostramo, they became even less able to interact with humanity. Disregarding the primarch quotes is also a little disingenuous to suggest, because the Night Lords' difficult relationship with their primarch is a central tenet to the entire Legion.

I am not disregarding them, I am merely pointing out that without them, and the references, they could be ANY Chaos Marine warband and they don't act like Night Lords.

 

Now, I agree with your broad point - that these characters haven't had the chance to act like stereotypical Night Lords yet - and like you said, that was because of the story arc. It was all about them struggling in Soul Hunter, then getting the chance to be truer to their ways of warfare in Blood Reaver (and obviously I didn't want to blow that early in a short story, either). But to say it's really got very little to do with the Night Lords' themes and background is cutting it on the edge of missing the point.

Actually I think you are missing my point, for I never said they should be stereotypical Night Lords, I just said I'd like to see them be Night Lords, outside of Shadow Knight and 'Chapter 5' in Throne of Lies, they haven't been yet, to me. From reading your replies in this thread it sounds like Blood Reaver will change that.

 

If these books depicted what true night lords are supposed to do, think, and feel, my eyes would glaze over and I would fall asleep.

Quick question, did you find The Dark King, Shadow Knight, Nightfall and Lord of the Night boring?

 

The dynamic between First claw themselves, not to mention the humans aboard their vessel, and the other elements of the tenth are what keep me reading.

I agree, same here. :)

 

Reading this topic has made me think about this very issue, and I'm not really sure if that's the whole story. I mean, clearly, there's an element of raw pragmatism in Talos' (relatively) humane treatment of Septimus, but it also strikes me that Septimus is exactly what a human being is supposed to be within the Night Haunter's ethos. His existence is that of a vassal, completely subservient to a sovereign who holds him upon threat of death. Septimus doesn't simply accept this construct and behave accordingly, but loves it, and in accordance with the same ethical framework, Talos takes responsibility for Septimus' well-being. Talos is no Zso Sahaal, but the novel is, in many ways, about his attempt to salvage what he can of his Legion and their code, even as everything around him disintegrates.

 

Similarly, when Octavia is kidnapped by inmates on the prison planet, Talos goes after her with a fiery dedication, and its only here that we see the classic Night Lords "terror tactics" at work, as if this awakens something in him that's lain dormant. The whole sequence is drenched in a weird sort of irony, as Talos becomes a noble hero saving the damsel in distress, but for his own twisted reasons. It's through this lens that the Night Lords can see themselves as just and noble - they're protecting those who follow their laws from those who do not.

 

I've always joked that the Night Lords should, logically, litter copies of Hobbes' Leviathan on the planets they invade and hope the survivors "get it," but Soul Hunter makes me think it's not that much of a joke. :P

That is a very astute observation and I think you are on to something, intended or not, it would certainly explain the rather odd behaviour they show towards their slaves at times.

 

The problem is that the Night Lords are known for brutalizing and terrorizing civilian populations -- but so far, none of ADB's story lines have given them that chance. I fully expect that the first time Talos and his boys get to fight against Imperial Guardsmen, we'll see the sneaky-git-side of the Night Lords come out to play.

Bingo, as well as their reasons for continuing the Long War and what defines and drives them.

 

and Talos has been written very far from a stereo-typical Night Lord. What is so exciting is just what path he is going to embark on.

I can only hope!

 

 

My 2 Kraks

[Talmora]

Soul Hunter is a Trilogy?! o.O

 

Wow..Guess I'll have to look for the other books..

[Candleshoes]

@Talmora

 

It is the first "main book" in the Trilogy, with "Blood Reaver" and "Void Stalker" as the 2nd and 3d books respectively.

 

Only Soul Hunter is available in stores, we have to wait for the other two to be written.

[Cowl]

It seems like most of the complaints on this topic stem from people who feel A D-B's work isn't matching their own preconceived ideas about the Night Lords. That's an issue for you, not A D-B.

