which chaos marines are still fighting the long war?

[minigun762]

It seems that many of the legions or warbands are either doing their own thing or the work of their patron god but who are still focused on the destruction of the imperium and continuing the heresy? My gut feeling is its mostly the black legion, word bearers and elements of the iron warriors and night lords.

[Legatus]

The Black Legion, the Iron Warriors and the Alpha Legion are still mainly fighting against the Imperium.

 

The Word Bearers, the Thousand Sons and the Death Guard are mainly doing whatever their deities are asking. In the case of the Word Bearers that may often include campaigns against the Imperium, but not neccessarily. The Thousand Sons and the Death Guard will still fight Imperials as well, of course, butu they could just as well target other factions.

 

The Night Lords, the World Eaters and the Emperor's Children are fighting whoever they come across or see as a viable target. Eldar or Tau victims are as good as humans, Orks are a bit less fun for the lack of a natural survival instinct or a sense of pain.

[Warsmith Aznable]

I just read Soul Hunter, and it seems to suggest that at least different factions of the Night Lords are still engaged in the Old War

Which apparently isn't that old for some of them, since the 10th Company has only perceived 100 years since the Siege of Terra due to some kind of Warp anomaly concerning their time flow

and that they at least acknowledge Abaddon as the rightful heir to the title of Warmaster.

[Lexington]

Depends, I think, on what you mean by "The Long War." Most Chaos Space Marines, from what we've seen, are still involved in military actions against the Imperial holdings in some form or another, but its relevance to a larger strategy of toppling the Imperium of Man is something that's difficult to discern overall, and probably is easier to answer on a case-by-case basis. Certainly more and more have been brought under the banner of Abbadon and his Black Legion in recent centuries, and elements from all of the Traitor Legions participated in the 13th Black Crusade.

[Lay]

All of them. Now, what the point of the Long War is, depends on the Legion.

 

The 2nd edition Codex states that despite their differences, all legions are united in their hatred against the Imperium.

It also features a story in which a Night Lord takes a moment to think about the Long War. To him, it's all about killing and the satisfaction he gets from it. He links the idea of the Long War being a "galaxy-spanning bloody crusade for the Dark Gods" to "feeble-minded" beings like Khorne Berzerkers.

 

I don't think that there's any fluff where one of the Legions is somehow excluded from the Long War. Since the Chaos Gods want to rule the material universe as much as the warp, even the God aligned Legions are constantly fighting the Imperium.

[Brother Nihm]

The Night Lords are fighting whoever they come across or see as a viable target.

Mostly, there are a few exceptions to this, most notably Medusa V, the EoT campaign, the Hand of Night/Heart of Darkness story line, the Gothic War and recently, the assault on Crythe and Villamus. In all of these they either teamed up or was "hired" to do what they do best.

 

All of them. Now, what the point of the Long War is, depends on the Legion.

 

The 2nd edition Codex states that despite their differences, all legions are united in their hatred against the Imperium.

It also features a story in which a Night Lord takes a moment to think about the Long War. To him, it it's all about killing and the satisfaction he gets from it. He links the idea of the Long War being a "galaxy-spanning bloody crusade for the Dark Gods" to "feeble-minded" beings like Khorne Berzerkers.

 

I don't think that there's any fluff where one of the Legions is somehow excluded from the Long War. Since the Chaos Gods want to rule the material universe as much as the warp, even the God aligned Legions are constantly fighting the Imperium.

Well put,

I too think that they all are, in varying degrees.

 

Though I feel that some of this is missing in the new fluff, a much more solid and encompassing connection that ties all the disparate traitor marines together as one group or faction (and I don't mean the inter-legion wars, but when they unite as they are wont to do). What we have now is a few references to the times of the Heresy, half a page on the Long War (page 17) and very little else.

 

The older stuff went very far to tie it all together thematically (Let the Galaxy Burn) with all the short stories, battlereport short-stories that later turned into official fluff and page upon page of fluff, etc. It also made Chaos Space Marines seem like more of a threat to the Imperium.

[minigun762]

Very interesting. I only came upon chaos with this codex and the previous one as my main background sources but it does seem to be de emphasized in the this codex. Legions vs warbands aside, csms are portrayed more as raiders then as a serious threat.

[Warsmith Aznable]

Legions vs warbands aside, csms are portrayed more as raiders then as a serious threat.

 

I think this feeling definitely comes across in the C:CSM when looked at by itself. There is a emphasis put on the Red Corsairs, who are just sort of their own thing, and the Black Legion feels mostly like an excuse to mix and match cult units.

