Supreme Overlord Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Hello fellow followers of Chaos. So I'm going into a doubles tournament in two months time, and since I have almost no experience with Chaos Marines I decided to have a few practice games to get a feel for the army, and to try my list out. One of my warhammer buddies who also happens to be the same person I'm teaming up with in the tourney gave me three games with different armies, one against Black Templars, one against Guard, one against Necrons. Firstly, a quick overview of my list: -DP with wings, warptime -10 CSM, 2 plasmas, rhino, IoCG -10 CSM, 2 plasmas, rhino, IoCG -10 CSM, 2 meltas, rhino, IoCG, Champ with power weapon -Oblit -Oblit I posted this list on here a while ago and I was told it is fairly solid; similarily my gaming circle who had a look at the list said it was good as well. I have to admit, before I played the games I was worried I did not have enough models to survive an entire game, but I think this was just a side effect of exclusively playing Orks in 4th ed. :P Now then, a brief overview of what occured in each game (just the major events, it would take forever to write a full report), and some mental notes I made during each one. Bare in mind I can't remember what mission we were playing for each one, just the amount of objectives and deployment type, and that I won't be detailing each game in chronological order as in the heat of the moment, you forget exactly what turn things happen. Game 1: versing Black Templars, deploying tables edges, one objective in my zone, one in his. Enemy force has two 5 man teams with plasma cannons (which I was very, very scared of to say the least), a autocannon/heavy bolter predator, a 10 man assault squad, and two 10 man crusader squads (one with Emperor's Champion). -I took first turn and deployed out of cover, planning to move into cover that was further forward from my deployment zone on the first turn. My opponent rolled a 6 for seize inititiative. I will never count on always having the first turn ever again. :P -Extremely lucky nothing but a few shaken results on the rhinos. Thankyou 5th ed rules. -Oblit by itself on left flank did not roll any 3s or higher to get onto the building 2 turns in a row. It stood in the one spot the entire time it was alive, and since it could not see anything (which was the point of going on the building), it contributed nothing to the fight, save for a punchbag for the assault squad who took it out in turn 3. -Predator's autocannon took out one rhino, forcing the survivors to disembark. Crusader squad moved in for the kill, but in my turn I charged them instead of rapid firing (but took a few out with bolt pistols). This ensured I had the charge bonus and not the other way around--I wiped the enemy squad in one turn. The first tactical decision I made that actually did some good. This was the only combat the Aspiring Champion killed three enemies out of all the three games I played. -Second crusader squad multi-charges disembarked Chaos marines and the other rhino full of troops. Power fist Crusader destroys rhino, and the Emperor's Champion almost single handedly exterminates my CSMs. Next turn I rapid fire the enemy squad with the troops from the latest destroyed rhino (did not charge because of EC), who kill a couple of Imperials, but not enough to do anything. The crusaders then proceed to chop off all the Word Bearer's heads, and lose one Templar in the process. -Rhino squad moving up right flank annihilates one enemy plasma cannon squad from a single volley or rapid fire shots. I like plasma guns, very, very much. Except when they overheat. Which happened to the SAME marine all three games... -Enemy assault squad kills the other Oblit, but is then charged by my very angry Daemon Prince, who then slaughters them all (for Chaos, obviously) in two turns. I get slightly worried when the Emperor's Champion begins to hurtle down the table towards Illikthir the Soul Destroyer (I named my DP by the way). -In the last two turns, my Daemon Prince and the Emperor's Champion engage in an epic duel which results in the Prince dancing about with the EC's brutally removed head. The only rhino that is left barrels towards the enemy objective in a last attempt to get it's cargo there, but is destroyed before it makes it. The bailed-out squad does manage to kill four Crusaders though, but this was not enough, as the Templar squad managed to make it to my objective in time. The plasma cannon squad of Templars, who only killed 1 Chaos Marine all game, were in range of the Imperial objective. I lose by 2-0. Mental Notes: -Terrible deployment. Almost everything was on the other side of the table from the enemies objective. I have to remember to actually look where the objectives are next time. Also, my obliterators were standing about on their own, completely unsupported. They definitly cannot hold against entire enemy squads by themselves. I won't make this mistake again. -I split up my squads, attacking different targets, and diverting to other targets at the last moment. Decisiveness is key! -I had terrible luck with the Obliterator who tried to climb onto the building. If I rolled okay, he could have had two turns of Plasma Cannon goodness against the Imperials. -Close combat in 5th ed seems to be over very quickly, with a clear victor. 