beginning a new Warband

[Freman Bloodglaive]

My main army is Space Wolves, so my core will be 2 x 10 Chaos Marines, two meltagun, power fist, Rhino. I have allowed myself all Rhino based tanks so that gives me Predators and Vindicators as well as havocs for fire support. Bikes are IIRC somewhat overpriced, so I won't be taking more than one squad.

I'll give the Lord the mark of Tzeentch, but that doesn't mean I'm going to take a daemon weapon. Twin lightning claws are my preferred weapon on any HQ if I can't get strength boosting weapons.

[the jeske]

the undivided demon weapon is +1str. the nurgle weapon is +4 wound on all +re-rolls for poison. you could always counts as those.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Thinking about it, Raptors are a better investment than bikes. They're only about 2 points overpriced and they have the option of two specials which the standard marine jumpers lack.

 

I assembled a robed commander with a big two handed axe.

 

With the risk in failing morale, Chaos undivided to represent their grizzled and determined nature might be a better investment than mark of Tzeentch. I can keep the fluff the same, just say that Tzeentch withdraw his attentions, for the time being. Certainly 3 + D6 strength 5 attacks makes the Lord option slightly more useful. Against that is the drop to a 5+ invulnerable.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Doing some more thinking Khorne, in his incarnation as the god of martial pride and honour (not the blood crazed reaver) is most likely to echo their principles.

They were disgusted by the Inquisitor's actions because the destruction of those unable to defend themselves violated their ideal of the noble warrior.

I think I'll even use the Khornate daemon weapon, even though I know it'll probably kill my Lord more quickly than any enemy can. One day I'm sure I'll roll the maximum 17 attacks and then someone will get it.

I'll also be able to take my favourite Chaos character Kharne as a second HQ, although not often. Given the weakness of Chaos characters I'll try to put my points into more infantry instead.

That said, Slaanesh, with the ability to strike before the most common enemy, Marines, could be useful too.

[Hellrender]

actually a question i had of my own aswell. Whats better for a lord, DW of Tzeentch, undivided or Nurgle. he fights alongside a DP of Tzeentch. And he is in a squad of assault based noise marines in a rhino.

 

cheers!

[Freman Bloodglaive]

Consensus is that poisoned (4+) makes the Nurgle weapon the best. It doesn't matter what the enemy's toughness is, on a 4+ he takes a wound. Against toughness 3 or less you get re-rolls which means it's still pretty damaging.

Unmarked gives you strength 5, which is the next best thing to wounding on 4+. Against most enemies it's just as good (against toughness 4 it's better). Also, it's the cheapest option, and in an army where you're gouged for every option that's important.

Tzeentch gives you a shooting attack, it's even a fairly nice shooting attack, and of course you get the nice 4+ invulnerable save. However that means it suffers from the same problem as the Khorne weapon, inasmuch as you're rolling two dice (if you shoot then assault) and that means you have two chances to wound yourself each turn.

Slaanesh is regarded as the third best option, because if you successfully wound your opponent (and they aren't eternal warriors) then they're goneburgers. With initiative 6 you've even got a chance of doing that Space Marine captain or suchlike in before they get to strike. On the downside you're still only strength 4.

Khorne... well whoever wrote the rules for this weapon was applying the maxim "Khorne cares not from whence the blood flows:" far too literally. I did a punnet square and out of 36 dice combinations 11 of them include at least one 1. While other Daemon weapons have a one in six chance of wounding you, this one has close to one in 3. On the up side, if you don't wound yourself then you'll reap a bloody harvest among your foes with between 8 and 17 attacks. It's still only strength 4 though.

 

Thinking about it, Slaanesh is the cheapest of the specific god marks, but against the most numerous enemy (Space Marines) it provides an invaluable advantage. It's even good against Eldar types because initiative 5 and 6 allows you to get your licks in even if they rip you a new one. You have to build for speed of course. Power fists become a luxury item, power weapons and twin lightning claws become the default option.

