Rethinking Wolf Guard Pack Leaders and Grey Hunters

[Anpu42]

I have been thinking about Grey Hunters and Wolf Guard Pack Leader. In many cases I think Wolf Guard Pack Leaders are not necessary. I am not saying that they are not useful, but not always needed.

 

When and were they are great.

 

Foot-Slogging List: This is a great place for them. They don’t interfere with transports and maximum size and give you a LD of 9 and extra punch in close combat. With a Combi-Weapon and a Power Fist can make a great Anti-Armor addition.

 

-Moral: If you are Foot-Slogging you are most likely running something similar to a Gunline. You will be taking incoming fire and thing like Pining Test. This is were their Leadership of 9 will come in useful.

-Special Weapons: You can easily grab both Special Weapons and grab a Combi-Bolter makes for good addition.

-Close Combat: If you have you Power Weapon/Power Fist/MotW/Wolf Standard going you should do well in an Assault. Also with your LD 9 you have a better chance of pulling of your Counter-Attack.

Razorbacks:

-Moral: If you are in the Razorback they don’t need to make one. Once you are out of the Razorback you should be more than halfway across the battlefield and if you fail your Moral you will head back to your lines and regroup with ATSKNF. Also with your small numbers almost any losses with for you to make a Leadership Test so a LD of m9 will come in real handy.

-Special Weapons: You are going to have only one so a Combi-Bolter is a Good Addition.

-Close Combat: The extra Attack [most likely with a Power Weapon of some sort] will make a real difference.

 

Where some of the situations were they may not be necessary.

 

Rhinos:

-Moral: Not that necessary, if you are in the Rhino they don’t need to make one. Once you are out of the Rhino you should be more than halfway across the battlefield and if you fail your Moral you will head back to your lines and regroup with ATSKNF.

-Special Weapons: While you are on the Rhino you can fire both of them every turn. The WGPL will just get one shot, and if your Rhino survives past that shot you are down to one Special Weapon and Bolt Guns.

-Close Combat: If you have you Power Weapon/Power Fist/MotW/Wolf Standard going you should do well in an Assault. If you loose an Assault you will only loose it by one more than if you had a WGPL in it. With ATSKNF you can not be the victim of a Sweeping Advance.

 

Drop Pods:

-Moral: Not that necessary as most likely you are doing a Suicide Drop and why spend the extra points on a unit that is going to die. If you are lucky enough to survive failing a moral is not so bad. With ATSKNF you will just retreat to you lines.

-Special Weapons: The WGPL will just get one shot, and if survive past the one shot you are down to one Special Weapon and Bolt Guns.

-Close Combat: If you have you Power Weapon/Power Fist/MotW/Wolf Standard going you should do well in an Assault. If you loose an Assault you will only loose it by one more than if you had a WGPL in it. With ATSKNF you can not be the victim of a Sweeping Advance.

 

A Note:

2nd Grey Hunter with a Melta-Gun=15 points

WGPL with Combi-Melta=23 Points

 

I had to make an Edit Sorry.

[Grey Mage]

In reverse order:

1) Why would you put your GHs into a suicide drop when you can put them into a combat-effective drop?

2) What about a plasma pistol for when you get close as the other other special weapon?

3) In a Razorback isnt Morale even more important? After all your opponent will have an easier time forcing morale checks on smaller squads, and scoring wolf gaurd are pretty sexy.

4) Why not an advancing wall of brothers? TDA equiped WGPLs greatly aid the survivability of any pack that theyre with, some can have heavy weapons, and we have plenty of ways to ensure they get there in one peice. Conversely, if your running a gunline then why so much need for CC ability? And why arent you taking some Razorbacks anyways?

[Thunderhawk3015]

The problem I see with not taking the pack leaders is that they can carry weapons/wargear that can make that difference. An extra power weapon, power fist, or that meltabomb for that tank your about to punk is always useful. LD9 helps for making sure you don't take ATSKNF saves as often. Wolf Guard are a constant that you have untill he dies, wolf totem is a one use item which for that one combat that it gets used is helpful where a wolf guard has uses every turn.

 

In short a Wolf Guard squad leader adds more hitting power to a squad between his wargear options and the fact that some wargear that you can run up against removes the extra cqc weapon does not affect him as much makes him well worth it.

 

Thats just my .02 on the matter.

[Anpu42]

In reverse order:

1) Why would you put your GHs into a suicide drop when you can put them into a combat-effective drop?

I actualy do not Do not do Suicide Drops, but alot do with a Metla-Gun and WGPL armed with a Comb-Melta.

When I do pod them I usaly place them to be a Flanking force with at least 4 other Pods.

My normal is

-2x Grey Hunter Pod is 10 Grey Hunters, 2x Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol, Power Fist, MotW and Wolf Standard.