90% of the combats in this game were very one sided, with the losing side inflicting very few, if any, casualties. -Daemon Princes are monsters (literally!) in combat, and as this game shows, can potentially hold against most enemy units by themselves (and make a mockery of the combat process of Emperor's Champions). I won't do this unless I have to though, just in case I roll badly. -Only one plasma cannon shot managed to do anything, which was in turn one. All of my Obliterator Plasma Cannon rounds, and even all of the enemy Plasma Cannon rounds, did absolutely nothing the rest of the game. My opponent tells me they usually are one of the best weapons around, which by looking at their stats I can easily believe. Unlucky this game I guess! -I have started to see how rhinos are now very tough mobile bunkers, rather than the very easy-to-destroy mobile sheds they used to be in 4th ed (from my experience anyway). My expectation for rhinos to pop really easily is perhaps why I was so cautious with them, when I could have indeed won the game if I did a triple-rhino-bumrush through the centre. Game 2: Versing Imperial Guard, deploying table quarters, four objectives around the battlefield. Enemy force has two veteran squads in Chimeras, command squad in Chimera, three sentinels, a Valkyrie with three freakin' twin linked lascannons (i started to hug my rhinoes protectively at this point), and a Leman Russ with what looked like an assault cannon instead of a battle cannon. It wasnt an assault cannon to say the least. -This time I kept my rhinoes together. I decided to ignore the furthermost objective and concentrate on the other three. I planned to advance across each objective triple-rhino-bumrush style, dropping off a squad at each one along the way. -I moved into cover first turn, thankfully, and had a few stunned and shaken results on my rhinos. The stunned rhino did not move any further for the rest of the game, subsequently becoming immoblized and then destroyed. Daemon Prince took a wound from the Leman Russ, which I found out, to my dismay, shoots TWENTY shots a turn. TWENTY! -_- -Turn two was perhaps the best turn of the game for me. My unscathed rhino stormed forward, and both my oblits, who were in reserve, arrived and teleported next to the rhino (thanks to Icons and no scattering within 6"). One meltagun shot popped the command squad's rhino, killing two in the ensuing explosion. I decided to take a shot at the Valkyrie with the other meltagun, which I thought would do nothing, and destroyed the aircraft thanks to the twin-linked reroll. -The shaken rhino hurtled towards the Guardsmen who had occupied a building in front of the objectives. The enemy command squad was easily killed by the Chaos Marines who disembarked from the rhino near the oblits. -The shaken rhino's squad began to move towards the guardsmen, killing a few with rapid-fire shots (they were in cover though, so what could have been a great volley of shots did not do much). -A hail of lasgun and melta shots gunned down the forward Marine squad and the Obliterators. I think my opponent rolled about fifty shooting dice this turn, but what else can you expect from guard? -Towards the end of the game, my second Chaos squad slaughtered the Guardsmen in close combat, and hunkered down on the Valkyrie wreck which happened to be on an objective. -The Chaos marines from the destroyed rhino also hunkered down, but this time on the hill objective at the far side of the table. In an effort to stop my opponent's unscathed Chimera loaded with Guard Veterans from reaching any objectives, I moved my two survivng rhinos into the rightly-named Rhino Wall position. The enemy squad had nowhere near enough time to go around before the game ended. -The 20-Shots-A-Turn Russ killed all the Word Bearers on the Hill objective, except for one boltgunner, who did not run away and proceeded to hide behind a wall near the objective, out of sight. -In a desperate last move, the sentinels charged my other surviving Chaos Marines, who krak-grenaded one vehicle to its destruction. The game ended with two objectives contested, two unclaimed. A draw. Notes: -Deep-striking obliterators that destroy key enemy vehicles are fantastic. The surprised, confused and scared look on an opponents face afterwards is equally entertaining. -I am once again impressed by the amount of fire rhinos can absorb before they stop. -If I had not taken the valkyrie out so early on, I would have lost the game. All the rhinos would have been taken out one by one by the three twin-linked lascannons, and