 

For example, a unit of chosen. 10 man, two meltaguns, three guys with twin lightning claws, icon of Slaanesh, Rhino. 335 points. Don't bother with the Aspiring Champion, he only brings an extra attack. Aside from the way you pay through the nose for the squad it's rather vicious. On the charge that's 9 lightning claw attacks and 21 normal attacks, all going at initiative 5. That means that by the time the Marines get to strike you've probably knocked off five or six of them already. Hopefully when they redo the Codex Chosen will get two attacks base like Space Marine Veterans. That'll make them even better.

 

Basic Chaos Marine Squads would be 10 men, aspiring champion, power weapon, two meltaguns, icon of Slaanesh, Rhino. That's 250 points, but again they're getting in 4 power weapon attacks and 27 normal attacks before the Marines get to attack.

I'd slap the icon on the aspiring champion because if he dies it's over anyway, and there doesn't seem to be a limitation saying "the model that you upgraded to carry the icon may not then be upgraded to an aspiring champion". I'd say that the banner on his back is the "icon".

 

Things I'd want to see in a future Codex. All marines are fearless at 15 points. Fearless sucks, but being run down sucks more. Marks are bought on a per model basis, 1 point for Slaanesh, 2 points for Nurgle and Khorne, 3 points for Tzeentch. That saves points on a small unit, but means that you do pay for it on a large unit. We'll keep the effects unchanged for now. We'll use the Space Wolves for an example of how to buy weapons on a basic squad, flamer free, melta +5, plasma +10, at squad of ten second special weapon free, heavy bolter, autocannon, and missile launcher free, lascannon +10 points. Aspiring Champion a 10 point upgrade, options of combi-weapon +5 points, plasma pistol +15 points, power weapon +15, fist +25, lightning claw +15 or twin lightning claws +30.

 

As an aside, a Grey Hunter unit similar to the above, twin meltaguns and a power weapon with Rhino costs 205 points. That extra 45 points adds up over the assembly of a list, meaning that for every 4 squads the Chaos player gets the Space Wolf gets five. The Space Wolves also have ATSKNF which makes them pretty much indifferent to morale checks (unless you are too close to the table edge after taking three casualties at the start of the game, failing your check and running off the table, but anyways). With my suggested revisions the Chaos Marine squad would drop to 225 points. Fearless is a two edged sword, so that's fair enough, they have the boosted initiative so that's worth a few points more as is the extra attack from the AC. I think my suggestion is balanced.

 

Loyalist marines with meltagun, multi-melta, power weapon and Rhino are also 225 points. While some might argue that the proposed Chaos Marine squad is better than the loyalist (and it is), the fact remains that the Tactical squad is merely part of an army (and not the most important part) it is supported by things like Librarians, Land Speeders, decent Land Raiders, hammernator terminators and the like while in a Chaos army the Marine squad is really all there is, much like the aforementioned Grey Hunters. Chaos do need some hard hitting units, like juggernaut riding Khorne Berzerkers, to provide a hammer unit.

[Hellrender]

I know the CSM codex needs a remap. We'll see how that ends, when it comes.

 

For now, i'm never a fan of slaanesh (just don't like the god, and for my noise marines i make a counts as warpenergy weapon story).

 

So for me it goes between Nurgle and Undivided. The Nurgle one is :lol: to model (i just don't like it that u then have to make disease stuff...) so i will take Undivided ;).

 

Greetz, but tnx for the help.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I'm not particularly enthralled by Slaanesh either, so I'd probably just attribute their enhanced speed to some quirk of their geneseed expression.

You don't have to model disgusting things onto your models even if they do nominally follow Nurgle. My model for my commander just has the two handed axe from the Space Wolf sprue. It's a daemonic weapon, and its effect depends on the marl I give him. Obviously I haven't finished my army yet so I don't know exactly how it's going to work.