Baal Predator - Thoughts?

[syypher]

I've been using a Baal Predator for many games. I usually field 2x in 1k and 1.5k pt games. Played over 15 games with it. I equip them with TL AsC and HB Sponsoons.

 

So far my feelings on them is that they are quite good as shield walls but they never really make up their points nor make any impact on the battlefield vs anything really. Most of the people here play MEQ so the HBs usually do nothing very much and the TL AsC does what TL AsC does.

 

Now I'm not saying the TL AsC is bad but that's usually the only thing that really does anything with the Baal because the HBs usually don't pull their weight. (vs SM, SW, Chaos etc. anyways) So for 20 more pts over a Baal with HB Sponsoons I can get another Razorback with a TL AsC that also have 5 scoring units and a Melta. Which is a lot better IMO.

 

Am I equipping my Baals wrong? What are your thoughts?

 

I'm thinking of trying Flamestorm Cannon with no Sponsoons and just reserving the Baal Pred to come in from the sides and start burning stuff. However if my opponent is smart and spreads his units then I'm not even burning too many units and it's suicide with all the melta that any MEQ can get.

[Redfinger]

I just posted my mech list that i have yet to try in the list section, I am running to Baal at 2k, I have them only equipped w/ TLAC. My thoughts with them is a distraction unit because of the scout move. I dont forsee them doing alot, other than using them to make some decisions that my opponents dont really want to make, by using them as a screen as you have indicated it can give the rest of your army time to get into position. Personally I would drop the HB's and put those points elsewhere. It I am sure others who are more experienced with me could offer better advice, particularly if we had an idea of what else is in your list, maybe you dont have much synergy going on....Just some thoughts

 

Ashton

[Dark Legionnare]

I run a TWAC pred in almost all of my 1500 games. With a scout move it's a great way to get close to heavy weapons teams, or just normal infantry, melt the weaker troops with flamers, AC, or tank shock. But I did proxy a flamestorm cannon on it one game. Scout moved across the board, and I got first turn. So in my first turn it rolled up to a squad of 8 SM hiding behind a Rhino, and killed them all with one flamestorm shot. It was pretty awesome, although I felt really bad for my friend George after. They're great harass units and can be some really good glass cannons with flamestorms if you get them close.

[syypher]

So do most of you not put sponsoons then? I think their just a waste unless I'm fighting against Orc or something...

 

 

 

Here's my list for reference:

 

Librarian (Sang Shield, Blood Lance)

Assault Squad

Meltagun

Sgt: Power Fist

Transport: Razorback

TL Assault Cannons

 

Assault Squad

Meltagun

Sgt: Power Fist

Sanguinary Priest

Transport: Razorback

TL Assault Cannons

 

Assault Squad

Meltagun

Sgt: Power Fist

Transport: Razorback

TL Assault Cannons

 

Baal Predator

Heavy Bolter

 

Baal Predator

Heavy Bolter

[SamaNagol]

Scouting Baals with Flamers are great suicide units and can definitely wipe out whole squads. Scouting Baals with Assault cannon are good at popping vehicles from the side, but are far too expensive.

[lunchb0x]

Scouting Baals with Flamers are great suicide units and can definitely wipe out whole squads. Scouting Baals with Assault cannon are good at popping vehicles from the side, but are far too expensive.

 

 

This.

 

 

I bring a baal + flamestorm whenever i really can. Its a great distraction, fast moving, and that front armour :ermm: ...scouting it is the best. Several times I have been able to scout it on top of a dev squad or scout squad and burn them out. I have found that not taking sponsons really works well for me, instead I take a hunter killer and a storm bolter + extra armour...hey if i cant shoot I might as well ram something with that glorious 18" range! ...and that brings me to my other point...i have taken out several truks, rhinos, ect with ramming from the side...armour 13 plus moving over 12"= awesome.

[Hurrey]

Personaly I run two Baals with Assault cannons and heavy bolters in all my lists. All round lists really. Last game I played against my mates nids I took out a hive Flyrant and a Trygon prime in the first turn. Was quite lucky on the rolls and he was unlucky on the saves but the Baals sheer weight of fire were lynch pin to nailing those two units. I can't ever underestimate the sheer weight of dice from those two tanks cause failed saves.

 

H

[syypher]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll try running them with Flamestorm Cannons now as distractions/ kill me or I burn you up dead vehicles.