my Word Bearers would have to footslog to the objectives, getting shot at by that damn Leman Russ along the way. -Imperial Guard shoot so many shots a turn its scary. And this was a mechanized Guard list too, not a horde one! -Daemon Princes make good distractions, but can't take very much damage from powerful ranged attacks. -Chaos Marines attacking Guard in close combat is like a scythe attacking a field of wheat. -I timed my smoke-launching badly. My fear of the lascannons caused me to pop smoke too early, where I should have saved it for the turn afterwards. -Kills here and there from the Rhino's twinlinked bolters are nice little extras from a unit that is not designed to kill. -Never, EVER go out in the open against Guard unless you have to. Unfortunantly I don't have enough time to post the third game, but I'll do that later on. Until then feel free to make comments or suggestions, perhaps advice or tactical tips too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KANAKA Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Dunno what your points cap is, but yours is just over 1k. It's a good solid list, a bit standard except WT on the DP which is great, gotta love re-rolls. I noticed no "Marks" on the DP or squads, something to consider if your points allowance is flexible. I love OB's and use 3 in a squad, and always Deep Strike them, I try to target behind opponents heavy choices, 3 Lascannon shots makes for a bad day. I feel getting the first turn is a priority, ya gotta go for it. I also have a friend who 2 out of 3 times "Siezes the Initiative" from me. I use my Rhino's, all out first turn and pop smoke. I play against friends who have "Uber" Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Eldar armies, we play 2k points. Good luck to you, stay Chaotic..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Overlord Posted October 4, 2010 Author Share Posted October 4, 2010 Game 3: Versing Necrons in an 800 point game (not enough 'Crons for 1k points). Two Necron Warrior units and a squad of Immortals, lead by the Necron Lord with res orb and Veil of Darkness, or whatever that teleport thing is called. Game is Killpoints. -This game I only had two squads of CSMs. Both deployed behind a ruined building in their rhinos. One Obliterator in reserve for deep striking, the other next to the ruins. Prince behind the rhinos. -Necrons advanced methodically in a typical fashion, not within range of me in the first turn. Some hilarity ensued when the Lord and his Immortals scattered off the table with their Veil of Darkness jump. They were put into reserve. I was hoping for a first-turn killpoint! :lol: -My two rhinos smash through the ruins, luckily not rolling any 1s for dangerous terrain, and both squads dismount. A volley of fire leaves a third of on Warrior unit down, with a couple of them completely destroyed by the metlaguns and plasmas. Two Necrons from the further away squad are permantly laid to rest by a nice plasma cannon shot from the Obliterator. Nice to see Plasma Cannons actually work well when dice rolls arent horrible! -Second turn I recieve a few casualties from Necron fire. Immortals teleport in and blow the weapon off of one rhino. Deep striking obliterator teleports in and takes out a few robots with his plascannon. One Chaos squad assaults the closest Necron unit, the other rapid fires the Immortals, who are then charged by the Prince. -Prince knocks off two wounds from the Lord in the next few combats. He is nearly brought down so I bring the unoccupied Chaos marines squad into the combat. -I roll terribly, and although Immortals are brought down to one model, Chaos squad and DP are put to the sword (or gauss gun in this case). Even after a salvo from my others units, the Immortal and Necron Warriors run behind the ruins. -Fifth turn, we realize the Necron army is one model away from being 75% down, which means that all the Crons disappear and I win. I take out a Warrior and Immortal, who unluckily for me, both past their We'll Be Back roll. -The game is now down completely to luck. One more turn and I could win by destroying just one more Necron. However, a one is rolled to see if the game will continue, so my opponent wins thanks to some bad luck on my behalf. Notes: -I dislike when games come down to luck, but I guess I had a small victory in knowing I could, and should have won if the next-turn roll was different. -As my opponent pointed out after the game, I should not have split up my two Chaos Marine squads, and should have had them both focus on the same target until it was destroyed. -I might consider adding some dozer blades to my rhinos in future games to prevent mishaps from interfering with my "rhinos through the wall" move. And thats the three games I played. I have enjoyed my Word Bearers so far, hopefully I'll get a win soon! Dunno what your points cap is, but yours is just over 1k. Really? I'll have to go back and recalculate...I thought it