Sang Guard Death Mask vs Walkers

[Wildcard101]

Sanguinary Guard's Death Mask

- an enemy assaulted by one or more unit equipped with Death Masks must pass a Leadership test or be reduced to Weapon Skill 1 for the duration of the Assault Phase.

 

Hmmm...

Walkers don't have Leadership values so I guess the Death Masks automatically reduce them to WS 1...

Death Mask wording doesn't mention non-Vehicle or Walkers...

Nothing on the FAQ... so it should work.

[Arkio]

in cases where walkers need to take LD test they are assumed to be LD 10. at least that seems to be the precedent....

[yodaid764]

Arkio, where are you getting that info? I was under the impression that if a model lacks a value referred by a rule it does not apply. In this case I would say since walkers lack a LD value the death mask has no effect

[Arkio]

My rulebook is at my friends/main opponents house, i think it comes into play in multiple assaults where a walker is involved and i lose the walker assumes a LD value of 10. my other recent for stating that is in regards to our Libby dreads, where it states we assume the dread to have LD 10 for use of psychic powers. If this is an incorrect assumption, i apologize.

[Crynn]

I believe it says walkers are assumed to automatically pass all morale tests and in all other cases are Ld10

It may also be assumed to pass all leadership and morale tests. Find the clause thats similar the that in the rulebook at that'll sort it out, I just can't remember which one it is.

[Spacefrisian]

Walkers (and Talos) are never affected by that deathmask.

[donnyb]

I believe it says walkers are assumed to automatically pass all morale tests and in all other cases are Ld10

It may also be assumed to pass all leadership and morale tests. Find the clause thats similar the that in the rulebook at that'll sort it out, I just can't remember which one it is.

The mask doesn't require a morale test. It is a leadership test.

 

I can't find any reference that gives ld10 as default to the walkers.

 

I assume there must be something, but I haven't found it.

[Spacefrisian]

Cause their is no rule for Walkers having a Leadership, i think the peeps are confused with the Libraian Dreadnought who counts as having LD 10 for Psychic tests.

 

Any other references they might have seen are completely bull.

[lunchb0x]

I cant find anything that states that walkers are ld 10...only they auto pass morale.

[Morollan]

In order to work, the death mask calls for a walker to fail a test on a characteristic that it does not have. The mask cannot therefore function as the walker cannot fail the test.

[Morticon]

In order to work, the death mask calls for a walker to fail a test on a characteristic that it does not have. The mask cannot therefore function as the walker cannot fail the test.

 

This!

 

Theres nothing else saying a walker has LD10.

[Wildcard101]

In order to work, the death mask calls for a walker to fail a test on a characteristic that it does not have. The mask cannot therefore function as the walker cannot fail the test.

 

Wouldn't this somehow work in the same way as stated in p.8 of the Rulebook?

If a model has to take a test for one of it's characteristics with a value of 0, it automatically fails.

Of course, Walkers do not state a Ld 0 on their profile...

[Aarkon]

In order to work, the death mask calls for a walker to fail a test on a characteristic that it does not have. The mask cannot therefore function as the walker cannot fail the test.

 

Wouldn't this somehow work in the same way as stated in p.8 of the Rulebook?

If a model has to take a test for one of it's characteristics with a value of 0, it automatically fails.

Of course, Walkers do not state a Ld 0 on their profile...

 

Yes the Walker doesn't have a LD 0 so this rule doesn't apply. The only mention of a Walker with LD is the Librarian Dreadnought and that LD 10 is just considered that for Psychic attacks. As mentioned the mask just wouldn't work.

[Judaz]

The unit has to pass a leadership test or be reduced to WS1. Since the walker can't pass, playing RAW, the mask should work. It doesn't say that a unit that fails the test is affected, just that the unit have to pass the test or loose.

 

Not that I would ever use the mask that way, but RAW it should work if the main rule book don't have anything else to bring to the table.

[ImperialReaper]

The unit has to pass a leadership test or be reduced to WS1. Since the walker can't pass, playing RAW, the mask should work. It doesn't say that a unit that fails the test is affected, just that the unit have to pass the test or loose.

 

Not that I would ever use the mask that way, but RAW it should work if the main rule book don't have anything else to bring to the table.