 

If you do a Flamestorm Cannon to a unit, is it necessary to burn as many units from THAT unit you chose before trying to do burns to other units? I choose unit A which is closer and can hit either 1 model or 2 models. If I choose to burn 1 model I can hit 4 from a unit behind them. If I choose to adjust the flame template to hit 2 models from the unit I can only hit that...2 models... Is it legal to choose the 1 model and burn a bunch from another unit? I was told at the shop I play at that I MUST adjust the template to burn as many from the first unit.

 

Sounds a little confusing but please ask if you need me to clarify more. This has come up quite a few times.

[lunchb0x]

Always go for the most kills with the baal...or go for whatever is going to annoy/disrupt your opponents plans the most...followed by what is the biggest threat to your army, not to the baal.

[Redo]

I tend to think that now that the new Codex has come out that my Baal is just a little too pricey for its effectiveness. They can easily get stunned or shaken and I find that the TLAC and HB whilst pumping out a lot of shots often fail to inflict enough wounds.

I have also recently lost my faith in the AC ability to take out vehicles. I am starting to lean torwards a Vindi as I find that there are a lot of tough enemies out there (wolves and nobs come to mind) The vindi can make these disappear in one hit.

 

Then again might just run my Redeemer. It is like a Baal Pred but toughter whilst transporting nasties like termies or DC.

[jsutter]

I prefer the Razorback w/ TLAC and the 5 man squad over the Baal. Then again I generally play 400-750 point games and need to stretch my points.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Thanks for the input guys. I'll try running them with Flamestorm Cannons now as distractions/ kill me or I burn you up dead vehicles.

 

If you do a Flamestorm Cannon to a unit, is it necessary to burn as many units from THAT unit you chose before trying to do burns to other units? I choose unit A which is closer and can hit either 1 model or 2 models. If I choose to burn 1 model I can hit 4 from a unit behind them. If I choose to adjust the flame template to hit 2 models from the unit I can only hit that...2 models... Is it legal to choose the 1 model and burn a bunch from another unit? I was told at the shop I play at that I MUST adjust the template to burn as many from the first unit.

 

Sounds a little confusing but please ask if you need me to clarify more. This has come up quite a few times.

You need to hit as many models as possible in the squad you fired at. You can't hit 4 models instead of 5 of the unit you targeted in order to hit 4 models instead of 1 in the unit next to them.

[Zeller]

I like to run my Baal with a Destructor. The autocannon will knock out light transports over the course of a few turns and then the two tanks move up with infantry to destroy the disembarked models. At 50% more in cost than my Destructors I'd opt for 2-3 destructors over 2 Baals every time. The Baal with TLAC and HB plus storm bolter could net me a Destructor and MM attack bike. That multiplied 3 times is 3 auto cannons, 3 MM for AT, and plenty of heavy bolters.

 

I'd vouch to send the Baal up a flank or from one with the TLAC and drive by as many light armor targets and rear shots as possible.

[bloodancient]

push them fast and hard at the enemy infantry if they pop they make one hell of a wall to get around and block true LoS. it can be a point waste but getting to the obj is what matters I like to throw them in every now and then but not all the time. I"m still trying some different things out.

[BigBaals]

I swore by Baals in our AdobeDex. I find myself using them less and less now. We have so many other options to deal with infantry and mech that the price increase of the Baal isn't so justified as I continue to playtest different units. However, Scout moves are fun and they make for a great distraction. Versus heavy horde armies, Baal all the way, but make sure you take at least 2. I'm not convinced that Baal is the only option for what you want it to do, whether it be anti-infantry, distraction, or (in a bind) anti-mech. It is sad because I used to absolutely love my Baals.. now I'm glad I magnetized them.

 

Final Verdict: Have all but dropped them from my successful lists

[Firedrake28]

So do most of you not put sponsoons then? I think their just a waste unless I'm fighting against Orc or something...

 

 

 

Here's my list for reference:

 

Librarian (Sang Shield, Blood Lance)

Assault Squad

Meltagun

Sgt: Power Fist

Transport: Razorback

TL Assault Cannons

 

Assault Squad

Meltagun

Sgt: Power Fist

Sanguinary Priest

Transport: Razorback

TL Assault Cannons

 

Assault Squad

Meltagun

Sgt: Power Fist

Transport: Razorback

TL Assault Cannons

 

Baal Predator

Heavy Bolter

 

Baal Predator

Heavy Bolter

 

The only thing I think you're doing wrong is expecting the Baal to tear through MEQ infantry. It's simply not going to happen in most cases - instead, try focusing the fire of both Baal Predators on a single unit and if possible adding in some shots from the Razorbacks too. Even MEQs won't survive that amount of firepower.