was exactly 1000pts. :S It's a good solid list, a bit standard except WT on the DP which is great, gotta love re-rolls. It might seem a bit standard, but I thought it was one of the best lists I could come up with using purely Undivided units. But yes, those re-rolls made sure at least ten enemies did not survive over the three games when they should have. I noticed no "Marks" on the DP or squads, something to consider if your points allowance is flexible. Yeah I'm trying to keep everything either Undivided or not marked at all, just a personal restriction to keep with the Word Bearers theme. I am considering a single-God army after my 'Bearers are at 1500 points. Then I can make some unholy pacts for those games when my Undivided Marines need some Marked assistance. A couple of questions for those in the know. When I upgrade up to the 1500pts mark, I want to add in another Chaos Marine squad. Considering I already have two with double-plasma and one with double-melta, what build do you think would compliment what I already have nicely? Is it worth giving Rhinos extra armour, or even Daemonic Possession? The amount of Shaken and Stunned results I recieved was incredible, and a small addition like these could prevent any inconvenience. Any other comments or advice is welcome. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 When I upgrade up to the 1500pts mark, I want to add in another Chaos Marine squad. Considering I already have two with double-plasma and one with double-melta, what build do you think would compliment what I already have nicely? A 2x Melta/Fist/Rhino squad would be best. Lots of S8 attacks to insta-kill big nasties or shut down armor. Is it worth giving Rhinos extra armour, or even Daemonic Possession? The amount of Shaken and Stunned results I recieved was incredible, and a small addition like these could prevent any inconvenience. Never Possession, the only bonus it gives over E. Armor is the ability to shoot and frankly, paying 5 points for a degraded TL Bolter isn't worth it to me. I'm in the cheap Rhino camp for the most part so I'd rather spend those points on something else. I also think its less critical to be in a moving Rhino when your squads can rapid fire. Having said that, E. Armor can be a good buy if you have the points. Its really a game of balancing what you're going to have to take out for those points. @ 1500, after the 4th CSM squad, I would try to fit in 2 more Oblits, and maybe a Termicide squad if you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Hello fellow followers of Chaos. Illikthir the Soul Destroyer (I named my DP by the way). -In the last two turns, my Daemon Prince and the Emperor's Champion engage in an epic duel which results in the Prince dancing about with the EC's brutally removed head. Hello! Enjoyable read, and informative for a beginning player like myself. I like the "this is what I did and why, this is what happened and why" approach to battlefield reports, and the touch of humor is always welcome. I've got my own DP put together and can't wait to give him a go on the table top. I've faced down that partcular Leman Russ variant before as well, and it's not fun. "Scything down Guardsmen like wheat" in CC definitely makes up for it when you get there. Hail Illikithir the Soul Destroyer! :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Dave Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Sounds like you're not off to a bad start. You understand where you went wrong in a couple places, and while wins are great, it sure is good to learn from a loss. You pointed this out yourself to an extent, but with Chaos (and maybe with most of the power armor armies), there's kind of a Rule of 2 where unit support is concerned. Run two CSM squads near one another for fire/melee support. Keep your DP near a CSM squad so they can help out, have your Oblits both shoot at the same target to ensure more casualties, etc. You did get lucky in that IG game with solo Oblits, but generally, it's a better idea to team them up. This is also why it's a good idea to have redundancy in your list. The two plas squads are good. Have two melta squads when you go to the next point level, too. Then if you run anything like Defilers, or Vindis, etc. Have two, never just the one. Lots of people go double DP these days, too. There are, of course, exceptions to this, but I've found it's better to play it safe at first, then trim down where you can instead of the other way around. Your other big lesson was deployment. As suggested by the redundancy thing, it's best to deploy with that in mind. With Rhinos, place them so they can hug cover turn 1, then dart out onto the enemy turn 2 (with rapid-fire or a drive by in mind, then assault either from the opponent, or on your turn 3). DPs should follow behind Rhinos, or fly behind walls so they have cover until they can strike. Oblits should be deployed turn 1 perched in a building, or on a big hill. If nothing like