WP, WG and Blood Claws in a LRC Question:

[Karack Blackstone]

Used the search function and didn't get anything relevant.

 

So, my question simply boils down to whether a WG leading Blood Claws should be armed with a pair of Wolf Claws (PA) or the normal BP and Fist.

 

The WP is kitted out separately, just to point it out.

 

Pros:

- Twin Wolf Claws will grant four power weapon hits on the charge, three in later turns. Will reroll to wound, as the WP grants Re-roll to hit against infantry in this case.

- Reroll to hit, and to wound will likely tear most anything apart, even if it's only two wounds caused per turn of combat, that's two to a squad that can't be singled out.

 

Cons:

- Can't shoot, and as one of the best shots in this proposed unit, that's saying something.

- Can't independently target to my knowledge, would help to know if he can, since the squad he attaches to likely is one fighting unit.

- Thankfully can't be targeted, but also can't be given easy access to invul save wargear. Termy armor doesn't seem worth the loss of another BC's attacks.

 

Overall:

WP x 1 w/ RA, WTN

WG x1 w/ pair Wolf Claws

BC x 14 w/ 1 PW

LRC x 1 w/ EA

---

Total: 668 with twin WC, 658 with Fist. Is this worth the ten points for extra troop killyness, or is the Fist the better all around weapon?

 

Final thought: This squad seems great at CC against enemy troops, but not that great against anything else. Seeing it get to its target doesn't seem like it could be that hard at first. Considering this, however, it's also likely that once it has been said as to what is inside it's pretty much toast without other targets. Also, there's the question of whether it's worth getting more than one of these, as too similar in loadout means unfluffy for HQ's according to our Codex.

 

If this is a tried and debated topic, just let me know. I'm only asking as I need to know which is better, a Fist and anything hunting, or a pair of WC's, each on the WG.

 

Too purposed to one task on the WC pair, yet it irks me to only get one fist, or even two, and attack six times one turn, and only three the next.

 

Edit: Had to reboot, but was able to get points values from army builder at least.

[narf]

Personally i'd add TDA alongside a chainfist and a combi weapon for the WG.

 

As the unit itself is good aainst infantry, with the addition of the WP, the set up above will provide you a way to take out dread's and otther nasty vehicles, along with things like wraithlords.

[Valerian]

Personally i'd add TDA alongside a chainfist and a combi weapon for the WG.

 

As the unit itself is good aainst infantry, with the addition of the WP, the set up above will provide you a way to take out dread's and otther nasty vehicles, along with things like wraithlords.

 

Yep, concur with narf. You'll be fine against 99% of infantry units that you slam into. However, if the enemy can lock you up with a Walker then you are screwed. Drop a Blood Claw to get yourself in TDA so that you can get yourself a Chain Fist. A Chain Fist is the best weapon against the one thing that you are vulnerable against. For just 5 mote points throw a Combi-Weapon on him, too.

 

Valerian

[altmann]

Or you could just... give your Wolf Priest a wolf tooth necklace and melta bombs. Hitting a dread in CC on 3+ with melta bombs helps you take care of that threat.

 

 

You're calculating your attacks wrong for the Wolf Guard, he'd get 5 attacks on the charge (+2 for being w/blood claws not regular +1). That's not a bad combo necesarrily.

 

-A

[Bobman]

You're calculating your attacks wrong for the Wolf Guard, he'd get 5 attacks on the charge (+2 for being w/blood claws not regular +1). That's not a bad combo necesarrily.

 

-A

 

WG wont get th +2 on the charge, that's just the BCs.

[altmann]

You're calculating your attacks wrong for the Wolf Guard, he'd get 5 attacks on the charge (+2 for being w/blood claws not regular +1). That's not a bad combo necesarrily.

 

-A

 

WG wont get th +2 on the charge, that's just the BCs.

Edit: you're right it's in the BC rule.

[Karack Blackstone]

A WG is not a BC, sadly, so they're stuck at +1 Atk same as the WP.

 

I would wager the attack difference would make a huge difference, but it's largely moot.

 

As far as the advice thus far, a Chainfist is the way to go? Hm, had that thought, but I'm going for a Tarpit anti-infantry unit.

[Grimtooth]

No TDA which would kill your sweeping advances.,

 

The WG can get a inv save via a storm shield.

 

Go with dual WC. His one BS4 shot is not going to make or break your assault.

 

Or plasma pistol/frost blade combo. You get a sr7 ap2 shot that might pop a light transport and the the bonus cc charge off at str t power weapons.

[Karack Blackstone]

He has one wound, and a PP could lose me the model before he gets to use that lovely FB in CC.

 

I will either give BP/FB or twin WC a try. Will have to see what I like by the next game more.

[Valerian]

A WG is not a BC, sadly, so they're stuck at +1 Atk same as the WP.

 

I would wager the attack difference would make a huge difference, but it's largely moot.

 

As far as the advice thus far, a Chainfist is the way to go? Hm, had that thought, but I'm going for a Tarpit anti-infantry unit.

 

Chain Fists kill infantry pretty well too.

[Karack Blackstone]

A WG is not a BC, sadly, so they're stuck at +1 Atk same as the WP.