 

But in the context of the greater story these two units stand out as being representative of the greater threat that CSM pose. You've got a fluid situation around the Cadian Gate, and Abaddon has not been stopped. There's this feeling that the galaxy has a second or two to get it's breath before the situation develops further, but it IS developing further. And while all that is going on, and the Imperium IS facing it bravely, they've got all kinds of problems popping up from behind in the form of their own chapters turning on them. So they've got the Black Legion before them and the Red Corsairs (and all the warbands and traitor chapters like them) popping up inside of them, and different Traitor Legions that may or may not appear from the Warp for their own inscrutable ends at any given time.

 

This leads me to believe that the emphasis was put on the Black Legion and the Red Corsairs in reference to the above idea, (and also to open up the possibilities to players for building armies they liked) but that it just didn't come across as clearly as it could have.

[minigun762]

I feel like I'm getting more and more annoyed by how Chaos Marines are coming across. :)

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

I feel like I'm getting more and more annoyed by how Chaos Marines are coming across. ^_^

 

Other Codices got revamps; Chaos got betrayed. The evidence has always been there. :)

[minigun762]

I feel like I'm getting more and more annoyed by how Chaos Marines are coming across. ^_^

 

Other Codices got revamps; Chaos got betrayed. The evidence has always been there. :)

 

I'm really feeling like Chaos is taking a backseat to Necron/Tyranid and Orks when it comes to the bad guys of the Imperium.

 

At this point, I feel like we're on the same level as Dark Eldar or Tau causing various pin pricks and annoyances which seems so small for us being the supposed Archenemy.

 

I know the Black Crusade/Cadian Gate battle is still raging but even that seems less significant then other elements or factions.

[Supreme Overlord]

I'm really feeling like Chaos is taking a backseat to Necron/Tyranid and Orks when it comes to the bad guys of the Imperium.

 

At this point, I feel like we're on the same level as Dark Eldar or Tau causing various pin pricks and annoyances which seems so small for us being the supposed Archenemy.

 

I could not agree more. Personally, I don't mind the new codex in terms of gameplay, but for the fluff, dargh...the fluff is one of the reasons CSMs are so freakin' awesome!

 

More on topic, the Chaos marines still fighting the long war really depends on the individual Marines. Each Legion is large enough to have those that seek personal gain, those that seek the destruction of the Imperium and those that seek the praise of the Dark Gods (and more reasons, too).

[Brother Ambroz]

The Word Bearers, the Thousand Sons and the Death Guard are mainly doing whatever their deities are asking. In the case of the Word Bearers that may often include campaigns against the Imperium, but not neccessarily. The Thousand Sons and the Death Guard will still fight Imperials as well, of course, butu they could just as well target other factions.

 

Where did you get your information about the Thousand Sons? Some may be doing whatever for the patron deity but Ahriman still hates the Imperium for betraying him. Sure he goes on random trips looking for the eldar black library but after finishing the thousand sons' book that is the gyst I got from it. As for the Night Lords it seems that those that follow the daemon princes are mostly doing what they want but the others such as Talos or Sahaal are still fighting the long war. The Word Bearers seem to follow whatever Abbadon tells them to do from what I've read in the WB books but it has been awhile since I've read them.

[minigun762]

I know you could argue that raiding the Imperium for supplies, slaves or other random goodies is still damaging it the same way as kill/maim/burning a world down for Khorne is a blow to the Imperium but I think the difference between these acts and those that I'm thinking of as fighting the long war is the objective.

 

Killing and raiding for the sake of killing and raiding isn't fighting the long war in my book. Only those Legions/warbands who are actively striving towards the Imperium's downfall are actually fighting the long war because the goal has remained the same, to tear down everything that the false Emperor made.

[nightlordsrock3564]

the way i see it, the night lords are still out there fighting the long war. as for the codex, i don't play so i don't know about legality and things, maybe you could use the new dark eldar codex and play as or something like that.

[minigun762]

I've noticed that there seems to be a distinct trend in the respective "power" or "importance" of the various Marine factions.

 

Note: I'm not saying this to start a fight or to bash any faction, just putting my 2 cents out there.

 

#1 = Ultramarines

#2 = Other Loyalist 1st founding Chapters (Imperial Fists, Raven Guard etc)

#3 = Original Chaos Traitor Legions

#4 = Non-1st founding Loyalist Chapters

#5 = Non-1st founding Renegade Chapters

 

In any match up between Loyalists and Traitors, the Traitor Marines just come across so much worse both in the quality of their depiction and their level of success or "badassery".