that is available in your deployment zone, you can Deep Strike them just behind your troop line. This is all fairly simple stuff that should do you some good. Of course, during the course of a battle, your opponent will probably take away some of your tactics. Learning to react to that is really the big key to victory. That's something I'm still always trying to work on. I tend to act a bit hastily early game, and pay for it big time as things wind down. Fortunately, my Plague Marines are fairly forgiving of that. Good luck with the Word Bearers, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Overlord Posted October 5, 2010 Author Share Posted October 5, 2010 Thanks for the replies! A 2x Melta/Fist/Rhino squad would be best. Lots of S8 attacks to insta-kill big nasties or shut down armor. Yes I do indeed think an extra melta squad would work nicely. All up in these three games, my meltaguns inflicted more casualties than the plasma guns did...damn bad dice rolls. Never Possession, the only bonus it gives over E. Armor is the ability to shoot and frankly, paying 5 points for a degraded TL Bolter isn't worth it to me. I'm in the cheap Rhino camp for the most part so I'd rather spend those points on something else. I also think its less critical to be in a moving Rhino when your squads can rapid fire. Having said that, E. Armor can be a good buy if you have the points. Its really a game of balancing what you're going to have to take out for those points. I thought I had read about how Possession sucks...but yes, extra armour would be handy. But as with everything, I need to scrounge up the points first. Thanks for the advice. @ 1500, after the 4th CSM squad, I would try to fit in 2 more Oblits, and maybe a Termicide squad if you can. 4th CSM squad is definitly on the list. I still can't believe how powerful and flexible the most basic troop choice we have is. Hello! Enjoyable read, and informative for a beginning player like myself. I like the "this is what I did and why, this is what happened and why" approach to battlefield reports, and the touch of humor is always welcome. I've got my own DP put together and can't wait to give him a go on the table top. I've faced down that partcular Leman Russ variant before as well, and it's not fun. "Scything down Guardsmen like wheat" in CC definitely makes up for it when you get there. Thanks! Good to know it was informative to you, these games were certainly informative to me!. Yes its an unorthodox way to do a battle report, but since I had no pictures and was writing purely on memory, I thought it was the best way to go about it. And nothing wrong with a pinch of humour! Hail Illikithir the Soul Destroyer! Thats something I think I'll have to say more often to improve my dice rolls. By more often, I mean repetitively, every day. :D Sounds like you're not off to a bad start. You understand where you went wrong in a couple places, and while wins are great, it sure is good to learn from a loss. Yep, I agree. Wins are nice, but I find losses give more insight into how one can play better. You pointed this out yourself to an extent, but with Chaos (and maybe with most of the power armor armies), there's kind of a Rule of 2 where unit support is concerned. Run two CSM squads near one another for fire/melee support. Keep your DP near a CSM squad so they can help out, have your Oblits both shoot at the same target to ensure more casualties, etc. You did get lucky in that IG game with solo Oblits, but generally, it's a better idea to team them up. Yes, this is the main point my opponent (who will be my ally in a few months at a tourney) made to me after our games. I did get lucky with those bolits, but it didn;t really make up for all the bad luck I was having elsewhere! The destruction of the Valkyrie was very unexpected, and hilarious...for me at least. This is also why it's a good idea to have redundancy in your list. The two plas squads are good. Have two melta squads when you go to the next point level, too. Then if you run anything like Defilers, or Vindis, etc. Have two, never just the one. Lots of people go double DP these days, too. There are, of course, exceptions to this, but I've found it's better to play it safe at first, then trim down where you can instead of the other way around. Redundancy is good for me. It makes me less worried when I see my Chaos army is about a quarter the size of my old Ork force. :P Your other big lesson was deployment. As suggested by the redundancy thing, it's best to deploy with that in mind. With Rhinos, place them so they can hug cover turn 1, then dart out onto the enemy turn 2 (with rapid-fire or a drive by in mind, then assault either from the opponent, or on your turn 3). DPs should follow behind Rhinos, or fly behind walls so they have cover until they can strike. Oblits should be deployed turn 1 perched in a building, or on a big hill. If nothing like that is available in your deployment zone, you can Deep