My first time!

[robzed]

So I'm going in for a friendly tournament with my local games club and I am a bit scared by a few of the lists I'm faceing. If you guys could rate my first eva tournament army list and tell me how to deal with some problem armys that would be awsome! 

 

My list: 

Libby ss t armour what powers?

 

Tactical flamer missile combi flamer fist rhino

Tactical melta missile combi melta fist rhino

 

3 landspeeder typhoons

 

Rifleman dread

= 1000pts ish may need to drop a powerfist.

 

So what's the problems? And if it's ok how do I use it? 

The main armies I'm worried about are 2 dread, 6 kans ork mek army with that bloody force field hiding in a battlewagon list!

And the blood angels assault deepstrike vanguard list!

 

Any help or advice would be great! Thanks guys.

[Tanhausen]

Quick thoughts:

 

- A lone libby in TDA? if he walks by himself, he's gonna end up shot down. If attached to a tactical, then they can't chase down the enemies if they fail the LD check due to the TDA of the libby... I don't really see why you get him in there.

 

- mek screen... is only for shots. Since you already have a couple of PF... get upclose and personal. The alternative is saturation, but vs AV14 that is a tough job.

 

- DS units can be avoided by appropiate deployment (don't leave big holes and use terrain/buildings to force dangerous terrain rolls). Besides, if he doesn't run, flamer and assault.

 

I'm not used to 1k games, not much more I can say.

 

Hope it helps.

[robzed]

Well grey Mage sez that psychic defence is a must, libbys are better In t armour as they benefit greatly from the relentless special rule and it gives him a invun save, and I thought that having him hiding behind a rhino till he was needed would be a good tactic.

[thade]

Riflemen dreads are supposed to be good for popping Rhinos and they are on paper; I've always had bad luck with them though.

 

That said, I'm a fan of the Libby in TDA...here is how I'd use him: I'd give both of the tac squads in Rhinos homing beacons and DS the Librarian. Once he touches down, I disembark the tac squad he landed near and he's joined a unit to soak wounds for him. The downside is he can't get into Rhino, so the tac squad is now on foot. You'll have to make sure (or hope) you can get that Rhino where you want it before he comes in. As for powers, that depends on what you want him to do when he arrives. Given that he'll be tied to a tac squad and they'll sacrifice their mobility for that, you might go with Gate of Infinity, and possibly take Vortex (as in TDA the LIbby is relentless and can move and shoot). I wouldn't make him epistolary as it's expensive as all get out, but you might if you like the idea of him beaming around AND laying out the boom. It will make him a juicier target though, make no mistake.

 

I'm presuming that you're using the vanilla dex; if you're not, you'll need to speak up as there are other powers to consider. :blink: For instance, I use the BA codex, and when I do this with my TDA librarian I give him a Storm Shield, Wings of Sanguinus, and Sword of Sanguinus. Wings are just-in-case, and the Sword = Str 10 in an assault, making that Tac squad a very viable anti-heavy armor solution at close range. I can't speak to SW, but there are others who can.

[Ming]

Have a great time, and look at the first tournament as a way to learn. Look for your game to get better each round. Take a deep breath at turn 3 to start looking for meeting scenario requirements.

 

Your 1000 point list is pretty solid.

 

Libby Should do Null Zone, and either Avenger (AP3 to flame death MEQs) or might (will make him S6 at I4), or smite (AP2). Favorite is avenger.

[Warp Angel]

At 1k points, a single model in terminator armor isn't generally a good choice as an HQ, especially with just I4 and W2. He's not going to be able to take on enemy hand to hand if it closes with you, which is something that small Marine armies lack as a whole.

 

Some answers that you need to have are:

 

1) How are you going to deal with land raider based lists?

2) How are you going to deal with horde based lists?

3) How are you going to deal with monstrous creatures?

4) How are you going to deal with light armor?

5) How are you going to handle hand to hand?

 

There's nothing that says that you have to be good at all of these things, but you at least want to know what your answer is... even if it is "run like hell and hope to not lose".

 

Your list has the following problems, from my perspective:

 

1) You're very unlikely to kill a land raider list and struggle against front AV14.

2) You're going to have problems with hand to hand. No unit that you have is going to win a fight against even degraded assault units from other armies.

3) One thunderfire cannon, loota squad, or artillery attack is fully capable of wrecking all of your land speeders, and about half of your army firepower in a single turn, giving you a lot of problems dealing with anything. You're too vulnerable and it's probably not worth saving kill points to keep them in a single squadron.

[robzed]

That was really helpful thanks guys!

So that was my best shot at writing a list. Will someone just write

me a 1000 pt list and tell me how to use it pls?

[Brother_Fatiswon]

That was really helpful thanks guys!

So that was my best shot at writing a list. Will someone just write

me a 1000 pt list and tell me how to use it pls?

no. you'll never learn to tie your shoes, if don't do it yourself.

as for your List, i would use your LIbby as a rear guard for your dread:screening that rear armor value. as for powers: i would say vortex of doom, to max out the TDA armor you wearing to the Show. as for the other power, i would suggest Machine curse, due to at 1000 points, you not going to be seeing a TON Iv saves. but you light, IMO on anti AV13+ options,

i would group your land speeds into a pair and a single, so you can get the cover save and still fire on 2 targets

[angry man]

i think thats a fair old core for a first attempt at at 1000pt list - to answer Warp Angel's questions i would say

 

1) switch one of the speeders to MM/HF, give the lib VoD as one of his powers that plus MGs oin the tacts should be plenty (anyways, anyone taking a LR in 1000pts has handicapped themselves from the start IMO)

2) 2 or 3 typhoons can easily start to thin hordes

3) the speeders and dread can rack up wounds on MCs

4) as above

5) the same way most marines that dont take termies do - stay in the rhinos and hope they can thin any assault units before they hit

 

as for the problems

 

1) make a change on one of the speeders to add some mobile melts (and save 20pts). also take VoD on the lib and consider DSing him

2) without assault termies, no marine list can make a proper fist of h2h anyways - the dread could come in handy for tying up any h2h units

3) heehee thunderfires lol. solve the problem by taking speeders all ion seperate FOC slots

 

dont go changing too much, just a bit here and there to cover some gaps you left in the original draft - a couple of playtests should highlight the main weaknesses in the build

 

AM

[robzed]

Thank you angryman much more helpfull!

