Deep striking LSS

[The Unknown Father]

Simple question but for me difficult to answer: can the scouts assault from a LSS in the same turn that it arrives by deep striking?

I´ve made this question to myself after seeing that in the drop pods it is specified that they can´t but the rulebook never says anything about deep striking transports

 

thanks in advance

[stinkenheim]

No, the models are assumed to have arrived via deep strike themselves. They may disembark and run or shoot as normal though.

 

C:BA also disallows assaults from LRs that have deep striked into play.

[Leonaides]

Yep, no assault after DS except playing planetstrike (which has specific rules which overrule the main rulebook), or using the Lucius Drop pod (which has specific rules overriding the main rulebook). (or maybe Daemons? - been a while since I played them so a bit rusty on their rules)

[Frosty the Pyro]

Yep, no assault after DS except playing planetstrike (which has specific rules which overrule the main rulebook), or using the Lucius Drop pod (which has specific rules overriding the main rulebook). (or maybe Daemons? - been a while since I played them so a bit rusty on their rules)

The deamons from codex chaos space marines may attack the turn they deap strike, those from codex chaos deamons may not. Vanguard vets with jumpacks may also attack on deepstrike assuming you declared the use of heroic intervention before rolling scatter. Ymargl genestealers may also, though what they do is not actualy deep-striking (lictors oddly enouph lost the ability). Unless there is a dark eldar unit I am unaware of I think that covers it all.

[KJQ]

To avoid confusion you have to keep in mind the rule that keeps troops from assaulting after deep striking in a vehicle is not that they themselves are considered to have used deep strike (like assault marines, vanguard veterans or terminators without a vehicle do), but that the vehicle that they are in has moved in the movement phase (i.e. considered to have moved at cruising speed). In that case, according to the disembarking rules the unit can disembark and shoot, but not assault. Since the LSS is a deep strike vehicle but is not an assault vehicle, the scouts can't assault on the entry turn. In theory, if a LRC could deep strike (it can't), the troops it carried could assault. The only deep strike & assault vehicle at present I'm aware of for space marines is the new Caestus Assault Ram. You can deep strike a squad of say termies with an IC HQ with this vehicle, then have them disembark and assault the entry turn (which is exactly why I bought one :-)

[Grey Mage]

To avoid confusion you have to keep in mind the rule that keeps troops from assaulting after deep striking in a vehicle is not that they themselves are considered to have used deep strike (like assault marines, vanguard veterans or terminators without a vehicle do), but that the vehicle that they are in has moved in the movement phase (i.e. considered to have moved at cruising speed). In that case, according to the disembarking rules the unit can disembark and shoot, but not assault. Since the LSS is a deep strike vehicle but is not an assault vehicle, the scouts can't assault on the entry turn. In theory, if a LRC could deep strike (it can't), the troops it carried could assault. The only deep strike & assault vehicle at present I'm aware of for space marines is the new Caestus Assault Ram. You can deep strike a squad of say termies with an IC HQ with this vehicle, then have them disembark and assault the entry turn (which is exactly why I bought one :-)

Actually, according to GWs DA FAQ, units in a transport that has deepstruck do indeed count as having deepstruck themselves.

[Leonaides]

and blood angels can deep strike a landraider. Still cant charge out of it though...

[thade]

To avoid confusion you have to keep in mind the rule that keeps troops from assaulting after deep striking in a vehicle is not that they themselves are considered to have used deep strike (like assault marines, vanguard veterans or terminators without a vehicle do), but that the vehicle that they are in has moved in the movement phase (i.e. considered to have moved at cruising speed).

 

Keep in mind that the LSS is an Assault vehicle (meaning your models may disembark and assault after the vehicle has moved, even though they count as moving) so your point here is alone not sufficient to preclude them from assaulting after DS.

 

The models DO count as having DS'ed; they may not assault.

 

Tactically speaking, there's almost no need for you to DS the LSS anyway. Between the Scout Move (Flat out, fast, skimmer) 24", First turn move (12"), disembark 2", and assault move 6", you have 44" (just shy of the width of the table) of an effective assault reach. Remember that it's a Skimmer and so can hop over intervening terrain and other models to get exactly where you want it. This also completely neglects deployment or infiltrate, either of which would effectively add even more (12" at least) to the effective first turn assault-threat range of the LSS. Doing it that way = pinpoint precision. Why would you DS it ever? Other than because it sounds cool (which I admit, it does). =)

[KJQ]

I stand corrected on a couple of my points, but not all. First, units deployed in Caestus Assault Ram may NOT assault after disembarking if the CAR entered by deep strike. That's explicitly stated in the rules for it. I have only used the CAR having started on the table, so missed the rule that precludes assaults after disembarks after DS - me bad. The same goes for standard Drop Pods. Second, the GW DA FAQ from 2008 does appear to state that troops in vehicles which deep strike are considered to have deep struck themselves. This alone would mean no assault for scouts in a LSS that deep strikes, but it's not the only reason.

 

@thade - A Landspeeder Storm is not an assault vehicle, at least not in the SMC. It has the "scout" and "deep strike" rules (only). To my knowledge the only vanilla marines vehicles that have the assault rule are the land raiders (and variants) and the new Caestus Assault Ram. I agree with your comments that DS doesn't make sense for this vehicle, at least with scouts in it. I once deployed it empty with a melta upgrade and used DS so I could blast an armored vehicle from the rear. I think the LSS should be an assault vehicle, because it means carrying 'shooty' scouts rather than CC armed scouts, which is why I wanted one. It's bad enough the LSS is also not a dedicated transport and so eats up an FA slot.

[thade]

KJQ, the LSS is open-topped. Refer to the BRB section on open-topped vehicles re: assaults. They can in fact assault post disembark whether the vehicle has moved that turn or not (provided it did not move flat out and they can legally disembark).

[KJQ]

@thade: Oh, man, I can't believe I missed that rule - and no opponent ever pointed it out :lol: Thanks for pointing that out. That changes my whole strategy for using the LSS.

[thade]

Happy to help, man. Show him the fury of 44" assault scouts!!! greatcrusade would be proud. ;)

[Jakobus]

So yes, if the LSS simply moves the scouts can disembark and assault due to the fact that the LSS is open-topped.

 

But the the LSS has no special rule to override the deepstrike rules so the scouts can not assault on the turn they arrive via Deepstrike.

 

The BRB notes that unless the transport that arrives via deepstrike clearly states that they can, a unit may not assault from Deepstrike

[thade]

So yes, if the LSS simply moves the scouts can disembark and assault due to the fact that the LSS is open-topped.

 

But the the LSS has no special rule to override the deepstrike rules so the scouts can not assault on the turn they arrive via Deepstrike.

 

The BRB notes that unless the transport that arrives via deepstrike clearly states that they can, a unit may not assault from Deepstrike

 

Sums it up nicely.

 

Again, I maintain there's no reason to DS a LSS...but that's a topic for Tactica.