-2x Grey Hunter Pod is 10 Grey Hunters, 2x Melta Guns, Plasma Pistol, Power Fist, MotW and Wolf Standard.

-2x Grey Hunter Pod is 10 Grey Hunters, 2x Flamers, Plasma Pistol, Power Fist, MotW and Wolf Standard.

-2x Wolf Guard Terminators

-1x Dred

2) What about a plasma pistol for when you get close as the other other special weapon?

I find them Great, when mixed with 2 Plasma Guns that gives me 5 Plasma Shots.

 

3) In a Razorback isnt Morale even more important? After all your opponent will have an easier time forcing morale checks on smaller squads, and scoring wolf gaurd are pretty sexy.

Sorry that was a Coppy Paster Erro and will be fixed :D

 

4) Why not an advancing wall of brothers? TDA equiped WGPLs greatly aid the survivability of any pack that theyre with, some can have heavy weapons, and we have plenty of ways to ensure they get there in one peice. Conversely, if your running a gunline then why so much need for CC ability? And why arent you taking some Razorbacks anyways?

If I had some more I would, but this is more about Wolf Guard Pack Leaders and thier Interaction with Grey Hunters than Grey Hunter Tactics.

[Anpu42]

The problem I see with not taking the pack leaders is that they can carry weapons/wargear that can make that difference. An extra power weapon, power fist, or that meltabomb for that tank your about to punk is always useful. LD9 helps for making sure you don't take ATSKNF saves as often. Wolf Guard are a constant that you have untill he dies, wolf totem is a one use item which for that one combat that it gets used is helpful where a wolf guard has uses every turn.

 

In short a Wolf Guard squad leader adds more hitting power to a squad between his wargear options and the fact that some wargear that you can run up against removes the extra cqc weapon does not affect him as much makes him well worth it.

 

Thats just my .02 on the matter.

I do agree most of the time, with Grey Hunter you can use that extra "UMPH", but if I am running a "Rhino Mech List" I have found that 2 Plasma Guns are Better than a Plasma Gun and a Combi-Plasma. This is where I started to Question the "Need" for Wolf Guard Pack Leaders is some situations.

[Grey Mage]

See, and I feel that a WGPL is even more of an advantage to a footslogging squad, for the ability to shrug off AP 3 wounds, potentially with a storm shield if youve got the points.

 

Saved my bacon a number of times.

[Anpu42]

I have started to use Storm Bolter/Thunder Hammer or Storm Bolter/Power Fist with my Foot-Slogers.

[Anpu42]

1500 October Grey Hunters

This is one of my lists for the IEGA October Wargame Meet-Up. We are planning on a 1,500 “Bring and Battle” in the Afternoon. So far there are only 3 of us so I am working on a Bring on all comers list. Normally I would through in a pair of Long Fangs [i have not ruled them out yet], but I figure I am going spend half the game with Chaos and Nids in my face.

 

Rune Priest @ 180 pts (Chooser of the Slain; Melta Bombs; Runic Armor; Wolftooth Necklace; Bolt Pistol x1; Runic Weapon x1, Living Lightning; Murderous Hurricane; Saga of the Warrior Born)

 

1st Grey Hunters Pack @ 225 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasmagun x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

2nd Grey Hunters Pack @ 225 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasmagun x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

3rd Grey Hunters Pack @ 220 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Meltagun x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

4th Grey Hunters Pack @ 220 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Meltagun x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

5th Grey Hunters Pack @ 215 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Flamer x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

6th Grey Hunters Pack @ 215 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Flamer x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

Total Roster Cost: 1500

[Grimtooth]

1500 October Grey Hunters

This is one of my lists for the IEGA October Wargame Meet-Up. We are planning on a 1,500 “Bring and Battle” in the Afternoon. So far there are only 3 of us so I am working on a Bring on all comers list. Normally I would through in a pair of Long Fangs [i have not ruled them out yet], but I figure I am going spend half the game with Chaos and Nids in my face.

 

Rune Priest @ 180 pts (Chooser of the Slain; Melta Bombs; Runic Armor; Wolftooth Necklace; Bolt Pistol x1; Runic Weapon x1, Living Lightning; Murderous Hurricane; Saga of the Warrior Born)

 

1st Grey Hunters Pack @ 225 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasmagun x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

2nd Grey Hunters Pack @ 225 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasmagun x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

3rd Grey Hunters Pack @ 220 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Meltagun x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

4th Grey Hunters Pack @ 220 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Meltagun x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

5th Grey Hunters Pack @ 215 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Flamer x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

6th Grey Hunters Pack @ 215 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Flamer x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

Total Roster Cost: 1500

 

