Advice on Deep Striking BA list and rule

[Saint Smiley]

Hi folks,

 

Hope you can all add your valued opinions, on a recent game, and relativly new BA army I have been working on.

 

I'm only about 5 games in, and to be honnest it's going pretty average so far. 2 wins, 2 defeats, and a draw.

 

I managed to sneak a win last night against a guard mech list but that was only down to objective placement and control. I had four models left at the end of game, whilst my oppenant had 3 demolisher/russ variants and a hell hound sreaming down my neck.

 

The list is pretty standard JP BA with the following :-

 

Dante + Honour Guard with JP's 1 inferno pistol, 1 melta, 1 melta bomb.

 

5 VG vets (1 plasma pistol, and chainsword, 2 power weapons, and 1 glaive).

 

2 JP Priests

 

2 x 10 assault marines (sarg with power fist & inferno, 2 melta).

 

1 x 8 assault marines (sarg with power fist, inferno, 1 melta).

 

Initially I planned to use the vets and the honour guard + dante to support each other by landing the vets, and then place the honour guard in range to grant feel no pain.

 

My real issue is that Dante has yet to see the turn after he deep strikes. In every game he and the honour guard deep strike, destory a tank, and then get wasted from the return fire.

 

I need to get more value from this unit, sure it deflects some fire away from the rest of the deep strikes, but it's not getting anyway near it's points value back, and am considering a less adventrous deep strik or starting it on the board may serve me better. Any suggestions?

 

Also can somebody confirm that the vanguard vets continue to roll 2 dice for scatter, as they dont have the decent of angles rule? My opennet last night pointed this out to me, alttough previoulsy I had thought that all models with a jump pack came with this rule. I could'nt provide an asnwer to this and rolled 2 dice (not that it mattered :cuss ).

 

Last question. What's your experiance of combating the assult squads to devide the melta shots against more possible targets? I think I should have done this last night aginst the Mech to minimise the return fire from all the AP2 tank weaponary, but was concenred that the smoking tanks would minimise the impact.

[Erasmus of Baal]

Hi folks,

 

Hello! ;)

 

Initially I planned to use the vets and the honour guard + dante to support each other by landing the vets, and then place the honour guard in range to grant feel no pain.

 

My real issue is that Dante has yet to see the turn after he deep strikes. In every game he and the honour guard deep strike, destory a tank, and then get wasted from the return fire.

 

I need to get more value from this unit, sure it deflects some fire away from the rest of the deep strikes, but it's not getting anyway near it's points value back, and am considering a less adventrous deep strik or starting it on the board may serve me better. Any suggestions?

 

I think that the HG might just be too big a unit to use as a bomb like this. JP Marines with melta weaponry are going to attract save-ignoring shots, period. The only suggestion I would have with that is to either run everyone that way, or drop everyone at a safe distance, run to spread out, and then attack next turn. But then, I'm a theoryhammer major since I've no one to play against, so listen to others rather than me.

 

Also can somebody confirm that the vanguard vets continue to roll 2 dice for scatter, as they dont have the decent of angles rule? My opennet last night pointed this out to me, alttough previoulsy I had thought that all models with a jump pack came with this rule. I could'nt provide an asnwer to this and rolled 2 dice (not that it mattered :cuss ).

 

I can't confirm that the VVs roll 2D6 scatter because they don't. It's listed under the Jump Pack' individual equipment entry that all models with this piece of equipment have the DoA rule. VVs using JPs to deep strike in only roll 1D6. The reason that the DoA rule is not listed in the VV entry is that the VVs are listed without their JPs; without the JPs, they do not have the rule.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

What he said... all Jump packs in a BA list have DoA.

 

As for Dante, he is usually a beast for me. Though I typically march him (and co) behind transport/tank cover walls rather than DS. However being that Dante _never_ scatters, you should be able to place your unit in a place where they will receive cover, even after they destroy the intended target. I tend to go after transports rather than tanks simply because I can then assault the innards once I destroy it with melta fire (except of course on the turn your DS).

[MaleOpener]

The vanguard veterans don't have the "Descent of Angels" special rule.