[Black_Sky]

In my current list, the extra anti infantry firepower the sponsons bring make the Baal worthwhile.

 

Also, it really depends on your meta game. The Baal is worth it if your opponents play eldar, guard, ork or tyranids. If most of you opponents play meq, go for the flamestorm or bikers.

[Joasht]

I asked something somewhat like this-ish a while back. I'm still not sold on them. But then again I'm quite a naysayer when it comes to armor, I used Jump Packs even back in 3rd when Rhino Rush was awesomely hot. I did play around with the Rhinos (and own quite a number of them) but I'm usually a bigger fan of infantry. Note I'm not saying vehicles suck (quite the opposite really, vehicles are quite good), its just that I personally like the dependability of being able to move 12" all the time.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...=210494&hl=

[Brother-Captain Devlonir]

You should also not forget that the HB sponsons also mean the Baal is destroyed less easilly. Usually, if all weapons are destroyed and the vehicle is immobilised it counts as wrecked, to add two more weapons for the enemy to destroy you reduce the chance of this happening.

 

I feel the Flamestorm is a move, fire and count as dead unit, while the TLAC+HB variant can be a pain well into the endgame of a match. Especially if you play the target saturation game and have 2 or more transports, 2 baals and an Auto/Las predator for the enemy to fire at.

 

So, the Baal is great when running MECH lists, but less good when he is one of too few tanks out there.

[Terrahawk]

You should also not forget that the HB sponsons also mean the Baal is destroyed less easilly. Usually, if all weapons are destroyed and the vehicle is immobilised it counts as wrecked, to add two more weapons for the enemy to destroy you reduce the chance of this happening.

 

I feel the Flamestorm is a move, fire and count as dead unit, while the TLAC+HB variant can be a pain well into the endgame of a match. Especially if you play the target saturation game and have 2 or more transports, 2 baals and an Auto/Las predator for the enemy to fire at.

 

So, the Baal is great when running MECH lists, but less good when he is one of too few tanks out there.

 

Yeah, agreed.

 

The Flamestorm Baal is more of a one-trick pony (even though the trick is good!), while the traditional Dakka Baal is more of an all-rounder. Also the sheer amount of shots it pumps out at decent strength will cause a nice amount of wounds even against MEQ, even though they get their saves.

 

I predict the Dakka Baal will become a lot more popular again if the Dark Eldar prove to be a success. Now against those soft armored wretches that thing is a monstrosity! And I'll keep running the Dakka version just for the fact that it's the coolest tank in WH40K. :D

[Jorre]

One of my favourite tactics is a Flamestorm Baal scout moving at the start of the game, used in conjunction with a Sternguard squad in a drop pod. This tactic really overwelms your enemies with shooty death! I usualy take a couple combi meltas on the sternguard and try pop a nasty transport then flamestorm the occupants with the Baal.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Putting flamer sponsons on a Flamestorm Baal - Pointless, right?

Increases cost *and* requires it to move 6" instead of 12 for full fire-effect, but it's a close-range vehicle so 6" is going to get it butchered.

 

What about a storm bolter?

[Zeller]

A storm bolter is a solid upgrade to the TLAC/HB Baal. Though at 10 points wait to see if you have those spare after writing the list. It's certainly not necessary but every extra shot helps.

[Mudpuppet]

It is sad because I used to absolutely love my Baals.. now I'm glad I magnetized them.

*Gulp* Sounds painful!

 

Mudpuppet

[nicolo]

I have been playing my baal in a lot of games, I have a wide variety of opponents, though lately they all seem to be going more and more towards meq, even still I have finally gotten over my crush on the flamestorm, and realized that it never kills its points. I always used it for the psychological fear it instilled, and everyone would focus fire it. So I'd zip up fry some things and then usually die, but give a free turn to all my other units to advance. However as was previously said it's a one trick pony, and if you play in the same group enough they all know what you are going to do and it's initial effect and payoff become drastically reduced. The TLasC has given me consistent payoff, while not an insta-fry, it's versatility and range allow me to still have a Psych-out on the table, zooming around the table, that the enemy has to deal with, but allows me to maneuver it a bit more strategically and extend its game life, and thus usefullness. Combined with the HB it provides enough fire that units, even MEQs, will fall under it. I don't play two, mainly because I don't yet have two, but I am currently playing it flanked by a 3x attack bike w/mm sqd joined by a sang priest on a bike. I have been recently following it up with a rhino loaded with a 10 man assault sqd w/2xmelta. I am finding this to be an effective vehicle hunting unit, as well as able to soften up an obj for my sqd to run into.