[Legatus]

Hm, I guess there may be tendencies, but probably mainly because of personal author biases, and not because of a purposeful agenda to have them ranked like that (except for the Ultramarines, maybe). Obviously first founding forces are more interresting than those of later foundings. And good guys will win more often than not. So I dion't think it is surprising, or "wrong". But I do can think of several instances where a "lower ranked" faction has bested a higher faction.

 

- The Alpha Legion (#3) have noted successes against the Space Wolves, White Scars (both #2) as well as the Ultramarines (#1) (even if through cheap ninja magic)

 

- The Iron Warriors (#3) have given the Imperial Fists (#2) a hard time during the Iron Cage incident

 

- The Flesh Tearers (#4) have given the Space Wolves (#2) a bloody nose

[the jeske]

arent flesh tearers a loyalist chapter or do you mean the first armagedon where most of the khorn army was made of demons and khorn forces lost there. they didnt even destroy the planet , so its not like its with cadia.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

arent flesh tearers a loyalist chapter or do you mean the first armagedon where most of the khorn army was made of demons and khorn forces lost there. they didnt even destroy the planet , so its not like its with cadia.

 

There's a blurb in the SW Codex that the Wolves and Tearers had a fight during a combined operation about a question of policy on exterminating people of questionable loyalty. Apparently, the Tearers considered the civilian population to be just as guilty as the traitors themselves; the Wolves disagreed and there was a bit of a battle about it.

[minigun762]

But I do can think of several instances where a "lower ranked" faction has bested a higher faction.

 

- The Alpha Legion (#3) have noted successes against the Space Wolves, White Scars (both #2) as well as the Ultramarines (#1) (even if through cheap ninja magic)

 

- The Iron Warriors (#3) have given the Imperial Fists (#2) a hard time during the Iron Cage incident

 

- The Flesh Tearers (#4) have given the Space Wolves (#2) a bloody nose

 

Fair points but if I'm not mistaken, those all occur during or shortly after the Heresy.

 

Since then, its been alot less impressive for Chaos in my mind. Hell even the damn bugs munched an Iron Warrior fortress planet with apparent ease.

 

I keep telling myself its just a case of new codex fluff creep and we've mostly had a bunch of Loyalist or Imperial releases recently.

[Legatus]

air points but if I'm not mistaken, those all occur during or shortly after the Heresy.

 

Since then, its been alot less impressive for Chaos in my mind.

The SW/FT run in happened in the current millennium. There is also the bit where the Red Corsairs (#5) capture a Space Wolves (#2) ship, including a few defectors. Obviously you are not going to read about how a loyalist Chapter got beaten by Chaos Marines in the Chapter's own Codex.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

air points but if I'm not mistaken, those all occur during or shortly after the Heresy.

 

Since then, its been alot less impressive for Chaos in my mind.

The SW/FT run in happened in the current millennium. There is also the bit where the Red Corsairs (#5) capture a Space Wolves (#2) ship, including a few defectors. Obviously you are not going to read about how a loyalist Chapter got beaten by Chaos Marines in the Chapter's own Codex.

 

That battle is mentioned in the SW Codex, on page 20. Apparently you can read about that Chapter's defeats in their own Codex, provided the author of said Codex bothered to write any in. :P

[Legatus]

Well, that episode is not made up as a defeat of the Space Wolves. The Wolves and the Flesh Tearers Chapter fight in the same campaign (and it's a Flesh Tearers operation that brings victory) and they have a clash afterwards, resulting in hundreds of casualties on both sides. So it looks more like a draw, unless you know a bit more about the Space Wolves and the Flesh Tearers Chapters. Namely their respective force strength.

[Khestra the Unbeheld]

Well, that episode is not made up as a defeat of the Space Wolves. The Wolves and the Flesh Tearers Chapter fight in the same campaign (and it's a Flesh Tearers operation that brings victory) and they have a clash afterwards, resulting in hundreds of casualties on both sides. So it looks more like a draw, unless you know a bit more about the Space Wolves and the Flesh Tearers Chapters. Namely their respective force strength.

 

Oh, I was referring to the Red Corsairs battle, not the Flesh Tearers one. Sorry for the confusion. :)

[Legatus]

Ah, yes. I forgot that the Codex Space Wolves mentions that as well. The bit in the Codex Space Wolves neglects to mention the defecting Space Wolves, though. The Codex Space Wolves also includes a bit where they have a clash with the Inquisition but eventually have to back down (p. 19, "The Daemonbane War"). One of the few things I liked about the Codex Space Wolves was that it was a bit more generous with negative events than you would usually expect. There is the Wolf Lord who discovers a lost civilication but upon finding out that they are xenos is never heard from again, and the Codex aludes to the Wolves' higher casualty rates in a few places (though that is mostly associated with Blood Claws).