 

Sang Guard List

 

The Grim Toll

 

BA Lists 1k - 1.75k

 

These links, and the blog, should help in the answers you are seeking. I did some searching so you didn't have to.

 

You might have to get through alot of "blah", since the writer loves to ramble but its always useful.

 

I hope this helps you, as it has helped me.

[Dalinair]

Vets deep striking has generally been one of those talking points for quite a while and always a point for people who want to screw you over to point out however the general consensus (though it was no FAQ'd) is that the jump pack rule over writes the clearly missing entry from the vetran squad, they are blood angels and they do have jump packs, as such they do get decent of angels.

 

Check out - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=196697 for more info.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Vets deep striking has generally been one of those talking points for quite a while and always a point for people who want to screw you over to point out however the general consensus (though it was no FAQ'd) is that the jump pack rule over writes the clearly missing entry from the vetran squad, they are blood angels and they do have jump packs, as such they do get decent of angels.

 

Check out - http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=196697 for more info.

 

Yup, he´s right. I´ve met 20 Blood Angel players in our local store since the codex hit, and 18 of them said that Vets and HG don´t get the DoA rule. Sometimes, I have the impression that some people don´t even read their codex...

 

 

Snorri

[Leonaides]

Obviously they're the kind of people who might point out that the line "...a Blood Angel Model with a jump pack has the Descent of Angels special rule..." must of course only apply to a single model (so no unit can possibly use the rule). ;)

 

Sometimes an Exterminatussock is too good for people.

[Chaplain Gunzhard]

Well every member of a VV unit is still a Blood Angel model correct?

[JamesI]

As has been said several times, any BA with a jump pack has DoA.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

The vanguard veterans don't have the "Descent of Angels" special rule.

 

Sang Guard List

 

The Grim Toll

 

BA Lists 1k - 1.75k

 

These links, and the blog, should help in the answers you are seeking. I did some searching so you didn't have to.

 

You might have to get through alot of "blah", since the writer loves to ramble but its always useful.

 

I hope this helps you, as it has helped me.

They don't need it, as jump packs provide the rule.

The only reason RAS have the rule is because they're by default equipped with jump packs. VV don't get their packs 'til you upgrade them.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

About deep striking Dante with those Honor Guard. First you might want to consider attaching him to a squad of Sanguinary Guard and a Priest - the majority armor save is 2+ so anything AP3 or higher thrown your way is not a big deal. Youll only have to worry about demolisher cannons, plasma and melta. Second try to come behind a tank so when you pop it with the meltas if it's wrecked you'll have cover... Sure sometimes you'll destroy the tank, it certainly happens. If you can come in behind a tank squadron that's even better as you'll have the opportunity to create more cover.

 

If you stick with the Honor Guard as Dante's retinue then I suggest you kit them with stormshields. This is probably your best option as you can allocate low AP wounds to models with a stormshield. Use Dante to soak low AP wounds such as plasma that wont insta gib him... You'll get more mileage out of the unit.

 

0b :P

[Emperors Immortals]

All BA with JP's get DoA that includes Priests, CHappies and Astorath.

 

Also dotn forget Dante gives no scatter rule to his squad - i prefer to run him with a RAS as he makes up for any difference to the HG plus the HG or VV can Hit the tanks while the RAS does tranport.

[MaleOpener]

Page 62 of the BA codex, under "Jump Pack", states any model/squad with a jump pack gains the "Descent of Angels" special rule.

 

Just ignore my post from earlier.

[Saint Smiley]

Can i just thank everybody for your valued opinions.

 

I think its pretty clear that VV vets only roll one dice for scatter and to boost I now know the part of the codex to turn to when and if challanged. Great news, Game ON :)

 

As for Dante thanks for all your suggestions. I personally I like the idea of marching him up behind something and them leaping out for assult however when chosing this army list I wanted an all foot list after playing the last 18 month with mech guard. I guess I need to use terrain/cover better to start giving myself a chance and also choosing my tragets better by taking out the AP2 stuff as and when I come down to give feel no pain a chance.

 

Also I think the list will become a little more stable at slightly higher points value. I play a lot of 1500 points but have some higher value tournments coming up and this may give me the oppertunity to include more assult marine squads, and a larger sized VV squad.

 

Thanks all again