 

I'm a Blood Angel fan boy and I love the books. I’m even considering starting a Night Lords army :lol: The way in which the Night Lords tear through the crew of The Sword of the Emperor (a pinpoint strike to crush the moral and direction of an Imperial fleet) and how Talos tracks down the convicts in Soul Hunter sounds like terror inducing Night Lords to me. The way Talos takes apart the assassin in Throne of Lies sounds like the actions of the emperor's (formerly) most ruthless enforcers to me. There's an interview with Dan Abnett somewhere in which he points out that a Chaos Marine can't just wake up in the morning and staple a baby to their head to start the day. That's boring to read and reeks of 'LOL CHAOS' (a great phrase I'm stealing from A D-B ) writing. If Chaos Marines did that the Imperium would have nothing to worry about as they would be too busy being crazy to mount any credible Black Crusades.

 

As for the Night Lords not getting a chance to do what they do best this is commented on by Talos himself when he complains to the Exalted about how the Warmaster is using the 10th in Soul Hunter.

 

Now if A D-B can just write some more Flesh Tearer stories or some Blood Angel books I'll die a happy camper.

[Warsmith Aznable]

I bought the book today just to read this short story. I read Soul Hunter last week and was eager to read more about Talos and company when I glanced at this thread and saw they had a short in Fear the Alien.

 

As far as "The Core" goes, I think my main criticism would be that I don't think it could stand alone, meaning if I hadn't read Soul Hunter I think it would have just been throwaway story about a brawl on a space hulk with a standard "lost technology" mcguffin to put them there. The Salamanders "out of nowhere" was kind of puzzling. I initially thought that they must have been stuck there for a long time, with that thought mostly motivated by the Terminator who is observed by the Raptor leader to be "amusingly mad". So it threw me a bit when there was a jump in time at the end and Talos decides to chase their ship down.

 

Taking the short as part of the big picture, I think it makes me want to read more of these books that are promised. To me the strength of the story is the characters, their personalities and how they interact. Someone mentioned that earlier in the string, and I think it's important to emphasize. I don't want to read another story where there's just a bad guy and his personal lackey are the only interesting evil characters, and so the 1st Claw is the kind of group that makes me happy. Two of my favorite scenes from Soul Hunter involve this personal interaction: in the drop pod when Uzas starts chanting the names of Khorne and everyone else was all, "goddammit not again..." and "I miss so-and-so. It should have been Uzas..." , and later on when Talos keeps Uzas from being stepped on by the Warhound. It's a small touch that shows an interesting complexity of character and emotion. I've said it in another recent thread, but the most appealing thing to me about the Chaos Marines is their tragedy, much like how Lucifer in Paradise Lost is the most interesting and empathetic figure in that story, and I think ADB captures that feeling without taking anything away from their terror inspiring Chaos mentality. That whole "staple a baby to their head" mentioned above is spot on, I think.

[Prokrustes]

It seems like most of the complaints on this topic stem from people who feel A D-B's work isn't matching their own preconceived ideas about the Night Lords. That's an issue for you, not A D-B.

 

Have to disagree on this point. I think most of the complaints stem from people who read the original Index Astartes article and were expecting to see cruel, sadistic criminals. I havent finished Soul Hunter yet, but I must agree with those who did complain already, the guys in Soul Hunter dont feel like NL to me at all. The only NL thing so far has been the darkness on the ship....

Im not saying it isnt a nice story with an excellent writing style. Im just not feeling any NL vibe from it. However, the inter-marine relationship and their personalities are nicely explored etc. but you could rename the whole troop to "Dark Skulls" or a warband from the codex: csm and I wouldnt see any difference to now. I cant even see the difference to loyalist astartes except for a lack of equipment and their leader looking funny.

Furthermore, I always wondered what the reasoning was behind chosing an enemy they cant use their specialty on? I mean why pick NL as protagonists if one doesnt feel like using their defining features? (honestly curious)

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Talos was wondering the same thing, Prokrustes, and even asks the Exalted why they're sticking around to be used as Abaddon's cannon fodder. Having re-read Soul Hunter last week with the knowledge that there's at least two more sequels coming, it appears to me that Soul Hunter's sole purpose for existing was to set the stage for Talos to rise from not-quite-a-sergeant to the leader of his own warband. ADB had to find a way to explain why Talos didn't like Chaos, didn't like Abaddon, didn't like the Exalted and why he wanted to strike out on his own rather than use the tired "Me Traitor Marine, Me Bow to No One!" reasoning. All of the novel was a rising action for what we're going to see in Blood Reaver and Void Stalker.