 

I would wager the attack difference would make a huge difference, but it's largely moot.

 

As far as the advice thus far, a Chainfist is the way to go? Hm, had that thought, but I'm going for a Tarpit anti-infantry unit.

 

Chain Fists kill infantry pretty well too.

 

So what's the math on a Chainfist compared with twin Wolf Claws?

 

That I'm curious to see, since there's also one fewer BC's in the pack overall for the TDA model...

[slmellon]

I thought no TDA so no loss of sweeping advance...what about 2 fists, with the preferred infantry, youll need something for the big stuff, 4x PF attacks on the charge might do the trick, plus no loss of Sweepin A

[Karack Blackstone]

I think after thinking this out all I'm going to be interested in is Twin Fists or Twin WC's.

 

What's the math comparison with all the rerolls involved?

[WG Vrox]

I would suggest a WG in TDA with 2 PF, have your Wolf Priest take a Wolf Tooth Necklace and MB, this way you have some insurance in case you do get into it with a walker type. Reason I say this is wound allocation. Having so many models in one unit means a crazy amount of attacks happening at Int 4, a smart opponent will take the power weapon hits onto the same model.

 

Example your BC cause 11 wounds and your WP and WG with 2 WC cause a total of 4 power weapon wounds, lets say your foe has 10 models to assign wounds to, he is going to double stack the power weapon dice on 2 of the models instead of 4.

 

So take PF for you BC as their power weapon choice and take 2 PF for your WG then wounds suffered by these models will be a separate allocation at Int 1.

 

Vrox

[narf]

I have the strange feeling that the walkers Vs Grenades rule means that it doeasnt matter if you have the WTN you still need a 6 to hit an un immobilised walker in combat.

 

Simply because you are not testing to hit on WS, but on the specific walkers Vs Grenades result.

 

Also twin fists wont help against landraiders, and do poorly against armour 13 whilst a chainfist should mince it.

[WG Vrox]

IF you have a specialty unit that is designed to kill troop types, why would you want to attack a AV14 target? I can see getting trapped by a walker, but even this should be avoided by killing off the walker with ranged or the MM on the LRC.

 

You sacrifice efficiency if you want a all comers unit, but in that case you might as well run GH not BC. BC are designed to kill troops not high AV targets.

 

Vrox

[Thunderhawk3015]

Or you could just... give your Wolf Priest a wolf tooth necklace and melta bombs. Hitting a dread in CC on 3+ with melta bombs helps you take care of that threat.

 

You still need 6's to plant a melta on the dread. C:SW states you hit on the 3+ regardless of comparative WS. Under the entry for walkers and assaults in the BRB it states that unless the walker has been immobilized or stunned then you need a 6. Otherwise it goes to WS, at which point the 3+ will apply.

[WG Vrox]

You still need 6's to plant a melta on the dread. C:SW states you hit on the 3+ regardless of comparative WS. Under the entry for walkers and assaults in the BRB it states that unless the walker has been immobilized or stunned then you need a 6. Otherwise it goes to WS, at which point the 3+ will apply.

 

This is still in debate and an issue that has its own thread.

[Grey Mage]

Indeed, because while that would make sense, the very basic rule that Codex>Core Book means that its not valid. You hit on a 3+ RAW.

[Thunderhawk3015]

Except that in the rulebook it says "Grenades and melta bombs can be used against a walker. A model will only manage to score a hit against a walker on the roll of a 6." Please note, no reference to weapon skill here until the next line which includes the requirement of stunned/immobilized.

 

Wolf Tooth Necklace "In close combat , a model with a wolf tooth necklace always hits on a 3+ regardless of comparative weapon skill"

 

Now I'm sorry but I do not see any way to say that a wolf tooth necklace confers on a melta hit when in the rule for the necklace it says regardless of comparative weapon skill. Weapon skill is not even factored into the getting a hit with a grenade/melta untill the walker is stunned/immobilized per the sentence after the one previously quoted.

[Grey Mage]

Except that in the rulebook it says "Grenades and melta bombs can be used against a walker. A model will only manage to score a hit against a walker on the roll of a 6." Please note, no reference to weapon skill here until the next line which includes the requirement of stunned/immobilized.

 

Wolf Tooth Necklace "In close combat , a model with a wolf tooth necklace always hits on a 3+ regardless of comparative weapon skill"

 

Now I'm sorry but I do not see any way to say that a wolf tooth necklace confers on a melta hit when in the rule for the necklace it says regardless of comparative weapon skill. Weapon skill is not even factored into the getting a hit with a grenade/melta untill the walker is stunned/immobilized per the sentence after the one previously quoted.

Check it again- they reworded in the FAQ.

[Thunderhawk3015]

I see, someone at GW was drinking too much of our ale again.

 

I still say it requires a 6 since weapon skill is not used to determine the melta/grenade hit but if folks want to twist that then I say go for it just pray I never end up playing them.

[WG Vrox]

Just pray I never end up playing them.

 

Or what!!,,

 

A: You will roll the dice to determine the rule.

B: Walk away from the table without a game

or C: will you stalk them in the parking lot and use the dreaded dreadsock on them and their models for even suggesting the rule?