I would dump one flamer squad and one plasma gun squad. You are not going to match Nids in numbers and Chaos only needs to bring some heavy support to wipe you out. So you could do the following with the saved points to really bump up your long range firepower:

 

Long Fangs x6, MLx5, Razorback w/TLC/Plasma

Long Fangs x6, MLx5, Razorback w/TLC/Plasma

 

Or you could do the following to allow your plasma gun squad to have a mobile bunker for sitting on an objective and one flamer squad for having a mobile bunker against bugs while giving the razorbacks the job of reducing horde numbers each turn:

 

 

Long Fangs x6, MLx5, Razorback w/HB

Long Fangs x6, MLx5, Razorback w/HB

Rhino to flamer GH

Rhino to plasma gun GH

[Anpu42]

I was thinking actualy dropping the 2 Melta-Gun Packs for 2 Long Fangs. The Chaos player's only armor is a Vindicator. The Nid player is moslt likely have 2 MC [One is the one that, as he puts it "Poops Guants" and a 3-6 of Warriors.

[Grimtooth]

I was thinking actualy dropping the 2 Melta-Gun Packs for 2 Long Fangs. The Chaos player's only armor is a Vindicator. The Nid player is moslt likely have 2 MC [One is the one that, as he puts it "Poops Guants" and a 3-6 of Warriors.

 

Even then that still gives you enough points to add razorbacks for your Long Fangs or rhinos for your flamer squads. Rhino rushing into gaunt swarm to drop 4 flamer templates from the safety of your rhinos. That is some damage to one gaunt swarm. Or even 10 ML and two lascan shots into MC. I can hear the juicy pop already of them going down.

[Anpu42]

I actually Don’t have any Space Wolf Razorbacks. Here are two possibilities with what I have

 

1500 October Grey Hunters Mk II

 

Rune Priest @ 140 pts (Chooser of the Slain, Runic Armor; Wolftooth Necklace; Bolt Pistol x1; Runic Weapon x1; Living Lightning; Murderous Hurricane) {With Long Fangs}

 

Rune Priest @ 145 pts (Chooser of the Slain; Melta Bombs; Runic Armor; Wolftooth Necklace; Runic Weapon x1; Bolter; Living Lightning; Tempest's Wrath) {With Long Fangs}

 

1st Grey Hunters Pack @ 225 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasmagun x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

2nd Grey Hunters Pack @ 225 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasmagun x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

3rd Grey Hunters Pack @ 215 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Flamer x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

4th Grey Hunters Pack @ 215 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Flamer x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

1st Long Fangs Pack @ 155 pts (Close Combat Weapon x5; Missile Launcher x5)

-1x Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol x1; Power Weapon x1)

 

2nd Long Fangs Pack @ 180 pts (Close Combat Weapon x5; Heavy Bolter x1; Lascannon x2; Missile Launcher x2)

-1x Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol x1; Power Weapon x1)

 

Total Roster Cost: 1500

 

Or

 

1500 October Grey Hunters Mk III

 

Rune Priest @ 135 pts (Chooser of the Slain; Melta Bombs; Runic Armor; Bolt Pistol x1; Runic Weapon x1; Living Lightning; Murderous Hurricane) {With Long Fangs}

 

1 Rune Priest @ 130 pts (Chooser of the Slain; Runic Armor; Runic Weapon x1; Bolter x1, Living Lightning; Tempest's Wrath) {With Long Fangs}

 

Wolf Guard Pack @ 244 pts

-2x Wolf Guard in Power Armor (Storm Bolter x1; Thunder Hammer x1) {With Long Fangs}

-1x Wolf Guard in Power Armor (Combi-Meltagun x1; Power Fist x1) {With Grey Hunters}

-1x Wolf Guard in Power Armor (Power Fist x1; Storm Bolter x1) {With Grey Hunters}

-1x Wolf Guard in Terminator Armor (Melta Bombs; Power Weapon x1; Storm Bolter x1; Cyclone Missile Launcher) {With Long Fangs}

 

1st Grey Hunters Pack @ 225 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasmagun x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

2nd Grey Hunters Pack @ 225 pts (Mark of the Wulfen; Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x7; Bolter x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasmagun x2; Plasma Pistol x1; Power Fist x1)

 

1st Long Fangs Pack @ 155 pts (Close Combat Weapon x5; Missile Launcher x5)

-1x Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon x1)

 

2nd Long Fangs Pack @ 180 pts (Close Combat Weapon x5; Heavy Bolter x1; Lascannon x2; Missile Launcher x2)

-1x Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon x1)

 

3rd Long Fangs Pack @ 205 pts (Close Combat Weapon x5; Plasma Cannon x5)

-1x Squad Leader (Bolt Pistol; Power Weapon x1)

 

Total Roster Cost: 1499