Strike them just behind your troop line. Yes, I learned how to deploy better very quickly after my first game (I was extremely lucky not to lose a rhino that first turn). I deep striked the oblits in the Guard game, because I figured the Imperials would target them first considering how easily they could take out the numerous Imperial vehicles. They did their job well by taking out the most threatening thing on the board in one fell swoop, but as expected, were cut down the very next turn by massed lasfire. This is all fairly simple stuff that should do you some good. Of course, during the course of a battle, your opponent will probably take away some of your tactics. Learning to react to that is really the big key to victory. That's something I'm still always trying to work on. I tend to act a bit hastily early game, and pay for it big time as things wind down. Fortunately, my Plague Marines are fairly forgiving of that. As they say, no battle plan survives contact with the enemy... Good luck with the Word Bearers, though. Thanks, and good luck to you spreading the "wonderful" gifts of Nurgle to the enemies of Chaos! Back onto some more needed list advice, after adding in a fourth squad of Chaos Marines (2 Meltas, Rhino, Fist, IoCG), I have 245 points left. I'm thinking of using it in a number of ways: 1: Defiler, another Obliterator, 20 points of upgrades leftover. 2: Vindicator, another Obliterator, 45 points og upgrades leftover. 3: Two Vindicators by dropping 5 points of other stuff. 4: Defiler and a small Termicide unit (melta or plas). I'm trying to add some sorely-needed pure firepower to my army. Which do you think would be best? (or add in a suggestion of your own) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpWhisper Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 I'm a big fan of Defilers for their flexibility and the range on their battlecannon, but also for the consternation they often cause my opponents - they always seem to over estimate what the Defiler is capable of, and my other units get a little less attention as a result. So I'd vote for the Defiler and Oblit, with two going into one squad and the third solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 Sounds like you're not off to a bad start. You understand where you went wrong in a couple places, and while wins are great, it sure is good to learn from a loss. If that were true, I'd be the von Manstein of Chaos by now. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--eFTy--> Posted October 9, 2010 Share Posted October 9, 2010 You have a decent prince, 4 good squads in rhinos and 2 obliterators. I'd say getting the 2 vindicators would be the best option. This results into a wall of steel you can drive at your enemy, saturating his front with armoured targets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Overlord Posted October 10, 2010 Author Share Posted October 10, 2010 I have to say, I'm leaning towards the two Vindicators a bit. An extra two tanks will increase the survivability of all my rhinos. In fact, the enemy wont be worrying about just the two vindicators, which are scary enough, but a Daemon Prince and two Obliterators too. Plus it will be handy to have two big pie plates to throw out each turn they are in range and operational. I'm a big fan of Defilers for their flexibility and the range on their battlecannon, but also for the consternation they often cause my opponents - they always seem to over estimate what the Defiler is capable of, and my other units get a little less attention as a result. So I'd vote for the Defiler and Oblit, with two going into one squad and the third solo. I have heard how Defilers are overestimated by non-Chaos players. You have a decent prince, 4 good squads in rhinos and 2 obliterators. I'd say getting the 2 vindicators would be the best option. This results into a wall of steel you can drive at your enemy, saturating his front with armoured targets Yes, precisely, thats six tanks in one army (four of which are filled with nasty Chaos Marines, and the other two are capable of blowing entire squads away in one turn), as well as a Prince and two Obliterators. Although I am leaning towards the Vindicator path, I will play a few practice games with "counts-as" units before I go out and buy the models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desecrater Posted October 10, 2010 Share Posted October 10, 2010 You have a decent prince, 4 good squads in rhinos and 2 obliterators. I'd say getting the 2 vindicators would be the best option. This results into a wall of steel you can drive at your enemy, saturating his front with armoured targets I run this exact configuration and have had much success. You can use the Vindi’s to give your Rhino’s cover during placement, and then race the Rhino’s ahead to pop smoke and give your Vindi’s cover for turn 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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