[Tanhausen]

I totally support the advice given above: write your own lists and get games with it.. and stick to it! If every single game you play you change units... you're never going to find out what work with your style.

 

Sticking to your list, and keeping in mind what you say and want to use...my suggestions:

 

1.- Drop the TDA of the Libby

2.- Make 1 LS into MM...+HB or AC if possible. I'm not that fond of MM/HF due to the short range.

3.- Try and get a 3rd tac squad in a rhino, even if its just 5men strong. At such point level, the difference between 2 or 3 scoring units is a BIG issue, IMO.

 

A buddy has a saying that is quite spot on: elites die so troops conquer. If you do all your killing with troops... who's gonna be left to claim objectives? Same goes for your opponent ;)

 

Hope it helps!

[thade]

I love my TDA Librarian, but if you can fit him in a Rhino, so much the better. It'll mean dropping your special weapons on one unit, but it's fine...the Librarian counts as a "special weapon" of a sort.

 

That said, perhaps your only HQ model is a librarian in Terminator armor...in which case, DSing him next to a tac squad with a teleport homer is a viable (if slightly risky) deployment technique. He can also Gate of Infinity his unit around the table for surprise pewpew and be armed himself with Vortex.

[Tanhausen]

From my experience, waiting for that 1 DS unit... ends up in dissapointment. And it its 15% of your list, even worse. And you are wanting to depend on the tacticals being in place with the beacon... and that they survive long enough...

 

Obviously, if models are a restriction... not much sense in talking about it :)

[thade]

You shouldn't *need* that unit to win. If you do, you're going to lose...because your opponent will focus fire it. If you don't *need* it, you're not waiting for it; whenever it shows up, it can be useful. It can add much-needed heat somewhere on the table. Where? Why, wherever you've managed to get your teleport homers. :)

 

I've had good luck with them, and I like playing with some reserves so I can pop out surprises and react to my opponent later. (Sort of the way I've added some Way of Water to my game.) Assault troops have an 18" threat range, or an 18" x 6' threat range off of my table edge, for instance. A sudden Librarian in TDA next to a fire fight can turn the tide for my boys. I'd never make him (or any DS unit) a center piece...but it's certainly useful to have them come in and lend a hand. Were he already on the table, he might be dead.

 

It's fun to play with, regardless; don't give up on reserves!

[Warp Angel]

That was really helpful thanks guys!

So that was my best shot at writing a list. Will someone just write

me a 1000 pt list and tell me how to use it pls?

no. you'll never learn to tie your shoes, if don't do it yourself.

as for your List, i would use your LIbby as a rear guard for your dread:screening that rear armor value. as for powers: i would say vortex of doom, to max out the TDA armor you wearing to the Show. as for the other power, i would suggest Machine curse, due to at 1000 points, you not going to be seeing a TON Iv saves. but you light, IMO on anti AV13+ options,

i would group your land speeds into a pair and a single, so you can get the cover save and still fire on 2 targets

 

I avoid giving specific advice on what units to take in an army because I think a lot like Brother_Fatiswon does... you need to learn to play the army that you have and to build an army that maximizes its advantages while exploiting as many of the enemy disadvantages as possible and minimizing weaknesses.

 

The reason I avoid giving specific advice is that individual playstyle is going to dictate what units are effective for you and which ones aren't. In a theoretical world, some units are obviously "better" than others, but if they don't synergize with the rest of your army, they aren't really "better".

 

Your playstyle, your opponents, and your local gaming environment is going to help push what works for you and that's a discovery process that getting a list from someone else doesn't make any easier. It took me 10 years to figure out how to win consistently and another 5 or 6 how to win most of the time. What I had in my collection to put my army was never an issue because I just bought whatever I wanted to play with (or in very rare cases, proxied it).

 

I can say with great certainty that 'uber units' and 'awesome lists' fail if you don't know how to use them effectively. Sure, the super unit might clear out half of the enemy army (2nd ed was notorious for this), but you still might not win.

 

As a matter of fact, the armies that I play now are almost always "all comers" lists that most people look at and scratch their heads, trying to figure out how things work together, but because I understand how to synergize them, I'm VERY effective with them and don't ever experience being "overmatched" anymore. My losses are almost always closely contested, even with my bad dice.

 

(For the record, I'm at 22% on wounding with my melta weapon shots over the past year since I started keeping track of what I thought was phenomenally bad luck).

 

Build a list you think will work. Play with it, adjusting as necessary to compensate for weaknesses or to enhance strength and adaptability. A few months down the road you should have something you really like that will serve as a solid foundation for tournaments and the like.

 

Read the links in my sig line for some suggestions on how to play and what kind of army composition elements you want to consider.

[Hellios]

I'm going to agree with the others that say stick with your list, my lists have often been called crap :'( but they often win or at least in the case of my Eldar... because I know what to do with them and what units I like... While it is worth considering the ideas have given above as to how you might change your list my best suggestion is get as many games as you can in with that list against as many different types of lists as possible... figure out where you have problems and where you do well, what units are working for you and what units arn't... Then consider tweaking your list to help you deal with your problems and cut dead weight.