 

Woah I am so impressed. I mean I know judged by reason this is plane bull:cuss (no offense of cause) but, on the other hand judged by plane logic this is quite brilliant. I will try this in one of my next games and just for fun see how my friends react. I guess he will find it hard to find any argument against "you cant pass a test you dont take" except that you also cant fail one. But you are right of cause that the formulation of the rule makes it irrelevant weather you can fail the test or not. Yes this also goes beyone RAW and into a whole new level of logomachy but still.

 

Woah my brain is still flashed by this pure and simple logic. All other answers are so like a twisty long line corellating to many other rules. This Idea is like BAM - shut up fool!

[Brother_Dan'l]

Seriously? People are claiming that a vehicle will be effected by Death Masks? Really? :)

 

Walkers are vehicles that use some of the same characteristics as non-vehicle models. And that's darned near a direct quote. If there is no characteristic listed then NOTHING in the rules states, or even suggests, that you would default to treating them like anything other than a Vehicle where that characteristic is concerned. Do tanks, trukks, speeders or mini-vans take LD tests in any form? No. So why should a Walker be any different? They have no LD in their stats. Not a zero, not a dash, no LD stat line at all.

 

Only the Furioso Librarian and the GK Dreadnought ever even use leadership, and then only for the specific purposes listed in their Codex entries.

 

So... No. Walkers are not effected by Death Masks. :D

[Grey Mage]

In order to work, the death mask calls for a walker to fail a test on a characteristic that it does not have. The mask cannot therefore function as the walker cannot fail the test.

 

Wouldn't this somehow work in the same way as stated in p.8 of the Rulebook?

If a model has to take a test for one of it's characteristics with a value of 0, it automatically fails.

Of course, Walkers do not state a Ld 0 on their profile...

Exactly- a Model actually has to have a Characteristic of 0, not of -, not simply missing it, it must actually be 0.

 

Kind of like weapons without a listed AP value do not take a -1 on the damage chart vs vehicles, but weapons with AP - do.

[Spacefrisian]

The unit has to pass a leadership test or be reduced to WS1. Since the walker can't pass, playing RAW, the mask should work. It doesn't say that a unit that fails the test is affected, just that the unit have to pass the test or loose.

 

Not that I would ever use the mask that way, but RAW it should work if the main rule book don't have anything else to bring to the table.

 

Seriously there is only one answer to this stupid statement.

 

http://rob.nu/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/facepalm2.jpg

[SKeeM]

The unit has to pass a leadership test or be reduced to WS1. Since the walker can't pass, playing RAW, the mask should work. It doesn't say that a unit that fails the test is affected, just that the unit have to pass the test or loose.

 

Not that I would ever use the mask that way, but RAW it should work if the main rule book don't have anything else to bring to the table.

 

Seriously there is only one answer to this stupid statement.

 

http://rob.nu/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/facepalm2.jpg

 

:lol:

[Judaz]

Thanks for the double facepalm. Now I would like to see the rules that made you double facepalm. Straight up rules or a logic explanation.

[Aarkon]

The unit has to pass a leadership test or be reduced to WS1. Since the walker can't pass, playing RAW, the mask should work. It doesn't say that a unit that fails the test is affected, just that the unit have to pass the test or loose.

 

Not that I would ever use the mask that way, but RAW it should work if the main rule book don't have anything else to bring to the table.

 

 

People realise this is a permisive rule set right? You have to have permission to do something before you can. The rule book doesn't say a lot of things that doesn't mean you can do them all. By that logic the rulebook doesn't say what a Dreadnoughts Leadership is, so under this logic I could just say my Dreadnoughts Leadership is 12.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Damn not the double face palm !! LOLZ !

 

0b :)

[Spacefrisian]

Well it was asked for....

[Judaz]

Since you haven't shown me any rules that contradict my previous post I have to assume that by the RAW, you could argue that a walker is reduced to WS1. Most other powers or abilities say that the unit have to fail a test, but the deathmask says that any unit that does not succeed is affected. Hence, a cheesy player could argue for the deathmask to actually work on a walker.

Please let me know of any rules that contradict this.

[Baragash]

Since you haven't shown me any rules that contradict my previous post I have to assume that by the RAW, you could argue that a walker is reduced to WS1. Most other powers or abilities say that the unit have to fail a test, but the deathmask says that any unit that does not succeed is affected. Hence, a cheesy player could argue for the deathmask to actually work on a walker.

Please let me know of any rules that contradict this.

 

Your previous post just says "playing RAW" but hasn't actually made any citations as to why you believe it's RAW.